I'm pretty new to the game and I have saved up just about enough c-bills to purchase either the Hellbringer or the Timber Wolf. I want to make an informed purchase so I would really like some input about the pros and cons of each mech. I like to support assults and the group as a whole at medium range and I'm not very fond of ballistic weapons. I'm trying not to regret my purchase so I would really appreciate some input! Thanks!
1
Timber Wolf Or Hellbringer?
Started by Meowmander, Apr 01 2015 06:17 AM
20 replies to this topic
#2
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- The Blood Bound
- 1,466 posts
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- LocationLegendary Founder, Masakari Collector, Man-O-War Collector, Wrath Collector, Gladiator Collector, Mauler Collector
Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:20 AM
Hellbringer.... The ECM alone IMO makes this the better choice. And to be completely, honest, I don't even bother running the Timberwolf anymore since it is always a "focus fire" target. (AKA when the enemy sees your team, they will all aim at the Timberwolves from the get go regardless of communication)
#3
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- Ace Of Spades
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- LocationThe Templars
Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:32 AM
1. Having enough money for "one" mech isn't the same as having enough for all three variants. If you can't purchase all three variants, you should probably save your money.
2. Timber Wolves are the most focused mech on the field, as in, killed by the enemy above all others. They are followed closely in priority by Dire Wolves and Warhawks (often mistaken for a Dire). In general, the bigger your mech, the more likely it is to draw fire.
3. Hellbringers are perpetually under gunned. You can mount the weapons, but not have the heat sinks to cool them, or you can mount the heatsinks, and fewer weapons. ECM is fantastic, and that's what makes this mech tick, just don't expect it to be a natural born killer.
Less expensive options:
1. Thunderbolts. You can kit out a full three Thunderbolts for less than three Stormcrows. Some of the costs are hidden, in terms of Endo Steel and DHS upgrades, but for around 30 million you can full purchase, upgrade and configure three viable Thunderbolts.
2. Ice Ferrets. These mechs also have a reputation for being undergunned, and they certainly can be. However, they are also extremely fast and often go ignored. I was very surprised at how good this mech turned out to be. Call it 33 million or so to build them out.
2. Timber Wolves are the most focused mech on the field, as in, killed by the enemy above all others. They are followed closely in priority by Dire Wolves and Warhawks (often mistaken for a Dire). In general, the bigger your mech, the more likely it is to draw fire.
3. Hellbringers are perpetually under gunned. You can mount the weapons, but not have the heat sinks to cool them, or you can mount the heatsinks, and fewer weapons. ECM is fantastic, and that's what makes this mech tick, just don't expect it to be a natural born killer.
Less expensive options:
1. Thunderbolts. You can kit out a full three Thunderbolts for less than three Stormcrows. Some of the costs are hidden, in terms of Endo Steel and DHS upgrades, but for around 30 million you can full purchase, upgrade and configure three viable Thunderbolts.
2. Ice Ferrets. These mechs also have a reputation for being undergunned, and they certainly can be. However, they are also extremely fast and often go ignored. I was very surprised at how good this mech turned out to be. Call it 33 million or so to build them out.
#4
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- Moderate Giver
- 58 posts
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Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:49 AM
First thing I want to mention: There's no such thing as true "Support" in this game. Everyone has the same role, it's a matter of playstyle. Your goal is to blow up the enemy mechs. Scouting and Intelligence/Electronic Warfare aren't very well presented in this game. ECM is nice, but using it correctly isn't about you using it correctly, more than it is about your teammates understanding what it does and staying close without stepping on each others toes. The only thing you need to do with it is know when you try and get behind the enemy and use it as Counter (Default keyboard button: J) instead of the default Disrupt. In a Hellbringer, you normally just keep it in Disrupt anyway, so nothing to worry about there.
The best way to play this game is to understand how to position. Positioning means that you can do all of these:
1) Not have the enemy lock on to you. This deprives them of your armor health, this deprives them of seeing your weapons loadout (KILL THE AC40 JAGER!), this deprives them of missile locks (NARC notwithstanding, but this will be covered later).
