27 replies to this topic

[Postumus]

Just from a quick look at the heat scale figures for CStreak 6's, the total heat penalty for firing 6 at the same time, which is double the number of streak pods at which the penalty kicks in, is only 5.4 heat. That's only about the equivalent of the heat from firing a single extra pod.

Now, compare this to, say, the clan LRM 5 heat scale. CLRM5 pods have a similar penalty set up to streak 6 pods - fire more than 3, and you incur a penalty. However, firing 6 of them together, you end up with 8.3 heat from the penalty, the equivalent of firing four extra CLRM5 pods.

What gives?

[CHH Badkarma]

nfc. maybe to offset the cool down somehow?

[Kotzi]

Yes nerf please. Dont care about range, reload time or anything. Just make everything the same. Same heat, same reload, same range...

[charov]

Nerf what? SSRM are terribile, no one boats then expect sometimes in CW but it's the only way to deal with zerg rushes, especially is done by ppl with low ping.

[Nayru]

Firing all 6 at the same time is something you should only do when disengaging anyway, since hit detection has a much larger coronary when it has to handle 36 streaks hitting than it usually does.

[CHH Badkarma]

Kotzi, on 31 March 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

Yes nerf please. Dont care about range, reload time or anything. Just make everything the same. Same heat, same reload, same range...

yes and make all mechs have 100 armor and all weapons do one damage. thats balance for ya

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 31 March 2015 - 11:33 PM.

[Kotzi]

No smart pilot fires several streak6 at once, not with mwo hitreg. Streaks are good against lights and heavily damaged mechs. If you die as an heavy or assault mech against a streakcrow you are either severly damaged or have a loadout like mgs, small laser and lots of lrms.

[El Bandito]

Postumus, on 31 March 2015 - 10:50 PM, said:

Just from a quick look at the heat scale figures for CStreak 6's, the total heat penalty for firing 6 at the same time, which is double the number of streak pods at which the penalty kicks in, is only 5.4 heat. That's only about the equivalent of the heat from firing a single extra pod.

Now, compare this to, say, the clan LRM 5 heat scale. CLRM5 pods have a similar penalty set up to streak 6 pods - fire more than 3, and you incur a penalty. However, firing 6 of them together, you end up with 8.3 heat from the penalty, the equivalent of firing four extra CLRM5 pods.

What gives?

CSSRM's heat penalty is always similar to CSRMs due to having same damage and range. You are making a mistake if you are comparing it to LRMs.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 March 2015 - 11:47 PM.

[John80sk]

El Bandito, on 31 March 2015 - 11:44 PM, said:

CSSRM's heat penalty is always similar to CSRMs due to having same damage and range. You are making a mistake if you are comparing it to LRMs.

Er, with the module clan streaks have 390 range (and honestly, why wouldn't you take that increase). 120m more than SRM's.

[Nayru]

Trying to use streak srm-6's like streak lrm-12's is cute and all, but it's asking to be torso twisted/cover blocked.

Which is generally what happens with streaks past 150m to begin with, but sometimes they don't see it coming.

[Kotzi]

John80sk, on 01 April 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

Er, with the module clan streaks have 390 range (and honestly, why wouldn't you take that increase). 120m more than SRM's.

They still behave different to lrms.

[FupDup]

Streaks don't need more heat, they need their targeting mechanic to be rebuilt from the ground up so that they're more globally useful instead of binary pendulum swinging between either a cheese crutch or nearly useless depending on what target you're shooting them at.

Wildly inconsistent and binary results make them too hard to fully judge as balanced or not. Do we call them underpowered based on their results against big robots? Do we call them overpowered based on their results against little robots? That's exactly the problem.

When a weapon behaves two ways, which of those ways should we use as the baseline? Or we could make them more reliable and consistent, and then go from there...

Edited by FupDup, 01 April 2015 - 04:40 AM.

[Firelizard]

FupDup, on 01 April 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

Streaks don't need more heat, they need their targeting mechanic to be rebuilt from the ground up so that they're more globally useful instead of binary pendulum swinging between either a cheese crutch or nearly useless depending on what target you're shooting them at.

Wildly inconsistent and binary results make them too hard to fully judge as balanced or not. Do we call them underpowered based on their results against big robots? Do we call them overpowered based on their results against little robots? That's exactly the problem.

When a weapon behaves two ways, which of those ways should we use as the baseline? Or we could make them more reliable and consistent, and then go from there...

Common sense...

...!

BURN THE HERETIC!

Edited by Firelizard, 01 April 2015 - 04:44 AM.

[Gyrok]

Postumus, on 31 March 2015 - 10:50 PM, said:

Just from a quick look at the heat scale figures for CStreak 6's, the total heat penalty for firing 6 at the same time, which is double the number of streak pods at which the penalty kicks in, is only 5.4 heat. That's only about the equivalent of the heat from firing a single extra pod.

