19 replies to this topic

[Kali Rinpoche]

So I finally started on the Blackjacks, my next to last medium to finish, and I could use some feedback on what other models to buy.

I am leaning toward the 1DC and either the BJ3 or the BJ-1X.

I would like to hear from the community about which of the 4 standard BJ you would go with.

1DC - AC2's and MLS. (especially laser hard points in the arms) Really enjoying ac2's of late. Better hard points over all than the BJ-1.

BJ-3 I've seen some really good PPC flying snipers in these. Would not be huge change from leveling panthers recently.

BJ-1X b/c of the engine cap, but seems just like a 10 ton heavier Firestarter.

Anyways, thanks in advance for your advice.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 05 May 2015 - 05:53 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

I mastered the 1X before quirks were put in, so my set up, and tactics might not mesh with the "new" black jack styles.

However for me, I enjoyed the 1X (Named him "Boxer" for the fighting style). It runs really hot, so until you get it to full elites, it can get testy.

BJ-1X

That was my build (had an XL 295 laying around, so I slapped it in immediately). The mech is fast, and packs a mean wallop. Just DO NOT ALPHA, not unless it's a real teeth gnasher of a fight. I had my left arm as weapon group 1 (LMB), Right arm as WG 2 (RMB), and the MPLs as WG3 (MB3). Used the MLs at "range", and once I closed in, it was a simple rotation of left punch (LMB), right punch(RMB), chest bump(MB3), to ruin someone's day. It's a 42 point alpha, but use it very sparingly.

If you use cooldown modules, be even more careful, as the heat will ramp up FAST.

The BJ-1X is sometimes viewed as the black sheep of the family, since it has no JJ capability. However, it compensates by having better engine ratings. No other black jack in the game can keep up with lights. This baby will clock in at over 116Kph, letting it be quite helpful for mobile strike forces, and also be useful with flanking maneuvers, since it can get there faster than most other guys. If the 1X had ECM, it would have been the perfect package for me.

I've also seen people run around with XL280s, and LPLs in the thing. Pretty mean, so the build potential with it is quite fun, even if it doesn't have access to it's siblings' iconic ballistic arsenal.

[Nullmancer]

I also levelled Blackjacks before quirks, but I play the BJ-1 and 1X regularly, the Arrow hardly at all and the 3, very rarely. The 1DC I never ran.


The BJ-1 is my most played mech by far. I play in a near stock mode with 2 AC 2's and 4 med lasers, 4 jumpjets, and a 225 XL engine.

The 1 works, not in a glamorous or brutally effective way, but it can do the job. Handle the limitations and strengths,(jumpjets!), of the chassis well and it'll serve.


1X is in a standard med laser boat build with 295 engine, wish it had jumpjets though.

The 1X is good, very good, if you can handle the limitations of the chassis, which the worst I find is lack of jumpjets. Shooting over partial cover, going hull down if you will, is a necessary tactic for BJ's and the 1X's 8 med lasers do that handily.


The Arrow is in a 2 lpl, 6 mg XL engine build, kinda sucks these days. The Arrow has lost its luster with me. It can be made to work I guess, but meh.


The 3 has 3 l laser and 3 med laser, kinda anemic. Had 2 ppc's and 4 med lasers, heat issues, meh. 2 lpl with 4 spl, amusing, better with heat due to range difference. The 3 l laser and 3 med lasers build is kinda meh, was trying something new and haven't bothered to put in anything else.


The 1DC I avoided back in the day because it didn't have jumpjets, I still avoid it.




So, my suggestions would be to pick up BJ-1, or 1DC if you prefer no jumpjets, and the 1X.

[Kali Rinpoche]

Thank you both for your input! I think I will definitely go with the 1X and J then.

[GI Journalist]

I've had a lot of fun with Blackjacks and recommend them highly. For me, nothing in the game has topped going out in a blaze of glory in the Arrow, gunning down a fresh Dire Wolf as a Star of Clanners moved in for what they must have thought would be an easy kill.

The BJ-3 is another favorite of mine. It is the pride and joy of the Capellans, designed during the 4th Succession War and put into full production by the St. Ives Compact. Then like any good Capellan design it was promptly stolen by the Federated Suns military. I can hardly blame them. The Davion upgraded BJ-2 Blackjack was a hot mess and has yet to appear in the game.

[IraqiWalker]

GI Journalist, on 07 May 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

I've had a lot of fun with Blackjacks and recommend them highly. For me, nothing in the game has topped going out in a blaze of glory in the Arrow, gunning down a fresh Dire Wolf as a Star of Clanners moved in for what they must have thought would be an easy kill.

The BJ-3 is another favorite of mine. It is the pride and joy of the Capellans, designed during the 4th Succession War and put into full production by the St. Ives Compact. Then like any good Capellan design it was promptly stolen by the Federated Suns military. I can hardly blame them. The Davion upgraded BJ-2 Blackjack was a hot mess and has yet to appear in the game.

Let's not bring that unfortunate piece of technology here, soon. XP.

