18 replies to this topic

[ScorpionNinja]

Hi, I think its time for PGI to give Clan ERPPCs a change!

-Increase the damage to True lore battletech to 15 dmg (pin point)
-get rid of the splash dmg crap of 10/2.5/2.5

-Also then Increase the recycle time from 4 secs to 6 secs.

Edited by ScorpionNinja, 27 March 2015 - 08:47 AM.

[ScorpionNinja]

at the same time the Inner sphere needs changes to PPC/ERPPCs.

Inner sphere PPC/ERPPCs get to fire (3)THREE without ghost heat.

IS* PPC gets velocity Increased from 950 to 1100m/s
IS* ERPPC gets velocity Inreased from 1050 to 1250m/s

[MilesTeg1982]

lets get this straight:

ScorpionNinja, on 27 March 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Hi, I think its time for PGI to give Clan ERPPCs a change!

-Increase the damage to True lore battletech to 15 dmg (pin point)
-get rid of the splash dmg crap of 10/2.5/2.5

-Also then Increase the recycle time from 4 secs to 6 secs.

by increasing the the recylcle time by 50% you actually decrease the the DPS to by 50% ... so what you propose is not a fix of a weapon its huge nerf. Well - you forget to ask to nerf for a C-Gauss-nerf ...

ScorpionNinja, on 27 March 2015 - 08:51 AM, said:

at the same time the Inner sphere needs changes to PPC/ERPPCs.

Inner sphere PPC/ERPPCs get to fire (3)THREE without ghost heat.

IS* PPC gets velocity Increased from 950 to 1100m/s
IS* ERPPC gets velocity Inreased from 1050 to 1250m/s

so in return for cutting down the DPS of the Clan-Weapon you want to buff the IS-Version to a point where people can boat it more effectivly - let me guess you have a Thunderbold 9S and thought - now that the heat quirk was reduced - how can this become more deadly again ...

[Hotthedd]

I think PGI should buff all I.S. Autocannons to be hitscan.

[CHH Badkarma]

I think PGI should fix the long standing ppc hit reg problem before doing anything at all. Kinda sucks when you are a warhawk driver and only half your peeps register.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 29 March 2015 - 06:58 PM.

[MechWarrior849305]

It's time to remove ghost heat, increase velocity of all PPCs to 2km/s and make it back to original heat for any PPC version. Some kinda stupid that I can not boat 6+ PPCs on dat stalker

[Karl Streiger]

MilesTeg1982, on 27 March 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

by increasing the the recylcle time by 50% you actually decrease the the DPS to by 50% ... so what you propose is not a fix of a weapon its huge nerf. Well - you forget to ask to nerf for a C-Gauss-nerf ...

bull crap -
ER PPC is a long range weapon that is based on pin point - DPS crap is not the measure of such weapon.
You can even increase the cool down towards 8sec - as long as this weapon deals 15dmg on hit its worth.

Or in other words - Long Range = Alpha; Short Range = DPS - and yes i know that the AC 20 has mor Alpha but less range - but let me tell you strait - with given PGI tools i can make you a AC 20 that can hit a target on 2000m - and still you want to use the AC 2 for this task


more speed would help to fix the hit reg either - cause i can't remember to have had any problems with hit reg on my Gauss.

[Nightmare1]

I say yes to both ideas, but with the caveat of leaving the Clan recharge time for CERPPCs at the current amount.

[MilesTeg1982]

Karl Streiger, on 30 March 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

bull crap -
ER PPC is a long range weapon that is based on pin point - DPS crap is not the measure of such weapon.
You can even increase the cool down towards 8sec - as long as this weapon deals 15dmg on hit its worth.

Or in other words - Long Range = Alpha; Short Range = DPS - and yes i know that the AC 20 has mor Alpha but less range - but let me tell you strait - with given PGI tools i can make you a AC 20 that can hit a target on 2000m - and still you want to use the AC 2 for this task


more speed would help to fix the hit reg either - cause i can't remember to have had any problems with hit reg on my Gauss.

hmm ... guess I forgot the sarcasm quotes ...well, did not expect it to be that hard to detect too ...

Seriously:
The original proposal by the OP was to nerf Clan-ER-PPC by increasing the recycle time by 50% ... don't tell me that is not a nerf! It does not matter wether someone uses this weapon on short or long range - increasing the recycle time makes it a worth weapon than it is now (in case you have not noticed - Clan-ER-PPCs are not the most common weapon now, take a guess why). At the same time the OP wanted to buff IS-PPC/ER-PPCs.

What I completly miss is a reason for those changes in the proposal - and No "I think its time ..." is not a valid reason ... its actually the same reason a 3 year old screaming for an icecream comes up with.

don't tell me what I want to do ... your argument regarding the AC2/AC20 is just nonsense ... both weapons have different purposes in MWO. AC2s prevent the target from firing back effectivly by shaking the cockpit, AC20s do high damage to single parts of mechs. Taking that into account and since its not that easy to hit a moving target on 1000m+ - yes a high damage pinpoint weapon like gauss is my weapon of choice for high range.

