173 replies to this topic

[Liquid Leopard]

Apocalypticoreo, on 20 March 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

It's funny because the Urbie will probably end up outclassing the Pretty Baby.

I could point my finger at the screen and say "bang" and it would outclass my Pretty Baby.

[Koniving]

Liquid Leopard, on 20 March 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

I could point my finger at the screen and say "bang" and it would outclass my Pretty Baby.

Especially after losing the 400% torso twist speed and "Flaw" of poor deceleration (which had the unintended side effect of allowing it to climb incredible slopes despite its 'movement archetype').

Danth Reduviid, on 20 March 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I'm looking forward to following an Atlas around shooting enemies while poking out from between it's legs.

As long as I can keep up with the Atlas!

An AC/20 Raven perched atop of an Atlas comes to mind. (Vid warning: Language.)

[Twilight Fenrir]

Koniving, on 20 March 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Executioner the tallest mech to exist up til 3065 at 14.4 meters

I thought the Annihilator was the tallest mech? But, I don't really remember where I got this from ^^;

Also... Where'd those pictures of the Spider with the foot-soldiers come from? o.o

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 20 March 2015 - 07:46 PM.

[Koniving]

Twilight Fenrir, on 20 March 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

I thought the Annihilator was the tallest mech? But, I don't really remember where I got this from ^^;

Also... Where'd those pictures of the Spider with the foot-soldiers come from? o.o

Crysis Engine.
Haruko's MWO assets thread.

Far as Annihilator...
Its history is ~loaded~ with conflicts on Sarna. It needs some serious cleanup. Sarna says its production year is 3048, but built originally in the Amaris civil war (2700s or 2800s; one of the two), but also says it isn't disseminated into IS until the Jihad (3067) and thus few would even know about it. There's mention on Sarna's entry of Wolf's Dragoons of going deep space from Clan territory in 3009 in which they took lots of Annihilators with them (who knows what for) which "added to their mystique and mystery to their origins." Really? C'mon, really?

Hang on, lemme dig out the books. Wolf's Dragoons (1989) and Mercenary's Handbook 3055. Gotta find the damn thing somewhere, right? Gimme a bit. Dunno why this sounds like it's got Wiz Kids or 1999 all over it...

Found it. No references or comparisons for height.

Thing looks more squat and stocky/girthy than tall. According to ~This~ version of the thing, it was never known to be more than a design of the old Star League, and 'appeared' in the ranks of the Dragoons in 3009. Its heavily armored nature is significantly inferior to the Atlas, kinda muting the point aside from the massive firepower. Gotta say that art is a lot better than the TRO-style art Sarna has.

Typically excessive height is reserved for especially fast mechs. Though if you find something that states its height to be larger than 14.4 meters, I'm happy to stop pointing at the Executioner for tallest mech until 3065. (Do note that this is including the Behemoth, which while gigantic in girth is actually not all that big in height).

Edited by Koniving, 20 March 2015 - 09:09 PM.

[Koniving]

Back on topic, yet again... With a release date of April 7th, no doubt its in testing by now (I mean there's screenshots of it in game).

Any chance we'll get to see the special geometry version soon?

From the artwork aside from the paintjob I can't tell the difference and I'm figuring that is because the special stuff hasn't been done yet. (And I do hope it's more than bar cages; I find bar cages around the cockpit and blocking the view to be troublesome to say the least).

[timaeus]

The sarna page lists the ANH-2A as the primary variant, but it's the ANH-1A that was actually brought in from resupply by the Wolf's Dragoons once they were done with their first mercenary contract within the Innersphere.

"Developed" means "designed" in the context of the fluff in the Sarna artical (So designed but not implemented in 2779-80 for the ANH-1X), and exclusive mean only in use by the Wolf's Dragoons not that few would know about it. Once it hit jihad era that is when the Dragoons gave rights to production to Arc-Royal to make it available to for general IS consumption.