2) Allow you to fire assuming you understand where your weapon hardpoints are. What I mean is how to fire without exposing your entire mech. Are you a symmetrical mech, or asymmetrical? Hellbringers are kind of asymmetrical, while the Timberwolf is a little more symmetrical. This exposes less of your mech to damage.
3) Take less damage overall, as well. If you pop out, fire the Right side of your mech, and duck back under the cover before the enemy can react, then that's a free damage trade. If they get a snap shot off, it'll only hit your Right leg, Right Arm, or possibly Right Side Torso (for most mechs. Please look for the hitbox localization thread for detailed hitbox information). If you're a Centurion charging in, this means USING the dead side of your mech as a shield. Centurions (and others) have hardpoints on one side of their mech, meaning they can use the other side to absorb damage. IF YOU POSITION IT IN THE WAY OF INCOMING FIRE.
4) If you position behind cover, you can avoid LRM damage entirely. Even if you're NARC'd, you can sit safely behind/under cliffs, buildings, anything to get between you and the incoming LRMs. I've had success calling out when my teammates are NARC'd with the new VOIP system. There's no way to know by yourself, someone else has to tell you. If I can't say their name quickly, I'll just call out the chassis. "Cicada, you're narc'd. Get under cover." That's all you need to say. If they die, it's their fault, but having someone call out helpful information like that also helps the team feel unified and increase chance of winning, because they feel more coordinated.
5) Depending on what kind of mech you're taking, this next part is easier or harder. DO NOT USE THE SAME COVER CONSISTENTLY. There's a Timberwolf variant that has Jump Jets to scale terrain. Fire once or twice, but then MOVE while under cover to a new location to surprise and fire at your enemy. If you're a Light or Medium, you can even try to take advantage of your assault allies to take some hits for you by hiding behind them while you move to a new position. An Atlas or Dire Wolf usually has at LEAST 100 points of CT front armor. Walk behind him while you get to the new location so he can take the random LRMs that come out. Don't be a jerk about it and make them take 60 or 80 LRMs just because you're there.
6) Positioning lets you run cooler, because you're not always under fire. You can sit for 5 or 10 seconds and cool down your PPCs, Lasers, or whatnot. Means you can fire more consistently. Means you can deal more damage. And, because you're not taking as much damage, you'll live longer to DEAL more damage as well!
So... everything being said, HOW do you want to play? As mentioned above, the Timberwolf is one of the most destructive mechs in the game, and because of that, gets focused down QUICKLY! People love to pilot them, but more than that, people love to KILL these mechs, because they have such a great damage potential. Keyword in the previous sentence: Potential. The Hellbringer has less damage potential because it doesn't have as good as weapon loadouts, but it DOES have ECM. ECM is very handy for feeling like support. You stand farther back, they can't get locks on you so it's harder to hit you, and as a Heavy, you're slower so it's easier to cover your assaults with the bubble as well.
Once you figure out how you want to play, ask around on the forums to figure out which mech suits you. Then go from there. And remember, it's a game, so have fun.
EDIT: If you really want to play Clan, I'd recommend watching JagerXII on NGNGTV when he's streaming at twitch.tv. He (from what I've seen, at least) plays the Hellbringer and the Timberwolf somewhat consistently, so you can observe the differences between them as well.
DOUBLE EDIT: To actually address your question... If you don't like ballistics, want to be more supporty, I'd recommend the Hellbringer. I have no personal experience with the mechs, but it sounds like it would suit your playstyle better.
The best way to play this game is to understand how to position. Positioning means that you can do all of these:
1) Not have the enemy lock on to you. This deprives them of your armor health, this deprives them of seeing your weapons loadout (KILL THE AC40 JAGER!), this deprives them of missile locks (NARC notwithstanding, but this will be covered later).
2) Allow you to fire assuming you understand where your weapon hardpoints are. What I mean is how to fire without exposing your entire mech. Are you a symmetrical mech, or asymmetrical? Hellbringers are kind of asymmetrical, while the Timberwolf is a little more symmetrical. This exposes less of your mech to damage.
