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Clan Vs Is And Is Vs Is Drop Deck Weights Being Made Same


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#21 Stoned Prophet

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:32 PM

View PostJohnny Z, on 25 March 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

This uneven and lopsided drop decks on the star map may help with balance between the "easy mode clan mechs" and the "hard mode inner sphere mechs" but it doesnt help with balance in the regular queue.

Will rewards be adjusted for the regular queue? Will the rewards be retroactive so that players in now officially sub par mechs, get rewards they missed?

Also, it is my understanding that hero mechs and inner sphere mech packs prices are based on the equipment etc. Will the prices be adjusted to reflect sub par mechs performance? Will anyone who got heros or mech packs get a refund of any sort?

wut? Wrong thread bro.

#22 Wintersdark

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:37 PM

View PostJohnny Z, on 25 March 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

This uneven and lopsided drop decks on the star map may help with balance between the "easy mode clan mechs" and the "hard mode inner sphere mechs" but it doesnt help with balance in the regular queue.

Will rewards be adjusted for the regular queue? Will the rewards be retroactive so that players in now officially sub par mechs, get rewards they missed?

Also, it is my understanding that hero mechs and inner sphere mech packs prices are based on the equipment etc. Will the prices be adjusted to reflect sub par mechs performance? Will anyone who got heros or mech packs get a refund of any sort?

This is totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. Utterly and completely irrelevant. You've got a perfectly valid point, but it belongs in a totally separate thread.

#23 Wintersdark

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:46 PM

View PostMystere, on 25 March 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:


In light of your comment, I hereby propose that drop deck total weight should not exceed 200 tons, whether Clan or IS.

The only exception to the above rule is a drop deck comprising of the 4 original Founder's Mechs. :wub:

I wouldn't object to this, if the 4-mech requirement was dropped. As an Assault and Medium pilot, I'd be ecstatic to bring an Assault and 2 Mediums.

View PostStoned Prophet, on 25 March 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

Yeah, I feel Light pilot "slots" and Assault pilot "slots" and so forth would be the right way. Let assault pilots pilot what they want, rather than forcing them to take a light to balance out that atlas. Its "little" things like that that are messing with the awesomeness that is cw.
How would you work that in terms of drop decks, when you've got to consider pug groups and such, plus several mechs per player?

View PostCapperDeluxe, on 25 March 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

They should have just lowered the Clan drop weight instead of raising the IS weight.
Why? Sure, you'd break TBR/SCR/SCR/SCR, but in all honestly that isn't a problem, it's a symptom. The solution is fixing the Clan mechs overall so the TBR and SCR aren't so much better than all the rest.

View PostDavers, on 25 March 2015 - 12:11 PM, said:

Yeah, PGI won't do that though since it means decks would be more based on lighter mechs, instead of the more expensive heavier mechs. They want to make sure everyone can easily fit an assault mech into every deck.
Because we want to fit an assault mech in if we want. That said, you certainly don't see many Clan assaults going on, not like IS assaults.

View PostMystere, on 25 March 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

My issue with increasing drop weights is that it just results in more heavy and assault mechs and less mediums and lights given the "bigger is better" mentality pervading the player base. The public queue right at this very moment is highly indicative of that: 73% heavies/assaults and 27% mediums/lights. The CW drops I have been in also reflect a similar bias.
I can't say I've seen that. It's been my experience that clan side, it's almost exclusively heavies/mediums (with more mediums than heavies, obviously; with very few assaults and the odd light.

In CW, it's not heavies/assaults and mediums/lights, those are nonsense categories. Essentially, for every assault you bring, you bring a light. So, it's Assaults/Lights vs. Heavies/Mediums, in CW.

On the other hand, IS forces we face tend to have many lights... and many assaults.

but yeah, you're either L/M/M/A or M/M/H/H or some such, as a rule of thumb.

If you reduce tonnage limits, you basically make Assaults impossible to take, or if they are taken they're padded with nothing but lights. Forcing players who really want to play an Assault to play several Lights is just bizarre and wierd, as the two play styles are so entirely dissimilar.

#24 Wintersdark

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 08:50 PM

View PostDavers, on 25 March 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

I feel this is really unnecessary. Why should the CW queue look like the solo queue, with such a massive amount of heavy mechs? Besides, didn't PGI plan of different planets having different tonnage limits? Won't that force people to redo their decks on a per-planet basis, exactly like they are now with IS vs Clan planets?

As well, forcing players to re-do drop decks on a per-planet basis has severe problems.

Currently, you can take your faction tonnage, be it 250 or 240, and get your mechs set up for that. If every planet had different tonnage limits (as cool as that is in theory):

1) Players would be "forced" (as much as players ever are) to buy many, many more mechs to compete
2) It'd be a HUGE hassle having to swap your drop deck around all the time
3) Players would be "forced" (again, as much as players ever are) to buy many, many more modules, or there'd be huge hassles waiting while people shuffled modules around again and again.

Seriously, different drop weights per planet sounds awesome, but once they implemented that the cries of PGI forcing you to buy ever more mechs would drown out IS vs. Clan balance arguments.

#25 Stoned Prophet

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:28 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 25 March 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:



How would you work that in terms of drop decks, when you've got to consider pug groups and such, plus several mechs per player?