Edited by MilesTeg1982, 31 March 2015 - 06:58 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

MilesTeg1982, on 31 March 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

What I completly miss is a reason for those changes in the proposal - and No "I think its ..." is not a valid reason ... its actually the same reason a 3 year old screaming for an icecream comes up with.

The reason?
15dmg ERPPC - not 10 + stuff - but 15 on point.... making two ERPPC causing the same damage as 2 Gauss.... increasing the PP damage of the MechHunter Dual Gauss Dual ERPPC towards 60- enough to instagib anything below 50t - with one shot.
So there is the reason to nerf its DPS. - gives you 6 rather than 4seconds to do something against that DireWolf before it kills you

Edited by Karl Streiger, 31 March 2015 - 06:57 AM.

[MilesTeg1982]

Karl Streiger, on 31 March 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

So there is the reason to nerf its DPS. - gives you 6 rather than 4seconds to do something against that DireWolf before it kills you

and there we go again - the same old biased argument based on the DWF ... as if charge time on gauss wasn't allready a nerf to make PPC/Gauss harder to use (actually before the DWF was introduced). If you have a problem with DWFs - don't move into their field of fire - IT IS THAT SIMPLE

[Karl Streiger]

MilesTeg1982, on 31 March 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

and there we go again - the same old biased argument based on the DWF ... as if charge time on gauss wasn't allready a nerf to make PPC/Gauss harder to use (actually before the DWF was introduced). If you have a problem with DWFs - don't move into their field of fire - IT IS THAT SIMPLE

Ok English is not my first language, so I could understand if there are "problems" in understanding. DWF was just a example - also could use the Warhawk with 4 ERPPCs (need staggering fire) or the Hellstar to come or the Warhawk wit 2 ERPPC and 1Gauss - or the Hellbringer, heck even the Nova.
All those Mechs would get instantly an insane buff on their ability to deal PP damage.

And as you should know - to have long range weapon that has no drawbacks at lower ranges made any other choice obsolete -> see Gauss in ClosedBeta - you have had a strong character not to use the Utility Gauss.
While we talk about character - i really hope its not a "gerneral" illness withing Clams Wopfs to cry for vanilla - because their idol Stackpole give them all the Vanilla UberWarrior Skillz

Anyhow - a baseline that need to get more restrictive in MWO - and that was what the OP suggested.

Long Range Weapon + Alpha Damage + Short Window of Attack + Less Exposure =
Low Rate of Fire + High Heat + Limited Ammunition

While
Short Range + LOW Alpha + Long Window of Attack + Much Exposure =
High Rate of Fire + Low Heat + Much Ammunition

If you take those guidelines - it means you have to - drop the burn duration for ERLarge Lasers, but also have to increase their reload times. So in terms of a real "Sniper" you have one shot make it count.

On the other hand Small Lasers and other short range bruiser tools need a much higer RoF - but should not be able to deal much damage per shot

Edited by Karl Streiger, 31 March 2015 - 10:27 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

ScorpionNinja, on 27 March 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Hi, I think its time for PGI to give Clan ERPPCs a change!

-Increase the damage to True lore battletech to 15 dmg (pin point)
-get rid of the splash dmg crap of 10/2.5/2.5

-Also then Increase the recycle time from 4 secs to 6 secs.

In MWO Clan ER PPC deal 15 or 10 damage ? ( pinpoint don't count )... If it deal 15 point we can say that True lore battletech is respected whatever pinpoint or splash damage.

Karl Streiger, on 31 March 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

So there is the reason to nerf its DPS. - gives you 6 rather than 4seconds to do something against that DireWolf before it kills you

I prefer this direwolf overheat alone cause low recycle .. ty but not need silly bad snipers who hide behind team during all the match... also Clan ERPPC are fine ( i use it ).

Edited by Idealsuspect, 31 March 2015 - 10:48 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Idealsuspect, on 31 March 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

In MWO Clan ER PPC deal 15 or 10 damage ? ( pinpoint don't count )... If it deal 15 point we can say that True lore battletech is respected whatever pinpoint or splash damage.



I prefer this direwolf overheat alone cause low recycle .. ty but not need silly bad snipers who hide behind team during all the match... also Clan ERPPC are fine ( i use it ).

I use them either - and as said the DWF was just a "example" - and of course its not a Sniper - its a 100t ASSAULT Mech - in fact there shouldn't be sniper in MWO at all.

[Idealsuspect]

Karl Streiger, on 31 March 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

I use them either - and as said the DWF was just a "example" - and of course its not a Sniper - its a 100t ASSAULT Mech - in fact there shouldn't be sniper in MWO at all.

I don't care about Direwolf ...

>>> I prefer this " WHAT YOU WANT " overheat alone cause low recycle .. ty but not need silly bad snipers who hide behind team during all the match... also Clan ERPPC are fine ( i use it ).

Edit : direwolf is an awesome sniper... its an awesome brawler too ... its an awesome mech .