3) Take less damage overall, as well. If you pop out, fire the Right side of your mech, and duck back under the cover before the enemy can react, then that's a free damage trade. If they get a snap shot off, it'll only hit your Right leg, Right Arm, or possibly Right Side Torso (for most mechs. Please look for the hitbox localization thread for detailed hitbox information). If you're a Centurion charging in, this means USING the dead side of your mech as a shield. Centurions (and others) have hardpoints on one side of their mech, meaning they can use the other side to absorb damage. IF YOU POSITION IT IN THE WAY OF INCOMING FIRE.
4) If you position behind cover, you can avoid LRM damage entirely. Even if you're NARC'd, you can sit safely behind/under cliffs, buildings, anything to get between you and the incoming LRMs. I've had success calling out when my teammates are NARC'd with the new VOIP system. There's no way to know by yourself, someone else has to tell you. If I can't say their name quickly, I'll just call out the chassis. "Cicada, you're narc'd. Get under cover." That's all you need to say. If they die, it's their fault, but having someone call out helpful information like that also helps the team feel unified and increase chance of winning, because they feel more coordinated.
5) Depending on what kind of mech you're taking, this next part is easier or harder. DO NOT USE THE SAME COVER CONSISTENTLY. There's a Timberwolf variant that has Jump Jets to scale terrain. Fire once or twice, but then MOVE while under cover to a new location to surprise and fire at your enemy. If you're a Light or Medium, you can even try to take advantage of your assault allies to take some hits for you by hiding behind them while you move to a new position. An Atlas or Dire Wolf usually has at LEAST 100 points of CT front armor. Walk behind him while you get to the new location so he can take the random LRMs that come out. Don't be a jerk about it and make them take 60 or 80 LRMs just because you're there.
6) Positioning lets you run cooler, because you're not always under fire. You can sit for 5 or 10 seconds and cool down your PPCs, Lasers, or whatnot. Means you can fire more consistently. Means you can deal more damage. And, because you're not taking as much damage, you'll live longer to DEAL more damage as well!
So... everything being said, HOW do you want to play? As mentioned above, the Timberwolf is one of the most destructive mechs in the game, and because of that, gets focused down QUICKLY! People love to pilot them, but more than that, people love to KILL these mechs, because they have such a great damage potential. Keyword in the previous sentence: Potential. The Hellbringer has less damage potential because it doesn't have as good as weapon loadouts, but it DOES have ECM. ECM is very handy for feeling like support. You stand farther back, they can't get locks on you so it's harder to hit you, and as a Heavy, you're slower so it's easier to cover your assaults with the bubble as well.
Once you figure out how you want to play, ask around on the forums to figure out which mech suits you. Then go from there. And remember, it's a game, so have fun.
EDIT: If you really want to play Clan, I'd recommend watching JagerXII on NGNGTV when he's streaming at twitch.tv. He (from what I've seen, at least) plays the Hellbringer and the Timberwolf somewhat consistently, so you can observe the differences between them as well.
DOUBLE EDIT: To actually address your question... If you don't like ballistics, want to be more supporty, I'd recommend the Hellbringer. I have no personal experience with the mechs, but it sounds like it would suit your playstyle better.
Edited by Viken, 01 April 2015 - 07:01 AM.
#5
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- Bad Company
- 493 posts
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- LocationPictland
Posted 01 April 2015 - 06:51 AM
I have both.The Timber wolf is a much much better mech.Only thing the Hellbringer has over it is ECM.
Reasons-Timberwolf can carry more weapons with better cooling,is much harder to bring down and has jumpjets.
Reasons-Timberwolf can carry more weapons with better cooling,is much harder to bring down and has jumpjets.
#6
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- Shredder
- 4,292 posts
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- LocationOhio
Posted 01 April 2015 - 07:12 AM
Meowmander, on 01 April 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:
I'm pretty new to the game and I have saved up just about enough c-bills to purchase either the Hellbringer or the Timber Wolf. I want to make an informed purchase so I would really like some input about the pros and cons of each mech. I like to support assults and the group as a whole at medium range and I'm not very fond of ballistic weapons. I'm trying not to regret my purchase so I would really appreciate some input! Thanks!
