31 replies to this topic

[Matthew Ace]

Bishop Steiner, on 26 March 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

In lore, there was no poptarting.

I might not be remembering correctly, but I read somewhere (maybe Battletech 4th edition, cant recall) there's a "poptarting rule" that allows mechs with jump jets to jump up to an elevation equal to jump jet count to fire. The jumper suffered no to-hit penalty, while the counterfiring units would get a -1 bonus or something.

I have to dig up that book when I'm home.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 26 March 2015 - 08:20 PM.

[627]

In lore, Panthers where the workhorses of Kurita, simply because they had the factory. And don't forget we have doubled armor, so in MWO terms it'd had 2 PPCs and 2 SRM4s damage-wise.

Sure, it was hot, but 10 damage at long range, mostly against other lights was nothing to sneeze at.

In MWO it has its niche, simply as big gun carrier, similar to the slow ravens and to some extent the UrbanMech.

[wanderer]

Panthers were the light 'Mech that could one-shot kill or cripple other lights, as it's PPC would generally go internal on anything lighter than it was and strip anything in the same weight range. It could outright headshot anything with a lucky hit, as 10 damage was just enough to breach head armor and potentially crit- in one TT tournament, the first shot I had with mine in the game neatly cockpitted out an enemy Valkyrie and a later hit crippled an enemy Javelin (both 30-tonners) by punching through it's leg armor and breaking it's hip (causing it to keel over).

It wasn't mobile for a light, but you had to respect the PPC- multiple hits would even worry bigger 'Mechs and it could do it at range.

Edited by wanderer, 26 March 2015 - 11:36 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

There is also another discrepancy about "Lore" and "TT" - the later Wolfhound was produced to "kill" panthers as the even later Wolftrap was designed to "kill" wolfhounds

but practicaly in the original "now" intro level the Wolfhound was not really a match for the Panther - the Panther run cold while the WLF overheats easy - if the WLF got close enough that the Panther could not use its PPC - he could outjump the WLF.

The WLF become superrior with 3050 first - giving DHS and ER Large Laser for the WLF - and ERPPC but SHS for the Panther

and in the intro game the panthers ppc was a terrible weapon

[Impyrium]

In MW:O, every 'Mech and weight class is trying to be as viable as each other. Hence 'balance'.

In lore and TT, that wasn't the case. The way I saw it was that a light BattleMech was the equivalent of a light tank, effective and useful in some situations, especially for scouting or whatever, but ultimately a heavy or assault BattleMech was going to be worth multiple lights in a straight up fight. Plus economy. Lights cheaper and quicker to produce.

MW:O is... pretty much just a straight up fight, scouting is limited in usefulness and depth, and there's no economy. So PGI is trying to make taking, say, a Firestarter in a fire fight is just as useful as taking an Atlas. Just from that completely separates MW from lore. I was always kinda hoping PGI would take economy more seriously in CW, making light and mediums cheaper and easier to run while assaults much more expensive and tricky to maintain but obviously worth multiple lights in a battle. Instead we just got a new game mode.

[Karl Streiger]

AUSwarrior24, on 27 March 2015 - 12:24 AM, said:

I was always kinda hoping PGI would take economy more seriously in CW, making light and mediums cheaper and easier to run while assaults much more expensive and tricky to maintain but obviously worth multiple lights in a battle. Instead we just got a new game mode.

Interesting - but isn't the current objective destroy X the better "goal" for a light - the so much raged ZergRush - is just the result of the "victory condition".
Even in the lore - i would not send a company of assaults for a head hunt - or deep strike against the supply lines - just lights that can bypass heavy and assault and cause havoc.

[crustydog]

In TT your ppc hit could cripple the spider, but you usually needed to role an 11 or 12 with 2 die 6 to even hit it in the first place - the odds of which are something like one in nine or so - and then you were likely to just blow it's arm off or something:)

What I see here is light mechs getting hit with hundreds of points in damage - but actually absorbing about a tenth of that, if that unless you get a critical hit - at least until they get beat up some - then the damage rate appears to increase... and they begin to slow down dramatically with wear and tear. Initially they are all but unkillable which makes the zerg rush possible.

The thing of it is, if we did such a zerg rush in TT, the majority of the lights would reach their objectives relatively intact, simply because 9 out of every 10 shots would miss them altogether.

[Joseph Mallan]

El Bandito, on 26 March 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

In lore Panther was the premier IS PPC poptarting Light. Since we do not have sized hardpoints in MWO, that role can be filled with any other Lights with JJs and energy point. Sucked out the whole Panther persona.

I would say it is more due to us having a Mech lab. Remember MOST Mechs were ordered for House troops. They are GIVEN a Mech to drive and they WILL like it.

The Panther is a Long range support for Lights. The fast Lights moved out to engage teh enemy and the Panther supported from range. Sometimes it makes more sense to think like a soldier than a comfy chair commando.. House Davion filled this role with the Valkyrie. And House Steiner eventually filled it with the Hollander.

[BreakinStuff]

Lore panthers were primarily used as light killers. It's why theyare on the border of 45 ton mech armor levels. They used PPCs yo kill fast movers, a joke in MWO since the lightning bolt's speed is at a level where I could almost jump out and run faster. The panther bonus to bolt velocity helps.

The mech is primarily fielded by house kurita because they hold the only factories capable of producing the mech. Most fielded by other successor states were pre-succession era antiques or spoils of war taken ffrom the field.

[Mindwipe]

The Panther was always a little nightmare in TT. Long range offset it's modest speed and its armor was very high for a light. Never understood why they were considered good city fighters given the close range problems of their PPC though.

Keep in mind that riding with those nasty Panthers would be the Kuritan's Jenner, which by stock was one of the fastest and best armed lights available. It's armor was a joke but with the tough Panthers holding the line, the Jenners could flank and you didn't want one of those behind you, nor could you turn to face the Jenners without exposing your back to the Panthers.

I always felt Kurita had the best balance of lights, at least circa 3025.

[Dulahan]

I run a TT “Merc” game where one of my players has a Panther (Others have: Phoenix Hawk and a Jenner. We had a Black Jack pilot too, but life got in the way so he bowed out due to scheduling issues)

A Panther in Stock based games is a BEAST. The PPC lets it punch way above its weight class. Because yes, in TT, you notice when a PPC hits you. Plus PPCs have a good range, so with the JJs it is generally able to hang back and stay out of the majority of other mechs in its class’ and even Medium’s range. While still punching almost as hard as Heavies at the same distance (since most heavies in pre-Clan era have maybe one or two LR weapons, barring LRM boats). Plus it’s rather well armored, as others have said, giving it a ‘tank’ sort of role in the rough weight class. While the SRMS actually give it a heck of a punch up close too. Plus it had a rather low BV, honestly. Which given the above made it a great mech to fill out a lance.

It really is one of those cases of how MWO is –nothing- like Lore. Lore didn’t customize the heck out of things like we do, just for starters. Speed is a more powerful thing, IMHO, in MWO as well.

[Almond Brown]

FupDup, on 26 March 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

Well, since JJs gave a big to-hit penalty, it's implied that you could fire while jumping...otherwise why would it be harder to aim if you were only on the ground when you fired?

It is considered a Movement Penalty modifier and is assessed after you land and is applied on your next turns firing action (or visa versa). Just moving on the ground also gives movement penalties and you don't fire while your piece is being moved last I remember.

House Rules not withstanding of course.

Edited by Almond Brown, 27 March 2015 - 09:28 AM.