35 replies to this topic

[Egomane]

If it is done intentionally and the fine has to be applied after a checkup by support anyway, then why not give them a real punishment instead?

I fail to see what good this fine would bring.

[Vandul]

Heres the deal. If its a griefer doing the TK'ng, CBills are the least of their concerns.

[dubplate]

As others have said, how do you differentiate between an accidental and intentional TK? You mentioned an investigation. Unless support has improved they tend to be behind on tickets (back in Nov I waited over a week for a reply). I don't see the investigation part being worth it in return for the manpower. Yes being TKed sucks, but getting a rise out of you is the best thing intentional TKers can hope for. Brush it off and drop in another match. Also I'm pretty sure you can email support if you think someone is doing it intentionally, so at least support only has to review some cases not all of them.

[LordNothing]

DeadMetal89, on 18 March 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

It's a good idea, but the BIG problem with this proposal is how the game goes about distinguishing between accidental friendly fire, and unabashed team killing.

game developers (even really bad ones like pgi) know how to math. you simply log tk events and use the data to compute a per player tk rate. you can then plot the data on a bell curve. most of the players will fall in the middile of the curve. at one edge you will have super careful players that never tk (and these guys should get bonuses). on the other edge you will have identified blatant trolls. you then establish a threshold somewhere between average and maximum, and say thats the line, if your tk rate crosses that line you get a ban/fine/whatever (i think bans work better even though cbill denial is really nasty on the offender). you can also have proportional sentencing so that how far you go over the threshold indicates the severity of punishment.

once they have served their sentance, you set their tk rate at just below the threshold. this means they are being 'watched like a hawk' and any bad doings will really suck for them. they must then avoid tks like the plague so that their tk rate can be reduced so when they accidentally kill that stupid light that runs in front of the firing line, it wont force them a punishment. if you happen to have really bad luck that it happens right after your punishment has ended, then you probibly deserve it anyway.

but the question is can you game that system? and what happens if they do. if you make the tk rate time based, you simply troll a game, then wait a couple days and do it again. you cant do it repeatedly because you will get punished. if you make the tk rate game based, where you have to play 100 or so games before you can tk again to keep from being punished. either way you end up with the player having to play the game the right way and a lower incidence of those games will result in tks. you are never gonna make the troll not a troll but you can make things better for the rest of us. the troll has to spend a lot of time being good to be able to troll with impunity. the troll who doesnt want to play good at all is completely eliminated, especially if you stack punishments.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 March 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"or should I say proposal would be to level a 10 million C-Bill fine to any non-accidental friendly Mech kill upon reporting and investigation."

Consider that this will significantly increase the number of reports and investigations. Would you rather PGI hire an extra body to sort through it all, or would you rather they hire someone to fix bugs or make new maps or etc?

[Something Wrong]

There's been exactly one case I can think of where it was blatantly obvious to all that I was very deliberately TKed by a guy, who I got dropped with in several games back to back. He hated LRM boats so much that as soon as I said "HAI GAIZ I'M RUNNING LRM100 ON MY STALKER FOR LULZIES" he began a MASSIVE tirade about what he thought of me and then in front of the whole team literally blasted me apart component by component, leaving me with nothing but one stripped leg, my cored CT and my cockpit while typing endless abuse. This continued for 3 games in a row until I was no longer dropped with him.

Now I've been TKed quite a few times, including others I think are on purpose. And yet, I'd NEVER be able to prove any of them except the example above. Nice idea, but impossible to prove 99% of the time.

[Graugger]

Here's one for you. Get rid of the current 10,000 C-bill fine for TK and do (Friendly Damage Dealt) * 500 = Fine

So inflicting 120 damage on a teammate would equate to = 60,000 C-Bills.

If you team kill someone (that doesn't have the Backstabber title) by doing more than lets say 100 damage to that person you automatically get the title (Backstabber) for the next 20 matches. -.- This would make it known that you pretty much intentionally tk'd someone.

[Uncl Munkeh]

I have seen a purposeful TK in a while (other than one I committed on a knothead), but....

what if there is a way to sync drop with a buddy on a throw away account to increase his chance of being in a winning match.

Just saying, there are serial idiots, but some things are also on purpose for other reasons.

[badaa]

Kalimaster, on 18 March 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I would like to get other players opinions on this topic, including those of the Com Guard. Now please keep this thread civil---okay. Now the reason for this is because of an individual I reported for blasting my Mech. This team mate opened fire on my Mech because he wanted to give me something to shoot at when I was using LRM's in a match on Forest Colony.

