19 replies to this topic

[Zookeeper Dan]

I got both the loyalty Atlas and King Crab when I bought the Urbie Bundle. I'm usually a medium or light pilot and these play way differently.

I'm used to poke trading with my faster mechs and then using my speed to get me out of situations when I get into trouble. I've found that you need to play much more cautiously in an assault, and once you commit, you've committed! And the lower weapon mounts mean that by the time you fire, you're really exposed.

I've also learned the hard way that when your team ruses ahead it's easy to get torn apart by lights or to be flanked when you try to catch up. So it's even more important to stay with the group. To help with that I've upgraded the engine in both.

Any other advice for making the transition? Even little things like "Those hills that you have no problem going up in your Jenner will be impassible" are helpful!

Thanks!

[dragnier1]

torso twist?

[SethAbercromby]

Well, you will not get the same speeds in assaults as in Mediums. The biggistest reasonable STD engine in the 2 is a 325 in my opinion or you will lose a lot of tonage you could use for weapons or armor. The King-Crab has reasonable survivability with an XL engine due to it wide CT hitbox, but the Atlas will get focused on its right torso a lot, as most will be using a Gauss or AC20 in there, so XL is a no go for anything that isn't a dedicated long range supporter (something the Atlas isn't remarkebly good at).

The KGC is considerd the less difficult to learn at the moment, you've got your weapons much closer to your cockpit (something the Atlas a huch troubles with as its weapons are mounted much lower than your cockpit is positioned) and its 2 ballistic arms make is effective for builds such as dual Gauss, dual AC20 or quad UAC5. This also means that you have some redundancy with syymetrical builds, as losing one side only results in the loss of half your firepower. The Atlas has its primary weapon located in the right torso, so losing that can result in a significant loss of firepower.

In terms of durability, the Atlas can tank better with its large arms and big side tosos, so it's possible to soak a lot of damage with your left and pounding out damage with the right. The KGC is a little less durable when it comes to soaking damage, as its CT is easier to hit, but to learn with the Assault chassis, the KGC will be a lot more forgiving and its ability to bring a lot of ballistic dakka will certainly bring you a few enjoyable matches.

My personal build with the 000 is 2 AC5s + 2 LB10X, which mixes the long range capability of the AC5 with the short range punch of the LB.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Friends don't let friends XL King Crabs any more than they do Atlases.

My best advice is pretty general: find a build that you like, and then stick with the team as much as you can while using VOIP to try to coordinate movements and call targets.

As for builds:

AS7-S is not a bad build, though it runs very hot if you're firing everything constantly. You can also straight swap the SRM4s for LRM5s if you prefer.

KGC-000 is a pretty good build for a new player looking to learn their King Crab. It runs pretty cool, has plenty of ammo and a lot of fun dakka, and it has backup guns in the event that your run dry or get your guns all blown off. I recommend putting each arm on a different trigger, the better to control your performance around corners and such.

Edited by Levi Porphyrogenitus, 28 March 2015 - 02:34 PM.

[InspectorG]

At range the 1st thing i am for vs a Crab in my Stalker/Dire is the laser hump on the Rt Torso. Unless my team is focusing his CT of course.

Either way he loses an arm and about half/+ his offense if he carries 4AC5/AC40/Dual Gauss.

I fear no LBX at 300-400m.
I see LRMs on a Crab or Atlas, its brawl time. In their grill like a parking attendant during a sporting event.

As far as Assaults in solo:
Stay with the group, yes, i would say this is the main lesson. But some maps you cant: Skirmish on River City NASCAR. Cut across the water if you can.

Set your builds to have a strong alpha, by the time you get to the battleline, opponents may be beat up enough for a one-shot. Weight the risk, dont just run out or crest if it looks bad.

KNOW WHEN THE SHIP IS SINKING. If its useless, go out guns blazing. Running to hide is stupid cuz, well, you are slower than my grandma who died in '89 and it looks weak.

BE IN THE MIDDLE OF YOUR TEAM, safety in numbers, choice overload for the enemy.

SET UP A FIRING LANE/LINE. Pick spots near the usual center camping pug. Anticipate where people poke from but dont pick a spot that is too vulnerable. Move with the team but dig in if they camp. I mainly pilot lights but i have yet to figure how to flank/harass in an Assault other than a 400XL Banshee.

KNOW WHEN TO HOLD 'EM, unlike a light, sometimes its better to sit and wait. Let the enemy come to you.

KNOW WHEN TO FOLD THEM, learn to fire while moving backwards.