Now, compare this to, say, the clan LRM 5 heat scale. CLRM5 pods have a similar penalty set up to streak 6 pods - fire more than 3, and you incur a penalty. However, firing 6 of them together, you end up with 8.3 heat from the penalty, the equivalent of firing four extra CLRM5 pods.

What gives?

You do realize the heat penalties are on top of them already being pretty hot. Add in the fact that you are wothless past about 400m, and require CAP/TAG/UAV to counter multiple ECMs and you start to see a very niche weapon system flesh out. Now, toss in the fact that the damage picks a component per launcher by RNG and you get stupid levels of damage spread too, making them useless against larger mechs.

[Lily from animove]

Kotzi, on 31 March 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

Yes nerf please. Dont care about range, reload time or anything. Just make everything the same. Same heat, same reload, same range...

yeha cool thing, finally no ranting about whos op and who not. no overquirked IS mechs, no weird edgy overgunned clanners.
Then we just balance some emchs havign bad hardpoints and bad hitboxes. Because SPD 5V will with its 2 E still stay bad.

Some wepaons have issues, streaks versus heavies are pointless they hit too many locations and damage is lousy. streaks vs lights, quite OPish when they strke them from the side, because their flight path makes them rip off arms and probably the ST in a single strike. Very problematic. Hard to balance tbh. same for MG's, they work vs large hitboxes and are worthless vs lights.

[Davegt27]

Heat penalty for streaks seems pretty high to me

Are we playing the same game?

Is this a troll post?

Why not ask to have your Mech buffed instead of someone else’s Mech nerfed?

[Bigbacon]

the only thing that needs to be fixed is given IS SSRMs a fighting chance... time to bump the damage back up to 5 at least.

[Postumus]

Kotzi, on 01 April 2015 - 01:48 AM, said:

They still behave different to lrms.

I used a comparison to the LRM5 heat scale because 1. they're both lockable, no aim weapons, 2. they both have a problem with being severely boated. I also used the comparison because I felt that while streaks are by far the more dangerous weapon of the two (you can't take your time to run and dodge a streak fired at you, there is no radar derp for streaks etc.), they seem to have a much, much more forgiving heat scale.

Davegt27, on 01 April 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

Heat penalty for streaks seems pretty high to me

Are we playing the same game?

Is this a troll post?

Why not ask to have your Mech buffed instead of someone else’s Mech nerfed?

Go check out Smurphy, take a look at the heat penalties for various weapons. Like I said in the original post, the heat penalty for firing DOUBLE the number of streak 6's at which the heat penalties kick in only results in a heat penalty of 5ish, about like firing a single extra streak 6. That is really low compared to a lot of other weapon systems. This doesn't mean that firing 6 of them at the same time is the optimal way to use them, I just used it to make a point.

Bigbacon, on 01 April 2015 - 06:10 AM, said:

the only thing that needs to be fixed is given IS SSRMs a fighting chance... time to bump the damage back up to 5 at least.

Streaks should not be a viable general purpose weapon system. You should not be able to boat streaks and have a similar chance to kill mediums and up versus using SRMs. The tradeoff is supposed to be between chance to hit and accuracy - and yes, those are two different things. I would like to see streaks as a more or less niche weapon for dealing with fast light mechs - and this is basically what they are now. The problem is that you can fire a gajillion of them at the same time with little heat penalty, so that basically any light mech is turned into a fine red mist after a hit or two, without the annoyance of having to aim, lead your target, or do anything except click.

Edited by Postumus, 01 April 2015 - 02:24 PM.

[Satan n stuff]

FupDup, on 01 April 2015 - 04:36 AM, said:

Streaks don't need more heat, they need their targeting mechanic to be rebuilt from the ground up so that they're more globally useful instead of binary pendulum swinging between either a cheese crutch or nearly useless depending on what target you're shooting them at.

Wildly inconsistent and binary results make them too hard to fully judge as balanced or not. Do we call them underpowered based on their results against big robots? Do we call them overpowered based on their results against little robots? That's exactly the problem.

When a weapon behaves two ways, which of those ways should we use as the baseline? Or we could make them more reliable and consistent, and then go from there...

I'd argue that they're bad regardless of what your target is. A solid hit or two with a bunch of lasers or PPCs or whatever will take out a light much faster than streaks, and if you've got decent aim it's not that hard to get a good hit.

[FupDup]

Satan n stuff, on 01 April 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

I'd argue that they're bad regardless of what your target is. A solid hit or two with a bunch of lasers or PPCs or whatever will take out a light much faster than streaks, and if you've got decent aim it's not that hard to get a good hit.

Keywords highlighted, as many of the forumites appear to be deficient in that area.

Making the missiles form a cluster around the spot where you aim at (note the word cluster, as in they wouldn't all just pinpoint on one pixel because that could cause problems...) would actually make them a lot stronger in many regards, even against lights. They'd just require the user to have a target hitbox in mind rather than just point anywhere in a large red rectangle and hope the missiles hit where you want them to...