24 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Jman5, on 23 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

I actually think that objective-based combat favors premades more than pugs. You're increasing the difficulty, by requiring more complex coordination, scouting, and movement which favors the premade. The more simple the game mode, the less premade vs pug matters.

That said, I agree with you that skill gap is a major concern. It seems to me that the typical premade is usually a mile ahead of your typical pug team in terms of raw talent. I don't know if anything can, or even should be done.

The difference is that a pug team can"win on caps" but will never ever beat an organized team on focused fire. Ask any organized team; I've helped pugs win by taking gens and objectives. Never seen a pug team win counter attack vs a 12man.

The more complex the objectives the more room there is for pugs to pull off an upset.

[meteorol]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Never seen a pug team win counter attack vs a 12man.

I have seen it once, against a Davion 12man. Can't remember their name, it was something with O and M. They were horribly, horribly bad and lost.. 48:22 iirc. Bad builds on bad mechs, no focus fire, but alot of ranting over OP clan mechs you can't beat.

[MischiefSC]

meteorol, on 24 March 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

I have seen it once, against a Davion 12man. Can't remember their name, it was something with O and M. They were horribly, horribly bad and lost.. 48:22 iirc. Bad builds on bad mechs, no focus fire, but alot of ranting over OP clan mechs you can't beat.

Outliers will happen. I've pugbossed pug teams into wins against vastly superior teams by a good shell game before. Doesn't happen on skirmish/counter attack though.

[jeirhart]

MischiefSC, on 24 March 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Never seen a pug team win counter attack vs a 12man.

Oh? Then let us proceed to blow your mind:






Okay so yea I cheated a bit with these..

1. The first one has a small 4man group in it [PC] but they do not carry the game by any means.
2. The second game is actually an invasion won by base capture but my pure pug team (we were not grouped or on TS) would have won by Omega destroyed and most kills at 30 minutes if this had been Counter Attack mode.
3. Not a perfect 12 man on the enemy team but close. It is also invasion mode again but its a 48kill game so it might as well have been counter-attack

Edited by jeirhart, 25 March 2015 - 08:57 PM.

[Willard Phule]

Shiro Kell, on 21 March 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

This topic is being repeated from feature suggestions as I believe it relates to both forums:

Too many matches are spawn camps and/or objective rushes. How long will it take PGI to figure out that their formulae for CW is broken!?! Why does every match need to be a base defense/attack???

The way a planetary assault should work should be as follows:

1. Initial attacker drop - counter attack with mobile field base - attacker wins = progress to next phase. Defender wins = attacker pushed off world

2. If attacker wins all further combat should be skirmish. This would prevent objective rushes. In order to prevent spawn camping in this game mode, multiple random spawn points and/or much harder hits from dropships should be implemented. If the attacker wins enough drops to get to 99% control, move to step 3. If defender wins enough to get to 1% attacker control, move back to step 1.

3. At 99% attacker control, use a current attack/defense scenario. If attacker wins, planet is won. If defender wins move back to step 2 and follow guidelines. \

At all stages multiple random drop points and/or harder hitting drop ships should be used to avoid spawn camping from both sides.

THIS ISNT DIFFICULT! GET IT RIGHT!

I wonder if anyone bothered to mention that if you follow these guidelines, you kind of get the whole "quality of troop" thing that's been described in the Lore without even having to try.

Most of your initial drops are going to be done by the groups that are serious about CW. Fair enough, they're better at it. But after that, your PUGs (aka: second line or garrison troops) move in and do whatever they can to further the cause.