50 replies to this topic

[Shadow Stryke]

I am a fairly new player and am probably missing something that is obvious to a veteran.

I realize they have a long range and cause some screen jitter.
I just wonder what else they do that would not be better served by a laser or PPC for the weight.

I watched a Jaegermech with 4x AC/2 and far too much ammo, get taken apart by an Adder with 2x SPLasers.

If you are just looking for a long ranged harrassment system, wouldn't a couple LRM 5s do a better job? They seem to have a few benfits;

1) Can fire over terrain.
2) Easier to fire on the move.
3) The idea of someone using LRMs at all will get some people's blood boiling.
(OK, that last was meant in jest.)

Please help educate a confused rookie.

[Banditman]

AC2's are generally fail. They simply were a part of the Battletech universe, so we have them here.

[SethAbercromby]

Well the AC2s have a few things that certainly give them value.

High DPS per ton and speed of and range close to a Gauss Rifle. Also though then have ridicolous HPS, their heat is much more controllable than it's PPC counterparts. With reliable aim and open field, 4 AC2 can deal quite some damage at high ranges. This is of course off-set by low alpha damage (that is per shot) and the arormentioned high heat generation caused by it's absurd rate of fire.

Most people would probably prefer to use them as additive weapons rather than as their primary arsenal, but I think that match you mentioned was just good play on the Adder's part. Only crazy people play them, so expect they pilots to be crazy good as well.

[Tim East]

A 4Xac2 jager should have easily beaten a 2spl adder. AC2's are not super-great weapons, despite my love for them, but they do inflict reasonable damage at good range with decent screen shake. He may just have wanted to try them on for size with the removal of AC2 ghost heat. Still, for most purposes, AC5's are much better and only weigh a little bit more.

[SnagaDance]

AC/2's used to be much better when their maximum range was still at 3 times the optimal range instead of 2 times. This way they still did lots of damage at moderate range. Their screen shake effect was also bigger in the past. Which actually led to lots of "Plz Nerf AC/2!!1!" threads as 4 AC/2 Jagers were sawing right through mechs who didn't realise the danger.

I only got myself a quad AC/2 Jager after the nerf but it's more of a joke-mech, I just love the dakka-dakka sound of it. It might still work versus a careless IS mech but with the way Clan mechs punish you for the facetime needed to wield these weapons it's really a build of the past.

That said they can still do a good amount of damage when ignored and they still have one positive factor.....they're annoying. It's annoying to have your cockpit plinked by incessant small caliber autocannon rounds and because of this can draw attention. I've got a few mechs of mine that use a single AC/2 to purposely annoy enemies and distract them from bigger threats in my team. While at the same time my remaining weaponry can still hurt them if they just try to ignore me of course.

[Modo44]

The AC2 was a very high burst DPS weapon with extreme range, but also high heat (low sustained DPS). Nothing else could shred targets as quickly. It was bad at higher Elo where people know how to shield, and spread damage does not work well -- more heat-efficient, less spreading weapons would win. But it was apparently too good at low Elo, so it got nerfed into oblivion. Now both burst, and sustained DPS is way too low to be useful. Save the tonnage, take an AC5 or a UAC5 instead.

Edited by Modo44, 27 March 2015 - 02:17 AM.

[DivineEvil]

AC/2 is in a sour spot within the balance. Before it's current position it has 3x maximum range, higher rate of fire and stronger shaking. In these regards it was mathematically overpowered and favored over the conventional AC/5. Ever since stats of this weapon has been equalized to the general AutoCannon standards, it has a limited value as a weapon for lighter medium mechs, i.e. ballistic Blackjacks and VND-1X. For heavier mechs the UAC/5 is a common favorite, while for Light mechs it is a bit too much of a burden. RVN-4X is better with it's energy weapons and DRG-1N is better with it's strongly quirked AC/5s.

Edited by DivineEvil, 27 March 2015 - 03:01 AM.

[Kmieciu]

Shadowstyke, on 26 March 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

Please help educate a confused rookie.

You're maybe a rookie, but an observant one. Trust your gut. AC2 seems pointless for you, because it is pointless. Too hot for such a heavy weapon.
To put things in perspective, C-ULTRA AC/2 weighs 1 ton less than AC2 and can, in theory, reach double DPS thanks to the ultra mode. And yet you never see one being used by a veteran clanner, since the UAC5 is so much better, not to mention various laser builds.