The TBR is the best mech in the game. It can run any build the HBR can but better. It's also more versatile than the HBR. The only benefit to the HBR is ECM. IMO get with the TBR first and then get the HBR.
#7
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- The Hungry
- 1,465 posts
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Posted 01 April 2015 - 07:21 AM
During your first 25 matches you have received the "Cadet Bonus", meaning you get a fantastic amount of CBills per match. Once you complete that first 25 match set you will no longer receive this bonus. Instead, your earnings will be based on your in match contribution. Since you are new this means you will earn very little for a time while you gain experience at the game.
Consider this when making your mech purchases. If you spend it all on a single mech, it will be a long time before you can afford the other two. Because there is an XP system that provides bonuses to mech performance, you should not purchase a single variant but plan on getting three variants of a given mech as the XP system requires 3 variants to unlock the best bonuses.
My advice, find a cheaper, likely medium mech, that you are interested in and start there. That way you will have multiple mechs to drop in and outfit. It would not be a good thing if you blew your whole cadet bonus on a particular mech just to find out you don't like it.
EDIT: Smurfy is a good resource to mess around with mechs before spending in game money.
Consider this when making your mech purchases. If you spend it all on a single mech, it will be a long time before you can afford the other two. Because there is an XP system that provides bonuses to mech performance, you should not purchase a single variant but plan on getting three variants of a given mech as the XP system requires 3 variants to unlock the best bonuses.
My advice, find a cheaper, likely medium mech, that you are interested in and start there. That way you will have multiple mechs to drop in and outfit. It would not be a good thing if you blew your whole cadet bonus on a particular mech just to find out you don't like it.
EDIT: Smurfy is a good resource to mess around with mechs before spending in game money.
Edited by Voivode, 01 April 2015 - 07:26 AM.
#9
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- Knight Errant
- 2 posts
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Posted 01 April 2015 - 07:51 AM
Viken, on 01 April 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:
FTFY. 
you da real MVP.
#10
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- Big Brother
- 331 posts
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Posted 02 April 2015 - 04:03 AM
If you want a clan mech, Timberwolf. A poster above suggested the Thunderbolt. The Thunderbolt is cheap and has arguably the best quirks in MWO.
#11
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- Ace Of Spades
- 28 posts
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- LocationWinning, somewhere, but definitely winning
Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:24 AM
If you are new buy a hellbringer or a stormcrow. you will last longer even if you do not play better, thus getting more c-bills. I myself prefer the hellbringer over the timberwolf. I like my weapon convergence and that all my weapons are on one side. It keeps me on my toes and has me constantly practicing piloting not just shooting.
#12
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- Elite Founder
- 768 posts
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- LocationLayton, UT USA
Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:26 AM
Between the Timberwolf and the Hellbringer; I'd go with Hellbringer. If you are new to the game you probably see a ton of LRM boats. ECM is vital for you and your team. If you are going to buy one; buy the Prime for ECM. They can be hot; but very controllable too - Add a Gauss for heat control. A good starting build might be this:
1xGauss, 5xERMed Laser, ECM, Target Computer, 16x DHS
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...93f1b54f1b9cfb2
1xGauss, 5xERMed Laser, ECM, Target Computer, 16x DHS
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...93f1b54f1b9cfb2
#13
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- The People's Hero
- 3,213 posts
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- LocationDixie
Posted 02 April 2015 - 05:55 AM
Either is a fine choice. The Timber is, ton for ton, the best mech in the game besides arguably the Stormcrow, IMO. But the Hellbringer is great if you plan to pug a lot. ECM, despite the counters, is the best tonnage investment in the game.
Both can laser vomit very well, if you don't like ballistics (who doesn't like clan ballistics?
)
The Hellbringer does not get endo or ferro, but if PGI ever made these upgradable, the Hellbringer might become THE go-to clan chassis...
