127 replies to this topic

[BreakinStuff]

Seph MacLeod, on 02 April 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

This user you are talking to must of ignored the entire pacific conflict in World War 2 in History Class.

I'd use other examples, but quite bluntly I think breaking it down to the most basic level was the best option. And the pacific conflict was more about digging out entrenched enemies. Once the enemy is dug in, the kill ratio usually runs 3-1 against the attackers or worse. It's just the nature of the beast.

Even a clueless idiot can hold a trenchline with an automatic rifle or a shotgun.

Edited by BreakinStuff, 02 April 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[Appogee]

Burktross, on 02 April 2015 - 08:45 AM, said:

Semantics. T.M.

There is no semantic similarity between 'cheating' and 'using a matchmaker which turned out to be bugged'.

Big Words: understand them before you write them in a big font. T.M.

Edited by Appogee, 02 April 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[Burktross]

Appogee, on 02 April 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

There is no semantic similarity between 'cheating' and 'using a matchmaker which turned out to be bugged'.

Big Words: understand them before you write them in a big font. T.M.

The IS was using larger numbers to win the game unfairly.
Via faulty component of matchmaking.
By making use of this, they were effectively exploiting the system.
When it comes to gaming, exploitation is a form of cheating.

[C E Dwyer]

El Bandito, on 01 April 2015 - 11:08 PM, said:

I am sure skill also matters to certain degree. Bear in mind though, even with the disadvantage, the Clans won 53% of the matches.



The IS players simply did not realize that their superior number was cheating the system. Not their fault.

not cheating just unware of the fact CW doesn't account for numbers

[Lord0fHats]

Burktross, on 02 April 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

The IS was using larger numbers to win the game unfairly.
Via faulty component of matchmaking.
By making use of this, they were effectively exploiting the system.
When it comes to gaming, exploitation is a form of cheating.

Is it just a trend on these boards to calling everything an exploit, regardless of whether or not it actually is?

[Stealth Fox]

Cathy, on 02 April 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

not cheating just unware of the fact CW doesn't account for numbers

And I quote in full

ManaValkyrie, on 02 April 2015 - 03:52 AM, said:

The sad thing is that this *bug/feature* has been noticeable well before the weekend event, Kurita players have been aware of it since the counter/hold game mode came into effect in CW.

For us to get headway a lot of the time the house units had to get as many full groups in, use speed drops, to try and beat the ques as early as possible in places because we didnt have the attacker numbers to overcome the 4 clan's defenders dropping in against us.

HK, saw the hold territory/defend issue months ago, its even been highlighted multiple times. Unfortunately it took this events HUGE swing to point out the *bug/feature* in a way that can't be denied.

*Mic Drops*

[Davers]

CHH Badkarma, on 01 April 2015 - 11:27 PM, said:

surprised he actually let out how many people were playing cw at any given time. Pretty low sadly

There were more people playing CW at any given time then some people claimed play the game period. I think those were pretty good numbers.

[Roadkill]

Karl Streiger, on 01 April 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

on one hand - superior numbers should not beat superior skill

WTF are you talking about? Superior numbers absolutely should beat superior skill. That's even canon in BattleTech. It's also historically accurate in the real world.

Superior skill can only take you so far when you're being overwhelmed by superior numbers.

[Burktross]

Lord0fHats, on 02 April 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Is it just a trend on these boards to calling everything an exploit, regardless of whether or not it actually is?

Unfair advantage due to a coding mistake?
Sounds like an exploit, tbh.

Otherwise no-- not here-- all the gaming community shares this use/overuse.

Roadkill, on 02 April 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

WTF are you talking about? Superior numbers absolutely should beat superior skill. That's even canon in BattleTech. It's also historically accurate in the real world.

Superior skill can only take you so far when you're being overwhelmed by superior numbers.

Well, the problem is. This is a game.
I'm not even trying to be rude or anything, but things need to be balanced in any case.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Even a clueless idiot can hold a trenchline with an automatic rifle or a shotgun."

Saddam's former army would disagree

[Roadkill]

Burktross, on 02 April 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

Well, the problem is. This is a game.
I'm not even trying to be rude or anything, but things need to be balanced in any case.

Based on the numbers, it looks like things are balanced. Or at least I suspect that PGI thinks they are. I don't really agree with their concept for CW, but I believe I understand it. They don't really want either side to win... ever. They want a continuous, never-ending struggle where one side's gains on one day are erased by the other side's counter-attack the next day. Or week/month/whatever.

The Clans had been winning... a lot. The fact that the IS was able to take back so many worlds over the weekend is probably a good thing for PGI's vision of CW. No one can win. But that's the point.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"superior numbers should not beat superior skill"

Several German panzer divisions would disagree.

[Revis Volek]

Davegt27, on 02 April 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

Oh so now we are cheaters

Gee flipping wiz a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Hour after hour, fight after fight, drop after drop, we took some planets back
Very few 12 man teams but we have great callers and leaders

I am glad I was there to be part of the great FRR counter offensive

Davegt27

No one called you a CHEATER i think you need to settle down a bit.

You had more numbers then us, all weekend. Russ has posted numbers that show us this was so. I dont know where you are getting those delusions that YOUR LEADERSHIP was to blame for taking so many planets. You coordinated well i will give you that but even with NO coordination (which i love how everyone takes it as THEY coordinated all the 2000 PUGS to attack the same planet. There is only so many queues for every factions and it was a matter of time before it flooded.

