17 replies to this topic

[Bob Niac]

So.. In games there are units that are generally described as either min/max, situational, or just generally aren't appreciated right away. These units are sometimes healers or support, but often they are units that require a decent amount of skill and co-ordination.

A small example for *ahem* EVE Online. Eve has these ships called logistics cruisers, or Logi. See the thing with these ships is that 5 years ago .. no one flew them. No one wanted to craft them. But they are, for the most part, vastly unchanged today. They are support craft that are basically "Preists" or "Healers" or "Medics." They are specialized ships, because the way they are made increases the complexitiy and build costs of the original variant. However .. theses days Logi can make or break big fights. They are always prioity when forming up.

Long story short: Logi are cool, always have been, but they were not always understood, and thus not always used.

I like things like that. Where you have to work out how to use something becasue it .. it isn't normal. It bucks the trend and makes a fight REALLY interesting.

So ... why not try something that does that for Premium variants? What would you guys like to see that puts a 'Mech in a position to be used in a way that takes it out of its traditional role?

An assault mech that has jump jets and can snipe.. but has no armor because its all replaces with heat sinks?
A slow light / scout mech ... that has an EMP bomb that has to be set strategically because it takes out the light mech.
A heavy mech that is designed with a small loadout, becasue the electronics / sensor package is highly upgraded. (locked modules)

Any ideas, guys? I would love to see examples from the lore, or new examples that the community can come up with.

[Tenrai]

I do recall that an Atlas variant had a satalite uplink ability with the dish located on the head. It was designed as a CIC unit (Combat Information Center). I believe it was used for coordination of planitary assault units at the Planitary LZ (Landing Zone).

Edited by Tenrai, 01 July 2012 - 07:15 AM.

[Bob Niac]

So that could be applied loosely to the game .. hehe. Cool

[Adridos]

Bob Niac, on 01 July 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

An assault mech that has jump jets and can snipe.. but has no armor because its all replaces with heat sinks?
A slow light / scout mech ... that has an EMP bomb that has to be set strategically because it takes out the light mech.

Highlander and an Urbanmech, respectively (for teh most part, leaving out the no armor and EMP part).

[ManDaisy]

No premium varients with hardpoint not obtainable normally. Period. Your suggestion is especially dangerous to the game balance.

Edited by ManDaisy, 01 July 2012 - 08:24 AM.

[Bob Niac]

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

No premium varients with hardpoint not obtainable normally. Period. Your suggestion is especially dangerous to the game balance.

It was more of an example to get the ball rolling. I don't expect something uber. As a side note .. the scout thing would force power down the mech down for a very long time (when I was thinking about it)

[Dracol]

A heavy mech brawler loaded with a narc system. On paper, the tonnage required for it would be better spent on weapons or armor. On the field, when it unleashes its arsenal against a target at short range, the narc allows it to call in an artillary barrage. Just watch out for any splash damage.

[Reoh]

They're probably going to stick with canon equipment, and there's nothing for "healing armor" and no shields. The only thing close to these would be coolant pods (wildly unpopular, basically one shot burst cooling pods) and coolant trucks which were basically a truck with extra heatsinks to cool mechs down faster (not usable during battle situations because of the coolant hoses); also there's no vehicles in MWO.

[Uri Brauer]

Wrong way round - prototypes tend to look great on paper, but on the field they can turn out to be a Charger....

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Actually often in the MechLab you know and can affect your speed, weapons and armour. What you may not know and which can affect the playability of the mech are some of the other chassis variables. Thes include torso twist angle and speed, manouverability, acceleration etc. Often the only way you get to work these out is by playing different mechs and seeing how they perform.
These factors can mean the difference between sucess and failure of a loadout on a particular chassis, depending on playstyle. this can lead to some chassis beimg favoured over others, at least for particular builds. Profile, hitboxes etc will all have an effect.
The above are some of the reasons IMHO why some builds "on paper" seem good but turn out to not be so successful, or vice-versa.

[BlackAbbot]

I think having a slow, heavily armoured light mech with a huge ballistics hardpoint and jumpjets sounds like an awesome idea.

[Reoh]

BlackAbbot, on 03 July 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I think having a slow, heavily armoured light mech with a huge ballistics hardpoint and jumpjets sounds like an awesome idea.

The Panther takes that philosophy with a PPC instead, although the Hollander may become available in the not too distant future.

[BlackAbbot]

Hollander is from the 3055 TRO, so enjoy waiting until 2018. However, one mech is never gonna give you up.

[DerMaulwurf]

BlackAbbot, on 03 July 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

I think having a slow, heavily armoured light mech with a huge ballistics hardpoint and jumpjets sounds like an awesome idea.

The problem is that light mechs cannot be 'heavily armored'. Armor for lights maxes out at 7.5 tons (standard on a 35ton frame). The Hellbringer, which is commonly derided for having paper armor, (for a heavy) has 8 tons to give you a comparison.

You shouldn't load up ballistics on a light in any case (looking at you Hollander), because even the energy weapons that just make use of the 10 (double) heat sinks that come with the engine often weigh enough. And ballistics don't leave weight to make use of these.

Besides that the main reason for light frames is that you can make them fast without giant engines. If you don't want to build something fast, you can build it better on a heavier frame.

All in all, Battletech construction rules are quite constrained in this regard. There are things that just don't work with any reasonable efficiency.