/smh
How does it work in Group que? Exactly. 3/3/3/3.
Oy.

#26 Wintersdark

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 04:08 AM

View PostStoned Prophet, on 26 March 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

/smh
How does it work in Group que? Exactly. 3/3/3/3.
Oy.
3/3/3/3 isn't simple here. In the group queue you can because there is a huge pool of players to draw from to build a match. Not so in CW.

You'd have to hard enforce 1/1/1/1 on every individual player. Blah.

#27 Deathlike

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 08:29 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 26 March 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

3/3/3/3 isn't simple here. In the group queue you can because there is a huge pool of players to draw from to build a match. Not so in CW.

You'd have to hard enforce 1/1/1/1 on every individual player. Blah.


That 1 minute match wait is not enough for those soloing CW to adjust their dropdeck quick enough, especially with the interface (and conflicts would arise to begin with).

Edited by Deathlike, 26 March 2015 - 08:30 AM.


#28 Wintersdark

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 09:14 AM

View PostDeathlike, on 26 March 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:


That 1 minute match wait is not enough for those soloing CW to adjust their dropdeck quick enough, especially with the interface (and conflicts would arise to begin with).
Exactly my point.


The only way you could do it would be a hard per player restriction of 1/1/1/1, because otherwise it would be a nightmare of swapping mechs around. Imagine say 3 3man premades, a 2man and a solo pug, trying to get 12/12/12/12. Some people would refuse to change, others would be unable to (barring horrible trials, and who wants to leave mechs they paid for at home and run horrible trials?)... Others would swap, but too many people would...

Yeah, just not going to happen. And hard 1/1/1/1 restrictions would suck too, IMHO.

#29 Almond Brown

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:00 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 25 March 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

This is totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. Utterly and completely irrelevant. You've got a perfectly valid point, but it belongs in a totally separate thread.


Phew, I thought it was just me totally missing what Johnny was on about. I didn't even read a valid point really... ;)

Edited by Almond Brown, 26 March 2015 - 10:01 AM.


#30 Lyoto Machida

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:41 PM

View PostJohnny Z, on 25 March 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

This uneven and lopsided drop decks on the star map may help with balance between the "easy mode clan mechs" and the "hard mode inner sphere mechs" but it doesnt help with balance in the regular queue.

Will rewards be adjusted for the regular queue? Will the rewards be retroactive so that players in now officially sub par mechs, get rewards they missed?

Also, it is my understanding that hero mechs and inner sphere mech packs prices are based on the equipment etc. Will the prices be adjusted to reflect sub par mechs performance? Will anyone who got heros or mech packs get a refund of any sort?


Lol...highly unlikely. If BMW 335i drivers didn't receive compensation for their cars getting detuned via BMW software updates after the initial batch of cars came out, I doubt anything will come about regarding virtual compensation for leased pixels on a screen.

#31 Stoned Prophet

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 11:00 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 26 March 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

3/3/3/3 isn't simple here. In the group queue you can because there is a huge pool of players to draw from to build a match. Not so in CW.

You'd have to hard enforce 1/1/1/1 on every individual player. Blah.

dude you arent reading. I didnt say every player should have one of each class. Jesus read before you reply.

View PostStoned Prophet, on 26 March 2015 - 12:28 AM, said:

/smh
How does it work in Group que? Exactly. 3/3/3/3.
Oy.

3 of each "slot" for the team. 3 assault players, 3 light, etc.
Please stop making me repeat myself because you dont bother to read.

Edited by Stoned Prophet, 26 March 2015 - 11:02 PM.


#32 627

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 11:08 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 25 March 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

What they really need is multiple dropdeck configurations. Why is this a Lostech concept?


This, so much this.

I'd even pay MC for more decks. I really wonder why this isn't here already, same thing with the 4 "ready" mechs back in UI1.5, why they dropped that concept is beyond me.

#33 Wintersdark

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 04:32 AM

View PostStoned Prophet, on 26 March 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

dude you arent reading. I didnt say every player should have one of each class. Jesus read before you reply.

3 of each "slot" for the team. 3 assault players, 3 light, etc.
Please stop making me repeat myself because you dont bother to read.
No need to be an ass. I read your posts just fine, if anything the opposite is the problem. Never once did I say you suggested every player bring one of each class: I said that, as the only real viable approach. Having 3 players per class isnt practical for the reasons I and Deathlike have already covered. Sure,making a 12 man team would be easy enough, but you don't have a full matchmaker full of pugs. You neither have the time, player pool nor conflict resolution tools to get your pugs in a row to do 3 pilots of each class. In the group queue, it just finds people who fit your team. That wouldn't work in CW.

So, rather than get all ornery, pay more attention rather than just assuming people aren't listening to you.

#34 BreakinStuff

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 07:12 AM

Trying to balance clans versus IS by tonnage is idiotic.

Stormcrow weighs what, 55 tons? Name a heavy meh it does not equal or exceed in value on the battlefield please. What IS mech is the 1v1 equal of a dire wolf or warhawk?

Why are people shocked by asymmetric fights that are unbalanced in that context? When one side has a chclear advantage to the point where the only viable tavtactics involve stupid speed rushes something is up.

So how does making drop deck limited by tonnaged balanced in the context of IS vs Clan combat?







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