2779-2780: Designed but not produced.
~2784-2834: Timeframe for production to discontinued use by the clans. (Exodus to Nicholas Kerensky's death for estimated time)
3009: Wolf's Dragoons after finishing their first mercenary contract resupply in deep space and bring back some ANH-1A mechs.
~3067 onward: Wolf's Dragoons give rights to produce Annilators to Arc-Royal so they can be manufactured for use by more IS militairys than just the Drogoons.

All right there and logical, though a few dates do need to be looked up/estimated.

For the actual height of the Annilator the only source I can find at the moment stating it's height is MW3 which has it as 17m, but that can be dubious since it's not an officially canon product. Ofcourse, hasn't there been a canical height range revision at some point in table top for other mechs that have been actually given a canon height?


The urbanmech looks good and seems like it will fit in with rest of the mech. It's going to be a pain to hit point blank in tall mechs, but that will be nice with doing firing lines and the little guy runs (slowly trundles?) in front of you.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

[Edmar Fecler]

[Twilight Fenrir]

timaeus, on 20 March 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

The sarna page lists the ANH-2A as the primary variant, but it's the ANH-1A that was actually brought in from resupply by the Wolf's Dragoons once they were done with their first mercenary contract within the Innersphere.

"Developed" means "designed" in the context of the fluff in the Sarna artical (So designed but not implemented in 2779-80 for the ANH-1X), and exclusive mean only in use by the Wolf's Dragoons not that few would know about it. Once it hit jihad era that is when the Dragoons gave rights to production to Arc-Royal to make it available to for general IS consumption.

2779-2780: Designed but not produced.
~2784-2834: Timeframe for production to discontinued use by the clans. (Exodus to Nicholas Kerensky's death for estimated time)
3009: Wolf's Dragoons after finishing their first mercenary contract resupply in deep space and bring back some ANH-1A mechs.
~3067 onward: Wolf's Dragoons give rights to produce Annilators to Arc-Royal so they can be manufactured for use by more IS militairys than just the Drogoons.

All right there and logical, though a few dates do need to be looked up/estimated.

For the actual height of the Annilator the only source I can find at the moment stating it's height is MW3 which has it as 17m, but that can be dubious since it's not an officially canon product. Ofcourse, hasn't there been a canical height range revision at some point in table top for other mechs that have been actually given a canon height?


The urbanmech looks good and seems like it will fit in with rest of the mech. It's going to be a pain to hit point blank in tall mechs, but that will be nice with doing firing lines and the little guy runs (slowly trundles?) in front of you.

17 Meters is the figure I had in my head... So, I probably got it from MW3 MW3 was my first introduction to all things Battletech

But, if that's not an accurate representation, then I stand corrected!

[Coralld]

In regards to the Annihilator, all I know is this. If some how PGI manages to put it into game with out obsoleteing everything (Because IS FLD ACs) I say it should have Hero variant that comes stock with a Godzilla roar war horn... I mean, come on, its just begging for it!!

As for the Urbi, I shal name mine... Tim the World Eater.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Coralld, on 21 March 2015 - 08:43 AM, said:

In regards to the Annihilator, all I know is this. If some how PGI manages to put it into game with out obsoleteing everything (Because IS FLD ACs) I say it should have Hero variant that comes stock with a Godzilla roar war horn... I mean, come on, its just begging for it!!

As for the Urbi, I shal name mine... Tim the World Eater.

I think they aught to release the Annihilator... then let the clans have their normal Autocannons be like the IS. (The Ultras can stay the way they are) Because then the theoretically unstoppable Dire Wolf with 4 massive ACs will have a counterweight that balances it

There is an acceptable version of the Annihilator called "Gausszilla" which mounts 5 Gauss Rifles That should be the hero mech, and have your Godzilla warhorn


Also... this is all on-topic, for what is an Annihilator but a King Urbanmech?