[Nullmancer]

not to go against the propaganda or anything

but just to let you know the Blackjack was originally built in Davion space, sold to the Star League, Star League went 'meh', sold it to the houses, all hell broke loose, Star League went bye bye's, SLDF left and became Clams, badda bing, badda boom, Fourth Succession War happened, St Ives Commonality broke off from the Capellan Confederation and became an independant state, the Davion's licensed the Blackjack design to St Ive's, probably because St Ives no longer had parts and supply for their Vindicator's anymore, Splitters! and the Davion's always liked the Blackjack but it had been out of production since its factory got blowed up in the first or second Succession War, so having St Ives produce the Blackjack is a win/win for both the Davion's and uh, St Ives.

The Capellan's however, dislike the Blackjack, according to lore they "have nothing but contempt for the design" and the Davion's are infamous for having a fetish for autocannons.

however, I'm remembering now that St Ives was producing the BJ-3 before they left the Confederation, but during the Fourth Succession War, because they stole the double heat sinks required for it from the Davion's and Lyran's. Then when they split, they had to hand over the majority of their Blackjacks to the Davions. They kept some though and continued to produce the design. Thank gawd for Sarna.

---> http://www.sarna.net...ack_(BattleMech) <---

The hot mess you talk about was errated with double heatsinks, so it's probably not that bad. I mean, I would've done it differently, its still kinda crappy.

Also, I am an irrational fan of the Blackjack, since way before MWO rolled around, even though I've never once played the board game.









Don't judge me

Edited by Nullmancer, 08 May 2015 - 06:23 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

I love the BJ chassis, and your knowledge of the lore is virtually spot on. Especially with the AC fetish, we Davs love hearing those cannons roar.

[Nullmancer]

/highfive


hey Iraqiwalker, we should drop some time eh?

[IraqiWalker]

Nullmancer, on 08 May 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

/highfive


hey Iraqiwalker, we should drop some time eh?

Absolutely! I'd love that.

[El Mala Muerte Pollo]

I mastered my Blackjacks before quirks so I sold all when I bought an Arrow. I used to run it with AC20 and 3-4 ML and getting decent matches. After quirks this setup kind of sucks. Now I run the Arrow with 2 LPLs and a MPL. Which is not so much fun and I am less successful with it.
So I bought a 1DC again and use the AC20 setup. And it is still fun. Yes the mech cant jump, but has and additional Module Slot.
AC20 are allways fun!

[Nullmancer]

i think the BJ-1 also has the extra slot as well, just sayin'

[Mauadib]

I absolutely love my BJs (all jokes with that statement aside) they are friggin amazing mediums to me. I have the Arrow, BJ3 and BJ1.


The fits I've settled on with the 3 of those are a pretty standard dual LPL build for the Arrow.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5f74c9281fc9626

With the other two I decided to make builds that went with their quirks and they seem to work really well if you adapt your playstyle to fit what is on the mech.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc9cf42d91dbd95

With the BJ-1 I put two AC/2s and two MPLs on it. With the quirks the AC/2s just don't stop firing and I've been able to rack up a good number of kills and damage in a support role. Finding a bigger guy to roll with and peppering whatever he/she is engaging with the AC/2s while using the MPL to add damage or finish things off without having to waste ammo.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d70bd6940823213

The BJ3 has to be my favorite though. With the quirks and depending on the map I'm able to get about 6 or so vollies of PPC off before having to cool down. Or I can alternate them and basically keep a ppc heading at someone constantly for a good while. The MLs are for when stuff gets closer of course. Though I'm thinking of changing them to something else, not sure what yet.

[JC Daxion]

I just picked up an arrow too, My pick for the other 2 chassis are the BJ-1 ac-2 build, and BJ-2 PPC build, should go nice with the arrow

[Nullmancer]

hey muauadib, you can do this to your bj 3 build and improve your land speed while only losing 1% cooling

BJ-3


also, the Arrow build is interesting... no rear armor, one jumpjet, slow standard engine. For a mech that sorta has a chase em and finish em off role, I cant see it doing it very well. I'd prefer the stock build over that any day of the week. I don't mean to criticize harshly but it seems terrible.

ARROW

with this you get the fastest land speed, full complement of jumpjets, rear armor, somewhat lighter than I'd use, but still there. Now you can juke, dodge and run down wounded mech's. If you cant afford the XL, or really want to run standard engine, I'd say run the Arrow stock.


BJ-1 isnt that bad, lack of rear armor though, blows my mind.

BJ-1(C)

that is my current and long time build for my BJ-1, for comparison.


BJ-1(C)

and this is how I would interpret your's. I prefer the punch of four med lasers regardless of heat concerns, but perhaps the pulse's are better for you.

I apologize again for the criticism, but I feel I can help you out a lot by doing this.




and to add, I strongly feel that the only engine sizes you should consider using for BJ's are the 225 and 235. You get 9 internal heatsinks starting with the 225, with the proper 2x heat sinkage, decent land speed and you save on internal spaces by only requiring one more external heatsink to hit the magic ten heat sink to drop rule. The 235 is a half ton heavier but you gain a bit of landspeed, which I would strongly argue is more useful for the Arrow then either the BJ-1 or -3.

