58 replies to this topic

[mxlm]

While it's true that large laser boating is something you mostly want to do with quirked heavies and assaults, note that the Wolverine 6K is a monster when kitted out with 3 LLs (and nothing else? I didn't pay that much attention to the build Krivvan and F I S S I O N were using).

Oh, general advice for new players: if you're solo, attacking is easier than defending. All attackers have to come from the same faction, so your odds of getting a partial premade are increased. In contrast, anyone can join a defense (well, if it's IS v Clans, anyway), which significantly increases the chances of getting a hodgepodge of people from four different factions who've never seen each other before and never will again.

I mean, the actual advice for solo players is stop playing CW, because it's going to be frustrating more often than not (not because git gud nub, but because there's no elo and no separation of groups from solo players, which is a recipe for pain). But if it's something you really want to do, be the attacker.

[Crasher2003]

mxlm, on 22 March 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

Larger lasers a much better choice for this situation (and is it really common for people to snipe with Mist Lynxes? And if it is, well, that's good for you; they're not contributing a lot doing that). If that's your concern, bring a Stalker. Actually, bring a Stalker anyway. Anything an LRM boat does, the stalker does better.

Get the Stalker, slap six large lasers on that and go to town. Forget LRM's. We never run a single one.

[Pat Kell]

Sanderson, I agree that herding PUGS can be frustrating and new players do often make easily avoidable mistakes. I guess the main point I was trying to get across that works for all skill level of players is to stick with the group. If 6 of you push forward and 6 stay back, you're going to get rolled. Try staying back just slightly in front of the 6 snipers and let them peck away at the enemy until they get in range, then pounce on them. Oh and I don't know if I fought 12 stalkers at the same time but those things are nasty and can fire hull down which is very deadly, I should know as that used to be my favorite mech and probably will be if we ever switch to IS (LIAO, be ready for us:)). I would hate to fight a 12 man stalker team on Boreal...but I suppose it can't be much worse then the 3xERPPC thunderwall that we used to have to fight through.

Oh, and FISSION=primary...all the time:) I have fought him and he is scary good. Only thing to do is get everyone to shoot him as soon as he is found, otherwise he will shred you're whole team.

Edited by Pat Kell, 23 March 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Pat Kell, on 23 March 2015 - 09:34 PM, said:

Sanderson, I agree that herding PUGS can be frustrating and new players do often make easily avoidable mistakes. I guess the main point I was trying to get across that works for all skill level of players is to stick with the group. If 6 of you push forward and 6 stay back, you're going to get rolled. Try staying back just slightly in front of the 6 snipers and let them peck away at the enemy until they get in range, then pounce on them. Oh and I don't know if I fought 12 stalkers at the same time but those things are nasty and can fire hull down which is very deadly, I should know as that used to be my favorite mech and probably will be if we ever switch to IS (LIAO, be ready for us:)). I would hate to fight a 12 man stalker team on Boreal...but I suppose it can't be much worse then the 3xERPPC thunderwall that we used to have to fight through.

Oh, and FISSION=primary...all the time:) I have fought him and he is scary good. Only thing to do is get everyone to shoot him as soon as he is found, otherwise he will shred you're whole team.

You're right. I'll try to block efforts from anyone attempting to make some highly-complex plan of "okay so 2 lances here 1 lance here to distract" with timing etc. If many PUGs can't manage to sack up and charge with 11 other people, how in God's name will they make some sort of advanced plan work?

Nah, man. Murderball for pugs.

[sycocys]

I highly doubt the pugs that can't grasp this concept will read this - but I didn't see:

PUSH WITH YOUR TEAM

on the list. You need to spread that damage out and absolutely never let the clanners focus fire on any mech without your team killing at least 1 and ct'ing another 1 or 2+ in return. If the guys brave enough to push the gate first die doing less than 300 damage and you are still standing outside the gate - 95% chance you just failed your push and a 75-80% chance you lost the match on the first push.

Just dropping with another faction and its unbelievable the difference between FRR pugs and the pugs other factions get. I honestly feel bad for the others. Also mad props to the FRR pugs who for the most part actually learned to play CW and work with a team.

[Richter Kerensky]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 22 March 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

Too many LRM boats is bad.
If your team lacks direct-fire mechs, it cannot punch through or defend against a 12-man Timberwolves/Hellbringers push that closes within 180m.