Edited by Kmieciu, 27 March 2015 - 05:06 AM.

[Stingray Productions]

Shadowstyke, on 26 March 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

I am a fairly new player and am probably missing something that is obvious to a veteran.

I realize they have a long range and cause some screen jitter.
I just wonder what else they do that would not be better served by a laser or PPC for the weight.

I watched a Jaegermech with 4x AC/2 and far too much ammo, get taken apart by an Adder with 2x SPLasers.

If you are just looking for a long ranged harrassment system, wouldn't a couple LRM 5s do a better job? They seem to have a few benfits;

1) Can fire over terrain.
2) Easier to fire on the move.
3) The idea of someone using LRMs at all will get some people's blood boiling.
(OK, that last was meant in jest.)

Please help educate a confused rookie.

I like AC2s best when taking on heavies and assaults...especially assaults. However, I suck at them when fighting lights. I guess it just depends on your preference.

[Tahribator]

I made an analysis a few months ago: http://raksarmory.bl...ate-of-ac2.html

Since then the ghost heat was removed (it barely made a difference) and one of the developers stated that he was happy with the state of the AC2s. He said that they should be used as a suppression weapon rather than a DPS monster/killer weapon. The result is that bringing AC2s is still a horrible idea that should be best avoided. Unless you can bring 3+. Then it starts to be somewhat effective/hilarious.

[Modo44]

The everyone will laugh at you kind of hilarious.

[TercieI]

Banditman, on 26 March 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

AC2's are generally fail. They simply were a part of the Battletech universe, so we have them here.

Pretty much this. I'm not sure if they were any use in TT, but they don't translate at all to the way MWO actually works. They're a junk class weapon.

[SnagaDance]

Terciel1976, on 27 March 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Pretty much this. I'm not sure if they were any use in TT, but they don't translate at all to the way MWO actually works. They're a junk class weapon.

They were pretty junk in TT as well, though they had the longest range of any weapon in classic play so it could be used to plink at Lrm users and force them to move. They did do very well against vehicles though, because of the rule that any hit (even if it didn't penetrate the armor) gave a chance of critting the vehicle. With a bit of luck you might take out the locomotion of any vehicle trying to get within weapons range, leaving several vehicles at your mercy. Great salvage!

[Tim East]

SnagaDance, on 27 March 2015 - 02:02 AM, said:

AC/2's used to be much better when their maximum range was still at 3 times the optimal range instead of 2 times. This way they still did lots of damage at moderate range. Their screen shake effect was also bigger in the past. Which actually led to lots of "Plz Nerf AC/2!!1!" threads as 4 AC/2 Jagers were sawing right through mechs who didn't realise the danger.

I only got myself a quad AC/2 Jager after the nerf but it's more of a joke-mech, I just love the dakka-dakka sound of it. It might still work versus a careless IS mech but with the way Clan mechs punish you for the facetime needed to wield these weapons it's really a build of the past.

That said they can still do a good amount of damage when ignored and they still have one positive factor.....they're annoying. It's annoying to have your cockpit plinked by incessant small caliber autocannon rounds and because of this can draw attention. I've got a few mechs of mine that use a single AC/2 to purposely annoy enemies and distract them from bigger threats in my team. While at the same time my remaining weaponry can still hurt them if they just try to ignore me of course.

I had surprising success with an AC2 Raven 4X before the wipe. The AC2 was actually functional as a suppression weapon at the time, and guasskitties tried to stare through it far more often than was prudent. Nowadays though? The only mech I have mounting any kind of AC2 is my Adder with an LB2. Which was kind of a joke build, despite its tendency to build good numbers in CW.

Tahribator, on 27 March 2015 - 06:18 AM, said:

I made an analysis a few months ago: http://raksarmory.bl...ate-of-ac2.html

Since then the ghost heat was removed (it barely made a difference) and one of the developers stated that he was happy with the state of the AC2s. He said that they should be used as a suppression weapon rather than a DPS monster/killer weapon. The result is that bringing AC2s is still a horrible idea that should be best avoided. Unless you can bring 3+. Then it starts to be somewhat effective/hilarious.

Something that wasn't mentioned in the otherwise pretty good article? Increasing the shake to something similar to what it used to be. If the devs want it to be a long range suppression weapon, it would help if it were able to actually, you know, suppress. Also good might be a projectile speed buff, since at long range people can still dodge it if they're paying attention.