Both can laser vomit very well, if you don't like ballistics (who doesn't like clan ballistics?
)The Hellbringer does not get endo or ferro, but if PGI ever made these upgradable, the Hellbringer might become THE go-to clan chassis...
#14
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- The Blazing
- 2,789 posts
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Posted 02 April 2015 - 06:01 AM
I have both mechs and my experience is:
Despite what the other guy above said: HBR are mostly primary target.
Because they have ECM. The enemy is not completely stupid, you know.
If you see an ECM mech that is neither tiny and fast like the lights nor massively armored like the Atlas, what do you do?
You immediately try to take it out as fast as possible.
PLUS
Everyone focusses the HBR's left torso as this is the only place where an ECM can be fitted (giant design flaw).
PLUS
About 2/3 of the mech's weapons hang exactely on THAT torso side (even gianterer design flaw).
The weapons in the LT and the weapons in the left arm.
Meaning if you have a typical laser-heavy HBR build, something around 75% of your mech (ECM + most weapons) die within the first few hits you get.
And then you're left with 1-2 lasers and no ECM. Game over for you.
A missile or ballistic-heavy build (RT) works a little better as you still have those to use.
Typical HBR matches for me are:
- I run around with 100% health
- enemy contact, left torso is critical on the first (alpha) hit
- second hit, LT destroyed, that's it.
The TBR has some issues with its arms being to small and low to provide proper cover, but the HBR has the same issues as its arms are the same shape.
The TBR's advantages are:
- 10 tons heavier and better internal tech for more equipment tonnage
- jumpjet pods
Despite what the other guy above said: HBR are mostly primary target.
Because they have ECM. The enemy is not completely stupid, you know.
If you see an ECM mech that is neither tiny and fast like the lights nor massively armored like the Atlas, what do you do?
You immediately try to take it out as fast as possible.
PLUS
Everyone focusses the HBR's left torso as this is the only place where an ECM can be fitted (giant design flaw).
PLUS
About 2/3 of the mech's weapons hang exactely on THAT torso side (even gianterer design flaw).
The weapons in the LT and the weapons in the left arm.
Meaning if you have a typical laser-heavy HBR build, something around 75% of your mech (ECM + most weapons) die within the first few hits you get.
And then you're left with 1-2 lasers and no ECM. Game over for you.
A missile or ballistic-heavy build (RT) works a little better as you still have those to use.
Typical HBR matches for me are:
- I run around with 100% health
- enemy contact, left torso is critical on the first (alpha) hit
- second hit, LT destroyed, that's it.
The TBR has some issues with its arms being to small and low to provide proper cover, but the HBR has the same issues as its arms are the same shape.
The TBR's advantages are:
- 10 tons heavier and better internal tech for more equipment tonnage
- jumpjet pods
Edited by Paigan, 02 April 2015 - 06:04 AM.
#15
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- Survivor
- 123 posts
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Posted 02 April 2015 - 09:43 AM
Just get the summoner its better than both those cheeze mechs.
#16
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- Shredder
- 4,292 posts
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- LocationOhio
Posted 02 April 2015 - 12:30 PM
0rionsbane, on 02 April 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:
Just get the summoner its better than both those cheeze mechs.
Why troll the OP with obvious poor advance? The Summoner is the worst Clan heavy.
#17
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- Shredder
- 136 posts
Member
- LocationFlorida
Posted 03 April 2015 - 06:49 AM
Viken laid out the pros and cons extremely well. I have both Timbers and Hellbringers Elited and had a ton of fun with my Timbers as heavy brawlers/sniper killers (Gauss/dual PPC). They have excellent range of builds to play with and very durable heavy hitters.
I LOVE my Hellbringer as it affords a whole different play style and very much a team/support role. With the overwhelming LRM rain these days the ECM reduces it tremendously and I try to stick with the assault/heavy group if they stick together. ERPPC, LRM15, 5x ERML is a great combination. It is a little hot if you get to brawling but for hide and peek it works great.
Here's the play with 3 kills and 697 damage on Crimson Straight.