But zero LRM boats is also bad.
It is common to encounter a lot of campers using cover and hilltop mist lynxes with ERLLs.
Zero LRM boats means your team cannot take these out and will keep losing mechs with no kills in exchange.

This is false. If defending, and being lurmed, just hide and force enemy to come in. If attacking and being lurmed, move forward and kill lurmer. If you bring lurm yourself, you are one less useful mech on attack or defense and will be destroyed by any kind of pressure. Bring mechs with large lasers or er large lasers and you will win trades with lrms.

[Sonny Black]

Thanks To All

[Strykewolf]

Good info for folks to keep in mind.

[DaFrog]

I disagree with a lot of these advices. I love lrms. I do pretty good with them in CW, but I rely on myself to get my locks.

first mech is a throaway, so pick a mech with hi alphas and a glass jaw, or a aspeedy annoyance.

middle 2 mechs carry the fight.

and I love cool shots, works great for those alphas.

Edited by DaFrog, 27 March 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[Richter Kerensky]

LRMs are the least effective weapon in the game against an organized group of players, and the first mech is not a throwaway mech.

mxlm, on 23 March 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

While it's true that large laser boating is something you mostly want to do with quirked heavies and assaults, note that the Wolverine 6K is a monster when kitted out with 3 LLs (and nothing else? I didn't pay that much attention to the build Krivvan and F I S S I O N were using).

Oh, general advice for new players: if you're solo, attacking is easier than defending. All attackers have to come from the same faction, so your odds of getting a partial premade are increased. In contrast, anyone can join a defense (well, if it's IS v Clans, anyway), which significantly increases the chances of getting a hodgepodge of people from four different factions who've never seen each other before and never will again.

I mean, the actual advice for solo players is stop playing CW, because it's going to be frustrating more often than not (not because git gud nub, but because there's no elo and no separation of groups from solo players, which is a recipe for pain). But if it's something you really want to do, be the attacker.

You can actually slap 4 LLs on a WVR-6K and it doesn't run that hot even when you alpha with it.

[Pat Kell]

I can understand why people think LRM's are good but if you are able to hit with other weapons, you should take those. LRM's can force mechs to hide in order to get away from the rain but it spreads the damage so much that your high damage numbers are deceptive. Direct fire weapons, if you can hit, will always be more effective. Getting your own locks is the best way to play with LRM's if you insist on taking them that's for sure, that way artemis and Tag will have an impact on spread and total numbers hitting. I know that when I face a heavy LRM team that I am going to win because it is so easy to find cover from LRMs on most maps...Caustic is a nightmare though lol. Even Alpine can be ok if you stick near cover until you determine the make up of the enemy. In general, you will be more helpful to your team if you don't take any LRM's or at most, maybe a 5 pack just to get people to duck into cover. Even that's debatable as I want the enemy to be confident enough to stand out in the open so I can shoot them .

Edited by Pat Kell, 27 March 2015 - 09:53 PM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

I think we could reach a consensus that too many LRM-equipped mechs are bad of course, but also that a single or two mechs equipped with LRMs can be very useful. I've seen Leeroy grab 2k damage with 4 LRM boats against 8-man teams or less. Of course against a competitive 12-man, they will gimp you. But this discussion is intended NOT to display the very best mechs, loadouts, and tactics.

This discussion is intended to improve ALL players' knowledge, mostly geared towards newer players of course. I have no intention of telling a player that they are forced to play in one specific way, when they can fare acceptably well with a more fun (to them), but less effective loadout.

I've been running a wolverine with 2LL, 3ML, and Narc w/ 24 shots. I tend to get around 500 damage with it, which is acceptable for a mech of its size, but the NARC has been amazing. You must understand that many people will NOT change their style of play to yours, so you must adapt or perform worse.

I also run a BLR-1s with 4LL and 2LRM5. I'm very rarely unable to do damage with the LRMs, which are amazing for this mech and my playstyle. Often when I peek a corner twice, the enemies will begin focusing me, since my damage is fairly high. I'm not going to trade armour like this; so I'll sit behind my small hill and pepper them with LRMs until I'm confident they are targetting somewhere else. It's all about firing upon enemies that are NOT firing on you in the peek game. A good average damage for this mech is 600-700, I'd say.