LEAD A PUSH in Puglandia, only when you think the teammates bought in...which is rare. If your team is beat up and you are pretty fresh, nut up. Late match you can use this vs a beat up enemy to get initiative.

Atlas with AC20, SRM9000 and ml has to learn to pounce. A waiting game to be sure but when it goes right the Atlas can turn the corner and railroad some mechs.

I think of Assaults like Rooks and Bishops in Chess: you move less but affect large pieces of the board.
Let the mediums and heavies do the busy work, you do the real heavy lifting.

[SethAbercromby]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 28 March 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

Friends don't let friends XL King Crabs any more than they do Atlases.

Not a fan of it myself, but there's at least some debatable effectiveness contrary to the assisted suicide on Stalker or Atlas.

InspectorG, on 28 March 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

I fear no LBX at 300-400m.

You do yours and I do mine. The longer I live, the more you should be concerned about those open spots in your armor though ;P

[InspectorG]

SethAbercromby, on 28 March 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

You do yours and I do mine. The longer I live, the more you should be concerned about those open spots in your armor though ;P

SRMs are the REAL shotguns FTW!

[B L O O D W I T C H]

InspectorG, on 28 March 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

SRMs are the REAL shotguns FTW!

this, a 100 ton assault shouldn't be picky with 1 ton more for an ac10. lbx is trashy and doesn't crit harder then an ac10 either.

AS7-S build.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c7245a922c4f75e

Edited by LOADED, 28 March 2015 - 07:43 PM.

[Romeo Deluxe]

I mastered the Atlas and Highlander awhile ago and lots of good advice here. Only thing I will add is - know the map and have an idea of the location you want to commit ahead of time. Public matches, still learning this CW thing. Most matches play out in 1 to 3 spots. I like to brawl so I hang back and wait for the other side to rush in and there I am to greet them. Occasionally lead a charge, that one is hard to judge when to do. I tell the team but this was before VOIP and half the time I was dutifully ignored.

Research here https://www.mechspecs.com/ try different kinds of builds.

Aim carefully, make every shot count, use the zoom as necessary even in melee range.

[Madcap72]

Big thing I've learned on assaults, is don't put a big engine in them. For the weight penalty you won't pick up much speed and the tons can go to more weapons, ammo, armor, cooling, what have you.


For the Crap, Dual gauss rifles is pretty slick, back it up with a pair of LRM5's and a ERLL, or two MPL's, or whatever.

It's been awhile since I"ve played the L atlas, but I think I had a bunch of MPL's and SRM6's.




Basically, take your time getting to the fight, and show up when the lines are more fixed then if set up the brawl, barge through a weak spot and start smashing faces.

[SethAbercromby]

LOADED, on 28 March 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

this, a 100 ton assault shouldn't be picky with 1 ton more for an ac10. lbx is trashy and doesn't crit harder then an ac10 either.

But you can't use AC10 + AC5 on KCG arms. The AS7-D can mount AC10 + UAC5 tho.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

SethAbercromby, on 29 March 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

But you can't use AC10 + AC5 on KCG arms. The AS7-D can mount AC10 + UAC5 tho.

AS7-D isn't AS7-S ;P

as for the crab, i don't have one. but i think instead of LBX srm will do a better job.

[Modo44]

SethAbercromby, on 28 March 2015 - 05:44 PM, said:

You do yours and I do mine.

Yeah, just do not spew the "LBs are good" bullshit when talking to new players. The weapon is a horrible noobie trap -- easy to hit something, very hard to do any real damage.

[SethAbercromby]

Modo44, on 29 March 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

Yeah, just do not spew the "LBs are good" bullshit when talking to new players. The weapon is a horrible noobie trap -- easy to hit something, very hard to do any real damage.

Which is why my Misery has been feasting on clanner intestines in CW. Because LBs are that bad. As I said though, you do yours and I do mine.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

SethAbercromby, on 29 March 2015 - 04:03 AM, said:

Which is why my Misery has been feasting on clanner intestines in CW. Because LBs are that bad. As I said though, you do yours and I do mine.

an ac5 would do better, an ac10 probably even better. it's not that you can't kill or damage someone with lbx, it's just that regular ac's are by far better.

[The Basilisk]

First thing:
There is a huge difference between just puging the public queue, doing group queue or CW.
Thats why I have different builds for those circumstances.
I won't recommend the Crab or the AS7-S for CW.