[Coralld]

Twilight Fenrir, on 21 March 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

I think they aught to release the Annihilator... then let the clans have their normal Autocannons be like the IS. (The Ultras can stay the way they are) Because then the theoretically unstoppable Dire Wolf with 4 massive ACs will have a counterweight that balances it

There is an acceptable version of the Annihilator called "Gausszilla" which mounts 5 Gauss Rifles That should be the hero mech, and have your Godzilla warhorn


Also... this is all on-topic, for what is an Annihilator but a King Urbanmech?

I am not going into a debate about Clan ACs as this is not the place for it, suffice it to say I am against them being single shot like IS ones, but I have no problem in buffing them. So we can just leave it at that.

Yes, the Gauss-Zilla /Gauss-Inator should be the Hero Anni with the Godzilla War Horn.
I can see it now. *Quee the imagination wavyness effect.*
The Map is River City, the enemy team is advancing, suddenly, the Warhawk explodes into a fireball, and out of the smoke and rubble appears the Annihilator with its War Horn Roar.
The leader of the enemy team points and says: "GaussZilla's attacking!!" (mouth continues to move 3 full seconds) "We must Escape!!" (Mouth continues to move for another 10)...

No, the Annihilator isan't a king Urbi, that would be the Imp Assault mech.

Party Hard

[Twilight Fenrir]

Coralld, on 21 March 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

No, the Annihilator isan't a king Urbi, that would be the Imp Assault mech.

Party Hard

Is... that mech Disco-ing?

It certainly LOOKS like an Urbanmech... but it's comparatively fast, and doesn't have a single autocannon! While the Annihilator travels the same speed, and has the same weapons... just... more of them!

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 21 March 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Coralld]

Twilight Fenrir, on 21 March 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Is... that mech Disco-ing?

Play that funky music, Atlas...

Twilight Fenrir, on 21 March 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

It certainly LOOKS like an Urbanmech... but it's comparatively fast, and doesn't have a single autocannon! While the Annihilator travels the same speed, and has the same weapons... just... more of them!

Perhaps it doesn't have an AC and is actually a bit fast, but still, it looks way more like an Urbi. Think of it as the Urbi's big brother, simular but different.






Is it just me, or does the Imp look like it could fit in the anime show, Gurran Lagann?

[Koniving]

timaeus, on 20 March 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

Annihilator Sarna clarification

Thanks, that helps to explain it a bit. Still Sarna's page on it needs some cleaning/clarification; if that was the only source to go by it'd be confusing as heck. Also see below about height and revisions of such.

Twilight Fenrir, on 21 March 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

17 Meters is the figure I had in my head... So, I probably got it from MW3 MW3 was my first introduction to all things Battletech

But, if that's not an accurate representation, then I stand corrected!

You're fine, and that could be the reason.

On heights.

Spoiler

MWO puts the Atlas at 17.6 meters, some things put the Atlas (to make it imposing) up to 25 meters tall... though I think they lack a concept of height. At those sizes the canonical limitations of the Atlas (not enough internal space to even have a 20 tube LRM-20 as opposed to the 5 tube LRM-20 rapid-reload; need to yank out the SRM-6 to have the room for a 10-tube launcher that is split on either side of the CT to get a proper 20 tube system)... etc makes absolutely no sense.

The reason the original artwork of the Atlas had such a huge head is it was barely in the 13 meter tall range if even (Dire Wolf being 12.3, so I'm seriously wondering if perhaps 13 meters is a bit exaggerating it?), and it had to be large enough to either fit a pilot in the nose -- or in the case of the Atlas D-D(ual)C(ockpit) fit the pilot and commander at each eyeball and still have much of the 'head' count as the CT in terms of armor.

Keep in mind, this wheel is 9 meters tall. The MWO Commando is 9.7 meters tall, yet the BT one is typically 8 to 8.5 meters tall.



There are revisions to height every now and then.
However, comparing the FASA version to Wiz Kids to ??? to Catalyst Games... I prefer the FASA version. Reasons:

Spoiler

Aside from being the original creator of the series....