Youtube Hellbringer
I LOVE my Hellbringer as it affords a whole different play style and very much a team/support role. With the overwhelming LRM rain these days the ECM reduces it tremendously and I try to stick with the assault/heavy group if they stick together. ERPPC, LRM15, 5x ERML is a great combination. It is a little hot if you get to brawling but for hide and peek it works great.
Here's the play with 3 kills and 697 damage on Crimson Straight.
Youtube Hellbringer
#18
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- Philanthropist
- 1,188 posts
Member
- LocationSunny Southsea
Posted 04 April 2015 - 03:30 AM
The TBR is a perfect mech, and if I was to give honest advice to any new player I would suggest forgoing everything else and just aiming for (three) TBR right off the bat.
It's by no means an I Win button, and you will have to deal with being one of those players that fails a lot in a Timber Wolf, which is always funny, but in the end you will basically be able to anything, and you be able to hold your own against more-or-less anything too.
The HBR is still great, don't get me wrong, and ECM is forgiving for new players, but ECM makes you weak.
My primary mech is a SMN anyway.
It's by no means an I Win button, and you will have to deal with being one of those players that fails a lot in a Timber Wolf, which is always funny, but in the end you will basically be able to anything, and you be able to hold your own against more-or-less anything too.
The HBR is still great, don't get me wrong, and ECM is forgiving for new players, but ECM makes you weak.
My primary mech is a SMN anyway.
#19
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- FP Veteran - Beta 1
- 1,876 posts
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Posted 05 April 2015 - 12:39 PM
Banditman, on 01 April 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:
1. Having enough money for "one" mech isn't the same as having enough for all three variants. If you can't purchase all three variants, you should probably save your money.
I disagree, loudly.
Having owned most of the mechs available, I can only think of two or three times in the last year where I bought all three at once.
DO your research, start with the least favorable variant, grind it out, saving your cbills for the next one, sell it, buy #2 and proceed.
BOTH are excellent. The timber is one of the very few I bought with real money- three pack invasion, kept two. Hellbringers, did one at a time, kept the prime.
I would have to say....Hellbringer, that ECM is simply a game changer. Crazy adapatable chassis, lrms, streaks, srms, ballistics, lasers...does everything very well.
No jumpjets..but getting locked by a lrm? Not enough jumpjets available to get away from that mistake
#20
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- Ace Of Spades
- 332 posts
Member
Posted 06 April 2015 - 02:04 PM
I've got a few hundred matches in each chassis and my gut reaction (despite my Hellbringer love) would be the Timber.
Reason being is it has a great variety of builds, everything from Gauss+ML to 2xUAC5, to "meta" 2xLPL, 4xML, or PPCs... Plus it has jump jets, good hit boxes, good speed and in general is just a very well rounded mech.
Favorite builds are: 2xERPPC, 4x SPL, 24DHS, 2JJs (takes time to get used to, but a lot of fun)
2x LPL, 4x ML (the meta build)
The Hellbringer is a excellent mech, but more difficult to pilot and outfit. The ECM and most of the weapons being on one side means you need to be very careful and torso twist a lot to keep from getting castrated. I also think that the Hellbringer has less usable builds.
My two favorite for it are 2x LPL, 3x ML (1 in the head) with ECM, and the other one is 6x MPL with ECM and 23 DHS.
Reason being is it has a great variety of builds, everything from Gauss+ML to 2xUAC5, to "meta" 2xLPL, 4xML, or PPCs... Plus it has jump jets, good hit boxes, good speed and in general is just a very well rounded mech.
Favorite builds are: 2xERPPC, 4x SPL, 24DHS, 2JJs (takes time to get used to, but a lot of fun)
2x LPL, 4x ML (the meta build)
The Hellbringer is a excellent mech, but more difficult to pilot and outfit. The ECM and most of the weapons being on one side means you need to be very careful and torso twist a lot to keep from getting castrated. I also think that the Hellbringer has less usable builds.
My two favorite for it are 2x LPL, 3x ML (1 in the head) with ECM, and the other one is 6x MPL with ECM and 23 DHS.
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