My question, or should I say proposal would be to level a 10 million C-Bill fine to any non-accidental friendly Mech kill upon reporting and investigation. This would effect a players ability to use C-Bills, and continued killing of friendly Mechs would thus drain any C-Bill funds said player would have, including putting accounts into negative figures.

im with u to a point there should be a flat punishment for tking accident or not, 1 tk u lose all rewards for the match, 2 tk big

c-bill fine, after that ether lock you out of ur mechs or just ban.

[Helsbane]

If someone runs in front of my King Crab when I'm pounding an enemy with quad UACs, I'm sorry, but once they leave the barrel, those rounds are addressed 'to whom it may concern'. I had a target in mind for them, but if you wanted them that badly, eat all you want. I'll spend 10k and you'll get a lesson in range dynamics.

Now, those times when someone decides to hold me in place because they think I make great cover, I encourage them to back the f*ck up by gun clearing my six. If they fall over, again, it's a lesson in range dynamics. Stop humping my leg and you won't get shot.

[oldradagast]

One of very few times I encountered a team killer, I was the one who put him down like the rat he is.

So, should I suffer a 10 million cbill penalty for deliberately killing the guy who started circle-strafing me at the start of the match? Or, should I have ignored him, let him kill me (and everyone else) because we're not allowed to do anything to chowderheads like that until after the match when we report them?

Edited by oldradagast, 18 March 2015 - 04:15 PM.

[Tezcatli]

They should just up the C-bill loss from damage done to a teammate. It's one thing to accidentally clip a guy's arm. Another thing to be worthless madbro who guns down a teammate for asking people to watch their friendly fire. 30k Cbill lost should be the lowest penalty. And then work from there. If you act like scum and deal all the damage to a teammate. You should be fined 150K c-bills and get no earnings for the mach. For what can only be intentional team killing or someone testing out a ridiculously high alpha that a spider happens to walk into. But even in the latter, you shouldn't test your BS on live servers.

Edited by Tezcatli, 18 March 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[Unnatural Growth]

How about just enabling a "no friendly fire" mod on the TK'er for the first team kill, and have it stay active for 24 hrs. Also, I like the "backstabber" title change for their in game title on the FIRST TK. They also get "auto reported" to devs on the first TK.

Then the devs can look at the individual match in question and make their determination from there if the player needs banned or not.

[oldradagast]

OldOrgandonor, on 18 March 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

How about just enabling a "no friendly fire" mod on the TK'er for the first team kill, and have it stay active for 24 hrs. Also, I like the "backstabber" title change for their in game title on the FIRST TK. They also get "auto reported" to devs on the first TK.

Then the devs can look at the individual match in question and make their determination from there if the player needs banned or not.

So... I accidentally team kill somebody, and now everyone knows I'm a "backstabber," thus ostracizing me from others and making me the target of other team-killers? No.

Look, the system could be made very easy. Look at the number of team kills vs. the number of games played, or the ratio of damage dealt to team members vs. damage dealt to enemies. There's no need for absurd, heavy-handed tactics that punish people brutally for every team kill. I've killed team members accidentally about 3 or 4 times over the thousands of games I've played. That's not worth a 10 million dollar penalty, the title "backstabber," or any other such nonsense.

Finally, people seem to be forgetting that if the game automatically takes draconian measures against team killers, then the trolls and griefers will switch from team killing to forcing other players to accidentally team kill them - jumping in the way of weapons fire with mechs with no armor, etc. Other games have draconian and automatic punishments in play, and what I describe is EXACTLY what the worthless trolls in those games do.

[Unnatural Growth]

No friendly fire enabled for 24 hrs. Auto reporting to devs. On first TK.

How about that?

Or are you only interested in hyperbole and hysteria?

[Fonzie260]

Kalimaster, on 18 March 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I would like to get other players opinions on this topic, including those of the Com Guard. Now please keep this thread civil---okay. Now the reason for this is because of an individual I reported for blasting my Mech. This team mate opened fire on my Mech because he wanted to give me something to shoot at when I was using LRM's in a match on Forest Colony.

My question, or should I say proposal would be to level a 10 million C-Bill fine to any non-accidental friendly Mech kill upon reporting and investigation. This would effect a players ability to use C-Bills, and continued killing of friendly Mechs would thus drain any C-Bill funds said player would have, including putting accounts into negative figures.

I think it should pop up a message to the player that was killed and allow the Killed player to respond with revenge or forgive... if revenge is hit... it should cost a lot and I mean a lot of c-bills if forgive is hit then no harm no foul.

I have accidentally killed player on my team in the heat of battle and people moving around. That's why I say it should be an option.