The explanation of ranges just fits better with FASA's version, which is small mechs. "While these weapons are still very potent well beyond these ranges, the likely hood of hitting something as small and fast as a Battlemech at such ranges is simply unlikely after the stated optimum."

Yes: 'Small, fast' mechs of varying height from slightly below 8 meters to slightly above 14 meters tall. (An Annihilator t 17 meters, 32 kph.. would have each step take nearly 2 or 3 seconds for a full stride or it would do lots of little baby steps, that is an awfully long time to be on a single foot in a machine that could easily be toppled over by 20 damage. It makes no feasible sense.)

Either long times on one foot, or...

...Yeah. Lots of tiny steps (but at slow speed).
(Random -- the spider in this one is awesome!)



FASA's artwork was generally terrible or derive from Studio Nue (FASA's better presented artists, who redesigned Japanese versions of BT. Sample of Hunchback and Enforcer), but in general the proportions felt right for the descriptions (as well as mechanically sound for online gameplay; Faster mechs are taller because longer strides are less stress on the actuators and Myomer muscular architecture, it also means faster mechs are of a large enough size to be possible to hit in an online environment with limited bandwidth without issue... There's a reason the Locust is much skinnier than the fat Flea in BT; the Locust's legs are twice as long and it's nearly twice as tall! Heavily armored mechs are much fatter, thicker, bulkier if short and thinner if exceptionally tall. Then there's the variations between mechs with and without torso twist, and noteworthy things in the art that compensate for these, such as the Locust's weight-free turret and the arms with only upper arm actuators -- that pivot left/right as well as flip front/back.)

Here's a good one for ya. (Another reason)

Spoiler

Its a detail that isn't really used, present or designed on newer Battletech stuff...
Look at the case of the extremely short BT Hunchback (almost the same height as a Commando but quite a bit thicker), you might notice it has a drum on the back.

Consider that the Hunchbacks all (with the exception of the 4SP) carry the ammo in the left torso. But, in fact, the ammo can't fit inside the Hunchback itself. So instead, it carries it in a drum.

The 4SP carries the ammo in the CT, where there is again no space inside the body. Notice the ammo drum has instead moved to the CT.




This artist either has the belt being pulled out... or kinda didn't comprehend the purpose of the drum. Judging by the scale of the belt, completely didn't comprehend the Drum's purpose (or the description of ACs).

Last side note, this Catalyst commissioned image depicts the Hunchback in the 10 meter to sub-10 meter height range. MWO's Hunchback is 13.6 meters tall, and MWO's Centurion is 14.7 meters tall.

Scary, isn't it?

Show me one 'newer' design that has that attention to detail. I'm really curious to know.

Edited by Koniving, 21 March 2015 - 11:27 AM.

[Aramoro999]

Twilight Fenrir, on 21 March 2015 - 09:55 AM, said:

Is... that mech Disco-ing?

It certainly LOOKS like an Urbanmech... but it's comparatively fast, and doesn't have a single autocannon! While the Annihilator travels the same speed, and has the same weapons... just... more of them!

the party is strong in this one

[Bloodweaver]

Koniving, on 20 March 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

Any chance we'll get to see the special geometry version soon?

From the artwork aside from the paintjob I can't tell the difference and I'm figuring that is because the special stuff hasn't been done yet. (And I do hope it's more than bar cages; I find bar cages around the cockpit and blocking the view to be troublesome to say the least).

You haven't seen this post yet?

[Koniving]

Bloodweaver, on 21 March 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

You haven't seen this post yet?

Thanks! I like it!

[Grendel408]

Just tossing this idea out there about those who bought the Collector's Pack of Urbies... they should also get a Classy 'Mech cockpit item for deeper immersion into piloting these walking turrets... just sayin'

Disclaimer: I didn't read the entire post before posting... I know, bad forum etiquette... please don't shoot me I've been drinking a bit tonight and had this awesome idea to share!

[TripleEhBeef]

It is GLORIOUS!