I guess all I'm saying is that there are more ways to skin a cat than just dps based buffs. And I'm glad they removed ghost heat from this weapon.

Now the flamer on the other hand... Well, that beast is going to need a lot more adjustment than AC2s to be of any use at all.

[SethAbercromby]

Tim East, on 27 March 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

Now the flamer on the other hand... Well, that beast is going to need a lot more adjustment than AC2s to be of any use at all.

Two things, really.

1) Consistent heat generation. Say 0.5 HPS per flamer and the target recieves 0.75 HPS per flamer to a maximum of 90% total heat capacity
2) Double range or liniear damage and HPS drop-off until double of its optimal range.

This would make it useful as you cannot overheat from a single flamer any more (exponential heat sounded fun, but it makes the weapon completely useless) and with some increased range, it actually becomes usable with different weapons in tandem such as SRMs, SPLs and MGs.

[terrycloth]

AC2s aren't completely useless, but they try.

They do decent DPS for their weight for a ballistic -- they beat a PPC, actually! But you have to stare at your opponent and keep hitting him every 2/3rds of a second or so.

Also, 'beating a PPC' is a very low bar, since PPCs kind of suck. They don't beat a large pulse laser.

[Koniving]

Combine AC/2s with something else for best effect.

Combined with an LBX.
Combined with AC/5s.
Combined with AC/10 and MGs.
More modern AC/10 AC/2 and MG build.


Old AC/2s.

Edited by Koniving, 27 March 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Tylerchu]

I love running that build. Here's my mentality behind it.
As of now, the AC/2 has no ghost heat. 4 AC/2 can be chainfired for a relatively long time, bordering absurd, and if you're targeting someone that's engaged with one of your teammates they're not gonna see absurd screen shake, but they're gonna hear this constant TANG-TANG-TANG-TANG and their screen shake like a small earthquake. It's a horrible distraction. And you also tend to get the kills because you're constantly pouring out damage as opposed to massive one-shot alphas which will ALMOST kill that but then the AC/2 does that one last little bit to finish the job.
DISCLAIMER: I'm not a habitual kill-stealer; I just have to do that in this build to get match points.
-
This build can also do absurd damage. I can pull an easy 600+ on a good match and once hit high 900s.
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The aforementioned screenshake and annoying sounds are also a quick suppressing weapon; if the enemy sees shells flying they won't be able to distinguish between what kind of autocannon it is aside from its fire rate (which could be from multiple mechs firing AC/20s for all they know). Once someone figures that it's just a bunch of AC/2s they'll usually rush you and you're gonna die if you don't have a teammate or two with you.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

The AC2 to me is a weapon, like the Gauss Rifle, makes your position harder to detect when you are engaging the enemy at range aside from the noise it makes.

Deals 2 damage at optimal range and most players when they start taking damage will go into panic mode so there's another use.

Also a decent weapon to learn how to lead your targets with along with the PPC/ER PPC.

At close range you don't have to worry about overheating as much while continuing to deal damage to the opponent.

Basically, there is no such thing as a pointless weapon as they all have their uses and functions in the field. Also the fact that everyone has their own style of playing so it just makes for a wider variety of available weapon loadouts.

Personally I enjoy using the LB10X 'cause it's fun tickling the enemy at extreme ranges as well as dealing sneeze damage at close range instead of just focusing on one spot on their 'mech. But the AC2 is fun too at times even though I don't use it as often.

[jss78]

RazorbeastFXK3, on 27 March 2015 - 09:20 PM, said:

The AC2 to me is a weapon, like the Gauss Rifle, makes your position harder to detect when you are engaging the enemy at range aside from the noise it makes.

Deals 2 damage at optimal range and most players when they start taking damage will go into panic mode so there's another use.

OK, I'm new myself, but this strikes me as a good point, based on my limited experience.

I've been running the 2xAC/2 in the BJ-1, and I find that AC/2 fire draws a lot less return fire than e.g. ER-LLs. Insofar as I work actively to find good firing positions, I find that I spend a surprisingly large part of the game pounding away with impunity, while the enemies often seem more concerned with something else.

(I'd gladly take AC/5s, but I don't think they fit without an XL engine, and I really often lose one side in the BJ-1 because of the way that mech is waving its armpits around.)