Basically, I run some mechs that are seen as poor, or with poor loadouts. Of course, I'm very well-versed in mech-building and everything BT, so I will equip my sub-standard mechs (isn't BLR-1S the worst in terms of tonnage-value ratio?) with what I feel are great loadouts. With practice, and proper thought, mechs that people love from lore, and from less-than-ideal playstyles will perform adequately.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 28 March 2015 - 12:40 AM.

[Ender EUG]

Thanks for all of the great info here, I am still learning the game and this has been one of the best sources of tips and tactics I have found yet, appreciate it!

[Leeroy Mechkins]

What's so good about an Assault mech?

I know there are many new players and also seasoned players who may not like Assault mechs because they are slow and big targets. Also, it is possible to get similar firepower in a heavy like a Thunderbolt or Jagermech. So why bother with Assaults?

The reason is they have high armor and can hold strategic positions for much longer than a heavy or medium can.
For example, C2 on Sulfuric and E6 on Boreal are important positions both to attackers and defenders.
12 Stalkers will hold these locations for much longer than 12 Thunderbolts would.
This means your team can reinforce these locations when mechs die, and this is a big advantage.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 30 March 2015 - 01:38 AM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 29 March 2015 - 11:41 PM, said:

What's so good about an Assault mech?

I know there are many new players and also seasoned players who may not like Assault mechs because they are slow and big targets. Also, it is possible to get similar firepower in a heavy like a Thunderbolt or Jagermech. So why bother with Assaults?

The reason is they have high armor and can hold strategic positions for much longer than a heavy or medium can.
For example, C2 on Sulfuric and E6 on Boreal are important positions both to attackers and defenders.
12 Stalkers will hold these locations for much longer than 12 Thunderbolts would.
This means your team can reinforce these locations when mechs die, and this is a big advantage.

Its worth noting that in order to take advantage of the increased armour of an assault mech, torso-twisting to avoid CT damage is very important. An assault and a heavy will both go down nearly as quick if they are simply getting cored. An assault will last longer than a heavy if they are torso-twisting effectively.

Also, assaults are good for shields! No, really! Say you're pushing against clans through a gate. They've got 6 or so mechs ready to alpha the hell out of you, and you're in a mech without much armour. You can use the assault just like cover, since they're so much slower than you! Think about how valuable a moving piece of cover is!

I've been in a FS9 at 33 percent before, with all weapons intact. ANY damage to ANY part of me was gonna remove that component. However, there were a couple assaults in the area. I was able to use my 5mpls to rack up about 200 more damage, at THIRTY THREE PERCENT! They couldn't hit me because I was so small and my friends were so big! I hid right behind the fatties, poking out for a single alpha at once.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 29 March 2015 - 11:57 PM.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

I used to find Assaults boring and slow.
But after a while, when its the 3rd or 4th wave and I'm still in my 1st mech I changed my mind!

The durability and survivability is fun.
You can be in the thick of the action more without having to respawn and regroup much.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 01 April 2015 - 06:19 PM.

[BlakNite]

Thanks for the info. This helps a lot.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

ATTACK MODE: INTERMEDIATE CONCEPTS

OK, I explained earlier the basics of Attack mode. Here are more advanced details that may be important.

First, OPEN GATES AND ENTER FAST!
Its very very bad to take a long time to open a gate or to delay entering.
The enemy will have plenty of time to gather 100% of their forces at that gate and cause many casualties.
If your team is taking 5 minutes to open the gate, GAME OVER.
Don't expect someone else to open the gate for you, if everyone does, the team is screwed.
Assaults move right up to the gate as soon as possible! Delay easily loses the whole wave.


Second, LIGHTS/MEDS/HEAVIES NEED TO GUARD REAR/SIDES AND PROTECT REINFORCEMENTS.
Over and over again in PUGs I see this weakness.
As the team is attacking, 100% face forward and die to fast raiders shooting the weak back armor.
Instead at least 2-3 lights/meds/heavies should continually check backwards and the sides for raiders.
Also, if slow reinforcements are joining the regroup, fast mechs should help protect them as they catch up.

Third, ASSAULTS FRONT, LIGHTS/MEDS/HEAVIES SIDES/REAR.
Assaults should be facing the direction of most fire to provide protection for the rest of the team.
Lights/Meds/Heavies don't block the firing line or movement of the Assaults, poke from sides and rear.
Lights/Meds/Heavies, its also good to use that speed to do some flanking as the Assaults move straight.

