19 replies to this topic

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Hail,

Khan DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa of Clan Diamond Shark : Diamond Shiver here.

I apologize to those who heard my frustration come out in our last game. I realize that it had a mixture of unit people, and that there is no one perfect strategy. However, something that works best is when a team works together under a plan. An idea. A guidance other than "kill them all".

There's a unit within our ranks (I believe they're mercs) who believe the way to win is to just run into a group of mechs and fire. They are very vocal about it, don't seem to care what others do, and believe their high damage numbers are anything other than running up and laying down as much fire while their teammates cover them. This unit is just the worst when it comes to teamplay and I was frustrated.

For all we tried to do... to stay above the enemy team we were sabotaged repeatedly by unit guys who either can't be patient, think a fair trade for hitting a mech with an alpha is getting hit by 3 enemy alphas, think that in a push sitting back and sniping is the best strategy, think 1 warrior flanks makes sense, or ... and this is the one that galls the most, lights and mediums should be out front trading with heavies and assaults.

So I apologize. I really appreciate so many of the CJF warriors I fight across. Thank you for those who ask me to lead and appreciate when I do. I know sometimes I get irritable when I'm wearing down and my patience drops but I try to work on it because I love this game. I love that the game involves thinking, timing, strategy, placement... and isn't just a mechwarrior version of ... well, I don't play any other FPS so I'm not sure what to compare it with but you know what I mean. So thank you, and I apologize. I promise I will try to do better in the future.

Seyla

[Chagatay]

It happens to everyone. Just take a small break if you get to worked up about it (i.e start to yell at the monitor). Either way, that last game was pretty close right up until the end.

[Hydrocarbon]

Unfortunately I think the clan as a whole has perpetuated this play style themselves. "IS mechs are OP, but our skill is OP. When organized we are invincible!" It's a side effect of your overly-survivable clan-XL's, longer range, and much larger alpha strikes. But then again what would an IS player who owns a TBR and 3x Crows know.

I can relate from at least one game this weekend. Some tool devided to solo Omega on a counter attack with 3 of his mechs and we ended up losing 44:48. We got mad, but ended up laughing our asses off. You have to roll with the punches. It's a game after all, not a job.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Thanks for the words and advice and it's true.

For me it's a bit of a job (an enjoyable one) since I love my unit and warriors. I also really love this IP and the people the people I've come across that I can call friends. Sad that so many are in other units but life.

Still, you're right. There are just some warriors in the game I just have to disregard and remember the people who ask for me to lead, who appreciate when I keep people together and who work hard to make wins. I've really learned to be better with new warriors and I work hard to explain things for them (things I know seasoned Mechwarriors know (don't charge in a spear... spread shoulder to shoulder to give the opposing team many targets and fire on the called shot) but I really really care about the newer warriors and ones who've played but want to get better.

I know I always get frazzled on these competition weekends (I've apparently gotten 37 games counted towards my sold storm crow (that last game for me was... a loss 38-1 isn't bad but prolly tells me to take a day or two to rest (and then get back on Thursday for clan training night

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

You know what sometimes bothers though... on a personal level.

Asking if anyone is going to lead (If I would have (my guys number the most on the field I sometimes explain I'm exhausted), but want someone to give the overall group guidance (we're a pug group too) and not getting it... watching a team nearly get obliterated and not wanting the team to lose someone steps up... ask people to move to cords, focus their fire.

Then you watch those team members... the ones that you know are going to get high scores but they're not going to really help the team to win start yelling or insulting whoever is leading the whole team to victory. They're the ones that either don't use or drop off of VOIP. They're the ones that really make it seem like they're working against a team to win and they're the ones yelling or insulting.

There are warriors and there are leaders, but those guys are neither. That're just selfish. Selfish, entitled and often spoiled as they don't see they're spiting one person... but the whole team.

[Deathlike]

TBH, you have to get everyone committed to a plan... no matter how good or bad it is.

The thing is, not everything will go in your favor... as there may be people not on the same page (whether willingly or unwillingly) and it's often difficult to get people out of a passive mindset.

Still, it's just a game, and poop happens. Don't take every match too personally.

There are worse things that could happen honestly.

[Widowmaker1981]

Daisu Saikoro, on 31 March 2015 - 12:39 AM, said:

You know what sometimes bothers though... on a personal level.

Asking if anyone is going to lead (If I would have (my guys number the most on the field I sometimes explain I'm exhausted), but want someone to give the overall group guidance (we're a pug group too) and not getting it... watching a team nearly get obliterated and not wanting the team to lose someone steps up... ask people to move to cords, focus their fire.

Then you watch those team members... the ones that you know are going to get high scores but they're not going to really help the team to win start yelling or insulting whoever is leading the whole team to victory. They're the ones that either don't use or drop off of VOIP. They're the ones that really make it seem like they're working against a team to win and they're the ones yelling or insulting.