The GREAT FRR counter offensive is half way bolstered by a system that can be cheated. You may wear that as you wish but it really is more telling in how broken the system is rather then how well you all coordinated. Even without coordination that many solos flooding the queues would have produced the same outcome. Weather they were IS or Clan you would have seen and experienced the same thing we did if we had the numbers and you did not.

Which this should be NO SURPRISE to anyone who has played CW since implementation. CLANS slam queues and ready up VERY FAST in order to keep you on the defense. Especially when ONE 12 came to defend 2 12's in the queue One got constant GD's and the other got CONSTANT Attacks. I'm just glad it is coming to light in the numbers finally....Took large pop numbers to show ho bad it truly was.

[Gas Guzzler]

Seph MacLeod, on 02 April 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

I thought the reason Smokey Js rolled through your space was because 'Clans are tots OP. Voice chat is unfair, Premades vs Pugs, team work OP, Timber God and DoomCrow! PLz nerf, Halp PGI thanks kaka!"

because that's all I ever saw from IS side, not an actual telling of why the CW system was broken. If that was a thread or four then I never saw it, cause i'd of surely looked at it. not that PGI would of seen it any way.

You will never see a post of mine complaining about Clans being OP. Yes there are whiners everywhere blaming their match losses on being at a disadvantage. You have IS player thinking Clan mechs are OP and Clan players thinking IS mechs are OP. Personally I think balance is close enough, because NS has no problem winning the majority of our matches. But yeah, I'm pretty sure the stance of HK as a whole was never that we couldn't win against OP clan mechs, it was that we would win 95+% of our matches and still lose planets.

[Stealth Fox]

Roadkill, on 02 April 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

WTF are you talking about? Superior numbers absolutely should beat superior skill. That's even canon in BattleTech. It's also historically accurate in the real world.

Superior skill can only take you so far when you're being overwhelmed by superior numbers.

The history of the United States Marine Corps disagrees and would like a word with you.

As well as the battle of Thermopylae

and Brittan vs Hitlers war machine.

Edited by Seph MacLeod, 02 April 2015 - 01:20 PM.

[Deathlike]

Davers, on 02 April 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

There were more people playing CW at any given time then some people claimed play the game period. I think those were pretty good numbers.

Unfortunately, last night, CW was far more barren than pre-event... most likely due to burnout or just PUGs finding out what CW is like.

It was pretty sad.

Those numbers are supposed to be "consistent" and not spiked because of the event. Some of us envisioned a CW like that, but that has never manifested itself past the initial deployment where everyone was trying to figure out the newness of CW. Unless more weekend CW events happen to see how this should play out (especially after fixing a terrible flaw in the system), CW isn't really going to get much better than that until more serious changes are made.

[Revis Volek]

Cathy, on 02 April 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

not cheating just unware of the fact CW doesn't account for numbers

ahh but CW DOES account for numbers...its doesnt ACCOUNT for you if you have lack of numbers.

[Appogee]

Burktross, on 02 April 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

The IS was using larger numbers to win the game unfairly.

No. IS players were just playing CW. Noone - not IS, nor Clan - knew there was any kind of problem with the match making algorithm which would unfairly advantage one side or the other.

Burktross, on 02 April 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

The IS was using larger numbers to win the game unfairly.

No-one "made use" of the faulty algorithm. How could they? None of us even knew it existed until today.

Burktross, on 02 April 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

By making use of this, they were effectively exploiting the system.

One cannot exploit a broken algorithm when one doesn't even know the broken algorithm exists.

Sure, it turns out the IS were unfairly advantaged by this unknown problem. But no-one "exploited it", or "cheated", as you are alleging.

To "exploit" it, and "cheat", one would first have to know about the problem and decide to take advantage of it. Neither was the case here.

And that's the truth of the matter whether it's underlined, in bold, or large fonts.

[Sorbic]

Lily from animove, on 02 April 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

can someone tell me in which way ecm is influencing CW? seriously, I mean the attacklanes are a clear sight and you will see them coming. with Voip is easy to tell others where they are and lrm's were awlays bad and are bad, so ecm is one of my most "i do not care" things my opponent can bring.


W3 hardpoint locations at the shadow cat and cauldron born, DAYM, this is going to be superinteresting.

As someone else has already said the quick map pop ups and doritos will always be a boon and especially so when playing with pugs/small teams. Denying targeting info can be a big bonus if the person shooting at you reads the paper doll to know which bits to pop off.

And of course although folks like to pretend that good players don't take LRM damage and only bad players use them we all know, or should know, that's a load of poo. With all of the ECM and some AMS LRMs aren't the best choice for CW but they can and do still play a decent role in some maps.

[Burktross]

Appogee, on 02 April 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

[/b]No. IS players were just playing CW. Noone - not IS, nor Clan - knew there was any kind of problem with the match making algorithm which would unfairly advantage one side or the other.

[/b]No-one "made use" of the faulty algorithm. How could they? None of us even knew it existed until today.

One cannot exploit a broken algorithm when one doesn't even know the broken algorithm exists.

Sure, it turns out the IS were unfairly advantaged by this unknown problem. But no-one "exploited it", or "cheated", as you are alleging.

To "exploit" it, and "cheat", one would first have to know about the problem and decide to take advantage of it. Neither was the case here.

And that's the truth of the matter whether it's underlined, in bold, or large fonts.

You sure about that? We have an admission of guilt right here.

ManaValkyrie, on 02 April 2015 - 03:52 AM, said:

The sad thing is that this *bug/feature* has been noticeable well before the weekend event, Kurita players have been aware of it since the counter/hold game mode came into effect in CW.