Fourth, LOOK AT THE TIME.
30 mins can run out quite fast!
I recommend that each wave of 12 mechs should destroy at least 1 gen even when playing Attrition style.
1st wave destroy 1-2 gens, 2nd 1-2 gens, 3rd and 4th destroy OMEGA is quite a comfortable strategy.
If your team is way up on kill score, with many enemy permadead, it may be fine to stick to attrition.
However If its 12 minutes left and the kill score is almost even, TIME TO GO TO GEN RUSH.
If there is less than 2 minutes left, stop shooting any mechs, just go straight for OMEGA.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 06 April 2015 - 01:07 AM.

[Sandersson Jankins]

If you're in a drop with a confident leading staff or single marshall, you should ask which mech to drop next when you die!

Otherwise you end up with a commander having a perfectly good strategy in his head, but both of you have screwed up and forgotten to coordinate it!

Sometimes if I get unluckily fragged as the first assault mech in, I will grab my FS9 to re-enter the fight very quickly. Sometimes that works; I don't know if I can RECOMMEND it as a first-line method.

However, asking your team lead or even team in general what to bring is good! Always before the first drop as well, do this! Know what your teammates will bring, and bring something supplemental.

This is the only way LRMs are really worth sneezing at, too! An LRM-dominant mech with a NARC buddy (Hey, I run NARC and I ask when LRMs are out! I get MAD NARC ASSISTS AND KILLS) is the only real way to be super-effective in CW with it. Anything else isn't utilizing your full potential as a missile carrier!

[MischiefSC]

Don't be afraid to get shot.

The enemy is going to be shooting at someone. A very powerful tool for success is spreading enemy damage among your team. When you take a 'long range support mech' (LRM boat, dedicated sniper, etc) you need to stay with your team anyway. If 1, 2, even 3 or more members of your team stay way back or 'out of sight' then what you're really doing is fighting 10 v 12 or even 8 v 12, just with a bit of a damage bonus. This means the enemy is able to swiftly focus-fire your team down. You need to stay up in the front and take your share of damage, letting everyone cycle up and back from the 'front of the line' to spread enemy damage evenly among your team.

If you look at the score sheet and see that you have more mechs left than the rest of your team, move up. If the match ends with the other team having 12 players on the field and you've got 2 mechs left they are an absolute waste and it's generally a good indication that you actually held your team back from success instead of aiding them. Those 2 mechs were ~300 pts of damage or more that your team could have soked, keeping many hundreds of points of damage your team could have dealt in the field.

One of the best defenses is pushing forward and shooting

When you're attacking and someone else is defending a concerted push out of the gates directly at the enemy, raining fire the whole time is your best defense. You shoot, the enemy falls back into cover, now you can shoot his teammates while he is not shooting you. You are getting forward into a better position safely because you're shooting the enemy while moving forward.

Everyone has to move with a push. Your LRM boat, your sniper, everyone. You all move forward as a wave of armor and guns. Shoot on the run. Don't chase enemies; your goal is to get them to get into cover so your team takes less damage. As a given rule the guy who is backing up is the one who's going to die. Don't be that guy. It's okay to take a few hits; when your armor is failing cycle back a bit. When you're in a push and the guys in front of you are slowing, DO NOT SLOW DOWN. PUSH PAST THEM TOWARD THE ENEMY. The enemy has been eating fire and you haven't. That's the whole point; the enemy is taking fire from several waves of mechs and will go down. You are spreading their damage among several of you. Even if you're the LRM boat (which you shouldn't be. LRMs are overall a burden on your team. Don't do it. Ever. Get better with direct fire); move forward and take hits to protect your direct fire teammates, otherwise they're going to die and the other team is going to rush and roll you.

Think of it like this. Hanging back and watching your teammates die in a hail of fire means you lost allied mechs in return for you doing an extra 100 pts of damage - while removing the 300, 500, 700 points of damage they would have done to the enemy in those mechs had you helped keep them alive.

Play like you're part of a team and the success of the team is more important than your individual success and not only will your team do better but you will as well. Wins pay more than losses and those surviving teammates will, by their very existence, improve the performance of your remaining mechs.