Edited by Nullmancer, 17 May 2015 - 03:11 PM.

[xDust]

As much as I enjoy AC/2 BJ-1s, it's just so annoying to try and put reasonable damage downrange when:

A. The target starts moving back into cover and twists away the damage.
B. The target is just moving in on you and while they alpha into your face, you have to keep facing them while they twist away the damage.
C. The mech starts overheating because lolAC2heat.
D. It's a light mech and you do piddling damage when you manage a hit, despite spamming rounds, while it runs circles around you.
E. Some combination of all of the above.

I love the dakka. It's absolutely fun. But I feel way more effective with 2xAC/5. And I end up doing more damage. And usually more component destructs. Because it whacks 10 damage per hit out to 600 meters. Every ~1.5 seconds. 137 rounds of ammo usually lasts me an entire, long match. 2 MLs for backup. Never overheats unless I really have to brawl with all my weapons. XL225 and 2 (or 3?) JJs.

[Nullmancer]

Honestly, with the stock weapons build for me, the AC's are there to distract and annoy, the medium lasers are the real threat of the build.

Advantages of the AC 2's are it can fire from a distance with minimal clue as to where it was fired from, make an annoying sound when they hit and distract some enemy assault from making mincemeat of one of your buddies, and can be stagger-fired for optimum irritation. The stagger fire is also handy for securing kills

Another thing to consider is that you can hold down the trigger for however long you have the target in your sights and have a nearly continuous stream of damage banging on their mech, other ballistics, machine guns excepted, just don't do that and encourage a peek and shoot gameplay, giving your enemy a reprieve of sorts.

Edited by Nullmancer, 17 May 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[xDust]

Yeah, but I feel like the AC/5s trade off a little of the suppression ability for a great increase in killing ability. I'd much rather kill something rather than annoy them away. Or not annoy them enough that the enemy keeps on killing their target. Especially if that target is me. ~1.5s RoF for a volley or ~.7s for stagger fire isn't anything to scoff at either. I wouldn't want to even try to face tank something like that if I'm trying to fight something else.

Plus, I can kill things without overheating.

[Mauadib]

Nullmancer, on 17 May 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

I cant see it doing it very well. I'd prefer the stock build over that any day of the week. I don't mean to criticize harshly but it seems terrible.

and to add, I strongly feel that the only engine sizes you should consider using for BJ's are the 225 and 235. You get 9 internal heatsinks starting with the 225, with the proper 2x heat sinkage, decent land speed and you save on internal spaces by only requiring one more external heatsink to hit the magic ten heat sink to drop rule. The 235 is a half ton heavier but you gain a bit of landspeed, which I would strongly argue is more useful for the Arrow then either the BJ-1 or -3.

At the time that I made the build I didn't have the excess c-bills to plop an XL engine. That was me putting together a build with the best standard engine I had lying around at the time. It works just fine too. I have lost side torsos many a time and still been able to fight and help the team win with that setup. It is proven in my mind. The one you linked is fine, and I'd probably use it if I had the c-bills to buy that engine. I have a very similar build saved but it is not the one I run so it is not the one I linked.

One should never take the armor layout in the torsos on a smurfy's link as holy writ. I don't run them with no armor in the back, that was just to fill the tonnage quickly before I realised there was a drop down to max the armor. Seriously... who puts down the EXACT armor values in one of those links? Who doesn't modify them to suit their play? Who does that?

I do also have the elite skills maxed out on all three of these just no mastery yet. So the speeds I'm getting with the tweak on the BJ-1 and BJ-3 are fine for me.

[Nullmancer]

are you working toward a 225 xl at least? it is so so worth it.

I painstakingly adjust armor as appropriate in whatever I build and link in Smurfy, I assumed others did as well. My bad.

and yeah, not so bad with speed twerk I guess.

xDust, on 17 May 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

Yeah, but I feel like the AC/5s trade off a little of the suppression ability for a great increase in killing ability. I'd much rather kill something rather than annoy them away. Or not annoy them enough that the enemy keeps on killing their target. Especially if that target is me. ~1.5s RoF for a volley or ~.7s for stagger fire isn't anything to scoff at either. I wouldn't want to even try to face tank something like that if I'm trying to fight something else.

Plus, I can kill things without overheating.

Agreed on all points said, AC 5's have no real comparison to AC 2's outside of fire rate. I'm not fond of all the sacrifices required to run dual AC 5's myself.

xDust, on 17 May 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

...137 rounds of ammo usually lasts me an entire, long match. 2 MLs for backup. Never overheats unless I really have to brawl with all my weapons. XL225 and 2 (or 3?) JJs.

tried plugging your build into smurfy, how much armor?

BJ-1(C)





you know, I'm going to start a new thread and leave this for Arrow talk

http://mwomercs.com/...bj-1-blackjack/

Edited by Nullmancer, 17 May 2015 - 09:43 PM.