[BlackAbbot]

I agree, it's silly to just have a single ballistic weapon on there. It makes much more sense to have jumpjets and a small laser as well to make proper use of those free heatsinks.

[Bob Niac]

cool. so there are .. interesting ideas for 'Mechs in canon already. can't wait to see if they get fleshed out.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Dracol, on 01 July 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

A heavy mech brawler loaded with a narc system. On paper, the tonnage required for it would be better spent on weapons or armor. On the field, when it unleashes its arsenal against a target at short range, the narc allows it to call in an artillary barrage. Just watch out for any splash damage.

Gonna have to nitpick here. Narc actually is a missile beacon system. Marks the 'Mech it hits as a target for all other missiles equipped to home in on it's signal, both LRM and SRM. Missiles of capable of homing in on that signal are more expensive that missiles of that same type, and function as regular, if expensive, missiles when there is no narc signal to home in on. Artillery missles from Arrow IV launchers and, while I doubt we'll ever see them, guided shells from traditional cannon artillery know as Copperheads require the target to be designated by a Target Aquisition Gear or TAG laser system. There are 'Mechs that mount the Arrow IV system the CPLT-C3 Catapult variant, OBK-M10 O-Bekemono and TDK-7KMA Thunder Hawk variant being notable Inner Sphere designs though the latter two did not see deployment until 3058. Also none of the Founders 'Mechs has any standard variants that come equipped with Narc so the point is a bit moot, but I wouldn't mind getting the CPLT-C3 Catapult as a Founders if they have the RVN-3L variant of the Raven available in game to mark targets. Though both have a 3050 deployment date so I doubt it.

And at the OP, there is an assault with jump jets, a massive ballistics weapon and massive missile weapons. It's callled a HGN-732 Highlander, which mounts a Gauss Rifle, an LRM 20, an SRM 6 and a pair of medium lasers as well as thick armor, 15.5 tons of it infact. Not a prototype by any means, but a proven and popular 'Mech to be sure. As to whether it will be there in release or not is yet to be seen, but I REALLY hope so. Reoh has the armed and armored slow light pegged, though the Urbanmech fits that bill too if you want ballistic. The Hollander light and the Charger assault are prime examples of "It looked good on paper." The Hussar would be 30 tons of fun even with tissue paper armor. If you must hope for special premium mechs hope for the EXT-4D Exterminator heavy and the SPR-5F Spector light mechs, both of which have the ever nasty Null Signature stealth system that makes them all but invisible to various sensor systems, including thermal, at the cost of heat build up while activated. As SLDF era mechs they would be available in theory, but the Exterminator never reentered production after the fall of the Star League and the last known operational ones as of 3049 are in the hands of the Com Guards, though the Spector did reenter production and saw limited deployment as early as 3048 with several large merc units and four production runs were completed by 3058.

[Bob Niac]

Nathan Foxbane, on 08 July 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

Gonna have to nitpick here. Narc actually is a missile beacon system. Marks the 'Mech it hits as a target for all other missiles equipped to home in on it's signal, both LRM and SRM. Missiles of capable of homing in on that signal are more expensive that missiles of that same type, and function as regular, if expensive, missiles when there is no narc signal to home in on. Artillery missles from Arrow IV launchers and, while I doubt we'll ever see them, guided shells from traditional cannon artillery know as Copperheads require the target to be designated by a Target Aquisition Gear or TAG laser system. There are 'Mechs that mount the Arrow IV system the CPLT-C3 Catapult variant, OBK-M10 O-Bekemono and TDK-7KMA Thunder Hawk variant being notable Inner Sphere designs though the latter two did not see deployment until 3058. Also none of the Founders 'Mechs has any standard variants that come equipped with Narc so the point is a bit moot, but I wouldn't mind getting the CPLT-C3 Catapult as a Founders if they have the RVN-3L variant of the Raven available in game to mark targets. Though both have a 3050 deployment date so I doubt it.

And at the OP, there is an assault with jump jets, a massive ballistics weapon and massive missile weapons. It's callled a HGN-732 Highlander, which mounts a Gauss Rifle, an LRM 20, an SRM 6 and a pair of medium lasers as well as thick armor, 15.5 tons of it infact. Not a prototype by any means, but a proven and popular 'Mech to be sure. As to whether it will be there in release or not is yet to be seen, but I REALLY hope so. Reoh has the armed and armored slow light pegged, though the Urbanmech fits that bill too if you want ballistic. The Hollander light and the Charger assault are prime examples of "It looked good on paper." The Hussar would be 30 tons of fun even with tissue paper armor. If you must hope for special premium mechs hope for the EXT-4D Exterminator heavy and the SPR-5F Spector light mechs, both of which have the ever nasty Null Signature stealth system that makes them all but invisible to various sensor systems, including thermal, at the cost of heat build up while activated. As SLDF era mechs they would be available in theory, but the Exterminator never reentered production after the fall of the Star League and the last known operational ones as of 3049 are in the hands of the Com Guards, though the Spector did reenter production and saw limited deployment as early as 3048 with several large merc units and four production runs were completed by 3058.

Heh .. yeah See stuff like this would be interesting. Limited run hulls that could be lottery or something. N c-bills nets you a ticket, or X F2P credits, etc.Or something. But yeah .. unique mechs all around and sound really cool.

If y'all havent guessed by now I am somewhat new to this. It's exciting to see how deep this goes. Played MW3 and never really got past that.