There are warriors and there are leaders, but those guys are neither. That're just selfish. Selfish, entitled and often spoiled as they don't see they're spiting one person... but the whole team.

While i dont know about the specifics of this, what do you mean by 'high damage scores' ? because if they are getting 2000+ dmg then i guarantee they ARE helping the team, and they are NOT trading badly (and if the rest of the team did the same... youd win by killing all the mechs). Tbh i see more losses caused by people blindly going for objectives they could kill later when the enemy are dead than i do by people fighting when they should be going for an objective (and yes, there is a time for both)

I dont yell or insult, in fact ill only type something one game in 20 probably. I dont use ingame VOIP because it adds 50 to my ping and drops my FPS by 10, so ill just stick with TS3 TYVM. In fairness if im dropping solo or in a smaller group i also do 100% defense because that way i don't get stuck with people who want to rush objectives on my team.

Probably makes a difference that i dont give 2 flying forks about the star map, i just like the invasion (well, counter attack really) game mode, so zerging in to kill static objectives to take the planet quicker is of literally zero interest to me.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 31 March 2015 - 01:59 AM.

[Lily from animove]

CW is not alwyas won by making 2k damage,

A lot people stay back when the rush should happen, rack up damage on remaining opponents and contribute nothing to proceed the requirements to win.
Those people would mostly end up with 30 minutes spent, 3k damage racked up but not winning anything. ot they would not even have any damage because they constantly lurk from outside the gates to kill something never doing a step in.

I have seen a lot of thes people who call a rush to sue temamates as cannonfodder but never come with them properly.

Important is to core vital components so teammates cna finihs, or finish what teammates have cored. taking out damage potential of your opponents as fast s possible, or focus on the main objectives.

Edited by Lily from animove, 31 March 2015 - 05:03 AM.

[YCSLiesmith]

Widowmaker1981, on 31 March 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

While i dont know about the specifics of this, what do you mean by 'high damage scores' ? because if they are getting 2000+ dmg then i guarantee they ARE helping the team, and they are NOT trading badly (and if the rest of the team did the same... youd win by killing all the mechs). Tbh i see more losses caused by people blindly going for objectives they could kill later when the enemy are dead than i do by people fighting when they should be going for an objective (and yes, there is a time for both)

ive seen a guy get that kind of damage and destroy their team by playing recklessly and ending up the first one dead while the other team still had two or three waves left. sure they killed more than their share of mechs but the result was that the enemy outnumbered their team and destroyed them utterly.

[Widowmaker1981]

YCSLiesmith, on 31 March 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

ive seen a guy get that kind of damage and destroy their team by playing recklessly and ending up the first one dead while the other team still had two or three waves left. sure they killed more than their share of mechs but the result was that the enemy outnumbered their team and destroyed them utterly.

So you're saying the guy killed far more than his weight of mechs, and somehow it was his fault that the team lost? id point fingers at the inevitable people who did sub 300 dmg between 4 mechs first.. Yeah there is a balance between being aggressive looking for damage and keeping yourself in mechs for later, and dying early is unwise - this specfic situation might be something ive not seen, but normally when someone is dead super early, they also have very low damage (because to get high dmg you need to trade well, and that normally implies some survival skills)

[YCSLiesmith]

Widowmaker1981, on 31 March 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

So you're saying the guy killed far more than his weight of mechs, and somehow it was his fault that the team lost? id point fingers at the inevitable people who did sub 300 dmg between 4 mechs first.. Yeah there is a balance between being aggressive looking for damage and keeping yourself in mechs for later, and dying early is unwise - this specfic situation might be something ive not seen, but normally when someone is dead super early, they also have very low damage (because to get high dmg you need to trade well, and that normally implies some survival skills)

yes, it was his fault the team lost. he killed better than half of the enemy's first drop wave on his own, then dropped and immediately rushed back in, then did it again two more times. he ran ahead when the rest of the team was trying to coordinate. and yeah, he got a lot of kills.

the key difference here though is that when you are an entire player down, the game transforms. 11 vs 12 soon becomes 10/12 and then 8/12 and then 4/12 when you're playing a competent team. neither team was particularly good (it was pug vs. pug) aside from this guy, and he was clearly putting the side on his back, but in the end being down a man is a far greater handicap than being down 10 mechs.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Not dying in cw, winning trades, and getting a high score at the end are usually a sign of a pro player. Just because he doesnt run in to die with you/ get artied/ airstriked doesnt mean he is not contributing to the match.

Edited by Alwrath, 31 March 2015 - 06:04 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

It was/is an event weekend, plenty of pug players didn't care about the win they just went there to rack up 80 points and work to a free mech.