AS7-S single PuG public queue. The Idea behind this mech is to search other medium or long range assaults mechs and stay with them. I've got laser range and cooldown modules in this guy and am group firing 2LL Gauss LL Gauss 2LL etc. You also can fire up to 4 volleys of tripple LL without getting too hot ( depends on map and how far you skilled )
Since you won't get the coordination or teamplay in PQ PuGs to play with extreme short range frontload dmg builds ( deathball for the win where charging is just suicide and you are too slow in an Atlas to pursue stragglers ), dealing out constant dmg without overheating may be your best choice. Use the Gauss when ever possible.
Just stay close to at least 1 other assault and don't be shy to communicate.

I've tested other builds on this chassis like the famed 4 ASRM6 and AC20 build, but found them either to be only suitable for highly coordinated VIOP situations where you get precise info where to go and when to strike or simply troll builds.
Reason for this is: you are simply to slow to close with the enemy to actually USE your weapons.
And you need Sh.. loads of luck to survive a game till the end, with your team upperhand and beeing still in pouncing distance to make significant dmg and kills.
There are triumphal incidents where you stop an enemy cold cause he was careless, distracted or inexperienced but I don't think you are inclined to base your playstyle on dumb luck.

This one is merely a troll build the opposite to pinpoint dmg.
So you won't get lots of kills but you will stand your ground and you will still be firing when others overheated.
Idea was to get a coolrunning Mech with good dps for close range support fire and cramped confines.
( And you will get lots of assists )
But like Modo said the LB-X is a weapon wich invites newer players or players with a lack of situational awareness to fire it at distances where its just useless ( untill your intention isn't dmg but support farming --> deathball is your win at 500m ). You have to be below 200m, better below 150m to do any usefull dmg with it and you will still spread dmg like hell. But its good at beating ridiculous ammounts of dmg out of a mech without killing it. Sounds stupid I know, but essentially thats what LRMers do, right ?

Edit: To cut it short I don't think the AS7-S is a Mech that is competitive in any way.
You got low hanging weapons, you are slow, you can't mount more than one big frontload dmg gun, ppcs are not supported on this chassis and you have large hitboxes ( yes your ct hitbox is smaler than your sides but you still are very big an sinfully slow ) basically what Gamer girl posted.

Edited by The Basilisk, 29 March 2015 - 05:36 AM.

[InspectorG]

Modo44, on 29 March 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

Yeah, just do not spew the "LBs are good" bullshit when talking to new players. The weapon is a horrible noobie trap -- easy to hit something, very hard to do any real damage.

Yeah, you have to be very close to make that damage count.

Any word on the LBX spread quirks on the Clansmen mechs? Do they help?

[PACoFist]

Walk backwards when fighting light mechs, or put your back against a wall. Otherwise they will destroy your back armor.

The Atlas sucks a long range combat, due to its hardpoint locations. It is better when used for short range combat. But take at least some long range weapon (LRM or ERLL), so you can do something useful, if there is no opportunity for short range.

Learn to torso twist: Shoot and then turn your right side towards the enemy to protect the left side where your AC20 is located.

The Crab is better at ranged combat, because it can take double Gauss + ERLL + LRM, and doesn´t have most of its hardpoints at hip level.

The Crab is the easier mech. The Atlas is hard to master, and I must admit I never had much success with it.

[Madcap72]

IDK, I just use LBX's as a stand in for medium range rockets.


They might not be "competative" but as mentioned, they make great weapons for c-bill farming. Between getting long range hits for the kill assist, and crit hunting/ up close componant destruction they work pretty good.


It's been a long time so maybe things have changed, but I used to play a shadowhawk with a LB-10x, dual MG's and IIRC a ERLL (Or maybe just a LL) and it was one of the first mechs I had consistant 200K c-bill games (under the old scoring)

[Zookeeper Dan]

Thanks for all the advice.

Here's what I'm piloting.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...34dc032abccb25c
I like the range that the 2 AC5's give, but with the firing difference between them and the AC20 I can't twist very well.
I would like to try the 2 AC5 2 LBX10 build, it just looks fun. AC's for range, LBX's for up close.

And my Atlas.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f03f4b9c0873c26
Once I have the spare C-Bills (I'm saving to upgrade my Urbies when they drop) I'll upgrade to Endo, Art SRM6's, and drop the AMS.

If I slow down my game I do pretty well, although The Basilisk is right, once you're in range you get focused on. I'm not to worried about surviving as long as my team can bring the hurt while I'm being beat up on.

Edited by Danth Reduviid, 29 March 2015 - 04:24 PM.