Edited by Idealsuspect, 31 March 2015 - 10:55 PM.

[MilesTeg1982]

Karl Streiger, on 31 March 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

Ok English is not my first language, so I could understand if there are "problems" in understanding. DWF was just a example - also could use the Warhawk with 4 ERPPCs (need staggering fire) or the Hellstar to come or the Warhawk wit 2 ERPPC and 1Gauss - or the Hellbringer, heck even the Nova.
All those Mechs would get instantly an insane buff on their ability to deal PP damage.

English isn't my first language either - still I'm able to recognize a biased request to buff IS and nerf Clans at the same time ... you only mention clan-mechs here and totaly ignore IS-Mechs like CTF, TDR, Stalker which are able to use PPC+Gauss and have used that very succesfull in the past. And you totaly ignore that IS can use regular PPCs, which are not available for Clans and have the advantage of beeing much cooler than ER PPCs. You also totaly ignored the little fact that IS still has a huge advantage regarding pinpoint damage thx to their ACs.

Yes 15 damage pinpoint seems better than 10 damage pinpoint + 5 damage splash - and it would be if the recycle time stays the same. However with recycle time increased by 50% the damage over time is actually reduced. The argument regarding the range of ER-PPCs is also just rubbish since nobody is able to hit a specific part on a moving mech at long range - therefor it does not really matter if all 15 damage go to one part of if it goes to several parts, you'll have to hit several times anyway.

[Karl Streiger]

MilesTeg1982, on 01 April 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

English isn't my first language either - still I'm able to recognize a biased request to buff IS and nerf Clans at the same time ... you only mention clan-mechs here and totaly ignore IS-Mechs like CTF, TDR, Stalker which are able to use PPC+Gauss and have used that very succesfull in the past. And you totaly ignore that IS can use regular PPCs, which are not available for Clans and have the advantage of beeing much cooler than ER PPCs. You also totaly ignored the little fact that IS still has a huge advantage regarding pinpoint damage thx to their ACs.

Yes 15 damage pinpoint seems better than 10 damage pinpoint + 5 damage splash - and it would be if the recycle time stays the same. However with recycle time increased by 50% the damage over time is actually reduced. The argument regarding the range of ER-PPCs is also just rubbish since nobody is able to hit a specific part on a moving mech at long range - therefor it does not really matter if all 15 damage go to one part of if it goes to several parts, you'll have to hit several times anyway.

OK - got it.
I excuse myself for the comparison made using ClanTechs - that screwed my statement i did want to deliver.
I didn't jumped the train for the "reduced" GhostHeat idea, either.

The idea of long range low alpha vs DPS is not reflecting any current available MWO balancing method.
Imho a pitty - and of course it should work for IS alike - for example 5sec PPC,7sec ISERPPC, 8sec ClanERPPC (similar to MW4) - the question is should Gauss and ERPPC be stupid simple in use?
I say no - they are heavy weapons supposed to kill Mechs with few shots - it should be hard to get a hit. When you want to hit a light - use the right tool (LPL, MLAS)
So yes the speed of the ParticleProjectingWeapons may not balanced be - not because its to slow, but because all ballistics are to fast. Ok the second problem with low speed is HSR - you hardly recognize HSR hit detection issues with the Gauss. For a reason.

Another problem - the OP is right -a reduced ghost heat for PPC and ERPPC are necessary to balance those energy weapons with the Stalker 4N. But again we are on the muddy ground of PGIs interpretation of quirks - and I'm strongly opposed to the current implementation. I just realized that my Grid Iron should be able to get a Gauss Cooldown of 1.6sec.
1.6sec + 0.75sec + speed = good HSR + range + PP - who need dual Gauss -when you can do that on a single medium Mech?

[MilesTeg1982]

Karl Streiger, on 01 April 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

Another problem - the OP is right -a reduced ghost heat for PPC and ERPPC are necessary to balance those energy weapons with the Stalker 4N. But again we are on the muddy ground of PGIs interpretation of quirks - and I'm strongly opposed to the current implementation. I just realized that my Grid Iron should be able to get a Gauss Cooldown of 1.6sec.
1.6sec + 0.75sec + speed = good HSR + range + PP - who need dual Gauss -when you can do that on a single medium Mech?

and that is why so many Clan-Players complain about the quirks IS-Mech got - many players just don't realize how powerfull those quirks really are and still insist on Clans beeing OP.

Still - even if IS PPCs/ER-PCCs and Clan ER-PPCs would be treated in the same way - it would be a much harder hit with the nerf bat on the clans than on IS - simply because IS has much more alternatives (ACs, ...). The only(!) alternative weapon with pinpoint damage for clans is the Gauss-Cannon with all its downsides (chargetime, high weight, required ammo). Also your Proposal of 5 sec cooldown for IS PPC compared to 8 sec for Clan ER-PPC actually would give th IS-Weapon a higher DPS than the Clan-Version (which still is much hotter ...) - and that would be even before(!) quirks kick in.

[Tool Box]

I miss my jump sniping TimberGod from last summer it was so fun