I pug and did alot more drops than I would do normally because the wait time was down, and frankly I got frustrated at the attitude of some people hanging back, and hope this was an experiment that failed if all its going to do is bring that sort of person to CW, so I can understand elements of frustration, for regular Cw players.

Of course there were also some unwarranted coments made by 'big gun players' from the steiner groups, who just happend the be pugging, so it does swing both ways, but props for Manning up and apologiesing

[Widowmaker1981]

YCSLiesmith, on 31 March 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

yes, it was his fault the team lost. he killed better than half of the enemy's first drop wave on his own, then dropped and immediately rushed back in, then did it again two more times. he ran ahead when the rest of the team was trying to coordinate. and yeah, he got a lot of kills.

the key difference here though is that when you are an entire player down, the game transforms. 11 vs 12 soon becomes 10/12 and then 8/12 and then 4/12 when you're playing a competent team. neither team was particularly good (it was pug vs. pug) aside from this guy, and he was clearly putting the side on his back, but in the end being down a man is a far greater handicap than being down 10 mechs.

With respect to the highlighted part - if he was good enough to take out 6 mechs in the enemy dropwave, where the hell was the rest of his team? they should have mopped up the other half and gone and camped them in the spawn lol.. i can see this story having 2 sides is all im saying.

[Hydrocarbon]

Someone else said this on the forums: "It's better to follow a bad idea as a team than follow your own good plan alone."

Him killing half the team set the others up to feel ineffectual and/or feel like the berserkers could carry them. Where was the rest of his team? As the OP said, they were following the leader when a splinter group decided to jam to their own song. What do you do when the elected leader says HOLD and 3 random guys yell "LeeeROOOOOOY JENKiiiiiiiiNS!!!" The other team was probably able to reinforce during the suicide mission so it was never really 6v12.

[YCSLiesmith]

Alwrath, on 31 March 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

Not dying in cw, winning trades, and getting a high score at the end are usually a sign of a pro player. Just because he doesnt run in to die with you/ get artied/ airstriked doesnt mean he is not contributing to the match.

im not sure who this is addressed to. the op is complaining about guys who DID run in and die

Widowmaker1981, on 31 March 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

With respect to the highlighted part - if he was good enough to take out 6 mechs in the enemy dropwave, where the hell was the rest of his team? they should have mopped up the other half and gone and camped them in the spawn lol.. i can see this story having 2 sides is all im saying.

We were defending (like i said, i was pugging). this guy kept heading out to attack and he was hilariously better than the other team so he ate them alive but he didn't coordinate or have any real support. and he just kept doing it, going out to break up the enemy. the guys who tried to back him up got owned because they were pugs and had no real plan. The 'real' fighting happened after he was dead and if the other team had been any good at all we woulda got drop farmed.

Dont get me wrong this guy was way better than me at clicking robots but he had zero discipline and didn't really help the team at all.

also i wanna be clear i thought it was hilarious he was hootin and hollerin on voip

[Widowmaker1981]

YCSLiesmith, on 31 March 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

We were defending (like i said, i was pugging). this guy kept heading out to attack and he was hilariously better than the other team so he ate them alive but he didn't coordinate or have any real support. and he just kept doing it, going out to break up the enemy. the guys who tried to back him up got owned because they were pugs and had no real plan. The 'real' fighting happened after he was dead and if the other team had been any good at all we woulda got drop farmed.

Dont get me wrong this guy was way better than me at clicking robots but he had zero discipline and didn't really help the team at all.

also i wanna be clear i thought it was hilarious he was hootin and hollerin on voip

Weird, i havent seen anyone that good at the game (fighting multiple enemies essentially solo and winning is HARD, even if you are much better than them, clicking robots is only minimally difficult in and of itself) who wasn't also pretty damn good at sensible positioning.

and yeah, acting like a **** in chat/voip is acting like a ****.

[YCSLiesmith]

i wasnt up with him but im sure he was good at positioning he just didn't stay with the team at all.

[MahKraah]

greetings daisu,
havent seen you in a while.

[AlmightyAeng]

Hydrocarbon, on 30 March 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

Unfortunately I think the clan as a whole has perpetuated this play style themselves. "IS mechs are OP, but our skill is OP. When organized we are invincible!" It's a side effect of your overly-survivable clan-XL's, longer range, and much larger alpha strikes. But then again what would an IS player who owns a TBR and 3x Crows know.

I can relate from at least one game this weekend. Some tool devided to solo Omega on a counter attack with 3 of his mechs and we ended up losing 44:48. We got mad, but ended up laughing our asses off. You have to roll with the punches. It's a game after all, not a job.

Sometimes...you just gotta leg a buddy for his own good, and keep him safe near the dropships.