32 replies to this topic

[Quxudica]

When a team can sit right on top of the respawn locations with complete impunity, the supposed camping counter measure of drop ship weapons is clearly a complete joke. The team I was with refused to stop camping and kill the generator even though it was a clear crushing win. This shouldn't be possible. Either the drop locations need to be inaccessible to mechs and mech fire or dropships need to be a serious threat to anything dumb enough to stand under them.

[Novawrecker]

The dropship weapons are fine. It's the cover the camping team is using to defend against them that's OP. Nerf them!

[Mcgral18]

12 ERLLs, those hurt.

7 MLs? Not so much. Could also bump those up to 12.

[Quxudica]

Novawrecker, on 03 April 2015 - 11:30 PM, said:

The dropship weapons are fine. It's the cover the camping team is using to defend against them that's OP. Nerf them!

No cover was used, there were just enough mechs sitting there in the open that the drop ships various lasers were spreading damage completely ineffectively.

Edited by Quxudica, 03 April 2015 - 11:34 PM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

I would prefer an area for both sides wich are safe and out of bounce for the other Team.

[Tarogato]

Novawrecker, on 03 April 2015 - 11:30 PM, said:

The dropship weapons are fine. It's the cover the camping team is using to defend against them that's OP. Nerf them!

No, actually... cover isn't the defining factor here. Dropships that aren't able to eliminate teams that parked underneath them are. That and map design that forces the attacking team to press their way through the defenders dropzones (I'm looking at you, Boreal and Sulphurous.)

Edited by Tarogato, 03 April 2015 - 11:35 PM.

[Insects]

Attacking team can have stronger dropships, to keep defenders out of their spawn.
But if defenders dropships do more damage they will be a problem for attacking team who are supposed to be in defenders spawn.

Really defenders should be coming out of tunnels/buildings in the base.
If defenders get camped then tough, invading their base is the entire point.

[DeathlyEyes]

Or..... Redesign bases so that attackers don't walk through spawns to get to the objectives.

[Sandersson Jankins]

DeathlyEyes, on 04 April 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

Or..... Redesign bases so that attackers don't walk through spawns to get to the objectives.

I think the problem will still be similar. You'll instead develop natural choke-points (or a wide-open field, EVEN BETTER) from the spawn to the objective. Even if there's some magical losttech forcefield thingar stopping them from spawnkilling you...they'll still have 12 guns on any of you without you being able to jockey 12 on them.

Personally, if you are being spawnkilled, there lies an issue with tactics, a blunder on your team's part, DCs, or a very poor matchup. Fixing the "very poor matchup" is probably most important, but most difficult and cumbersome.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 04 April 2015 - 01:06 AM.

[Novawrecker]

Quxudica, on 03 April 2015 - 11:33 PM, said:

No cover was used, there were just enough mechs sitting there in the open that the drop ships various lasers were spreading damage completely ineffectively.

Tarogato, on 03 April 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

No, actually... cover isn't the defining factor here.

Ok, you're both on a "Too Serious" time out . I was kidding around (hence the )

I'm aware that cover is usually not present and that, at times, 7 med laser isn't sufficient (sure hurts if all 3 ships target you though )

Edited by Novawrecker, 04 April 2015 - 01:38 AM.

[Virgil Greyson]

Spawn area should always be safe.

[StraferX]

CW is in ALPHA stage and needs much more content to be of any interest. One way this drop ship camping could be fixed is that say 70% of defending mechs need to be with in +/_ 250m? proximity of the Generator and/or 95% of all defending mechs need to be on defending sides of gates. If this ratio is broken the generator becomes public domain and defending team looses a significant bonus while the attacking team gains that bonus. Then again from my experience drop ship camping is the only way clanners can win

Random thought:
Is my pilot that much of an idiot to just drop me into the broiling nest of the enemy? If the enemy is at the standard drop zone location then a smart pilot would go ahead and drop the team at the unprotected generator for a quick easy win. This is why we need to pilot our own ships.

[STEF_]

Honestly, if a team manage to camp in the enemy team spawn it means that the match is been quite a stomp, and that enemy team played bad.
So not quite an issue, but a way to shorten the agony.

[PACoFist]

StraferX, on 04 April 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

CW is in ALPHA stage and needs much more content to be of any interest. One way this drop ship camping could be fixed is that say 70% of defending mechs need to be with in +/_ 250m? proximity of the Generator and/or 95% of all defending mechs need to be on defending sides of gates. If this ratio is broken the generator becomes public domain and defending team looses a significant bonus while the attacking team gains that bonus. Then again from my experience drop ship camping is the only way clanners can win

Random thought:
Is my pilot that much of an idiot to just drop me into the broiling nest of the enemy? If the enemy is at the standard drop zone location then a smart pilot would go ahead and drop the team at the unprotected generator for a quick easy win. This is why we need to pilot our own ships.

I like this idea. Add 3 more drop zones, then let the player decide before each drop, where he wants to spawn next. This makes spawn camping ineffective, because there are 4 spawn locations to cover and it adds more tactical levels.

[Mercer Skye]

I imagine it's on the short-list of things they'll be working on in CW.

I think the bigger problem, in my humble opinion, is just how easy it is to breach the bases. I understand for sake of encouraging some kind of 'mech on 'mech scuffling, the gate/generator system is the way it is right now. But seriously, these bases have to have been designed by complete morons to have generators that run the gate in a location that direct fire weapons can take them out. I'm honestly not even sure if you can shoot the gate itself, or if the generator is the only option.

Turret defenses are pretty much a joke, and I swear if they'r meant to be tougher.....they're not. Assault grade turrets protecting bases seems bit weak.

If the base does get some kind of overrun. I do not envy the task of figuring out how to figure that out client side, but dropping the defenders outside the base, or just away from the highest concentrations of enemies is great idea.

And that Orbital Cannon....must be made out of recycled coke cans, I swear.

My impressions anyway having really just gotten into CW after quite a long break, but spawn camping, from what I'm seeing, is actually a pretty low priority over some of the things going on.

[Quxudica]

Mercer Skye, on 04 April 2015 - 04:26 AM, said:

I imagine it's on the short-list of things they'll be working on in CW.

I think the bigger problem, in my humble opinion, is just how easy it is to breach the bases. I understand for sake of encouraging some kind of 'mech on 'mech scuffling, the gate/generator system is the way it is right now. But seriously, these bases have to have been designed by complete morons to have generators that run the gate in a location that direct fire weapons can take them out. I'm honestly not even sure if you can shoot the gate itself, or if the generator is the only option.

Turret defenses are pretty much a joke, and I swear if they'r meant to be tougher.....they're not. Assault grade turrets protecting bases seems bit weak.

If the base does get some kind of overrun. I do not envy the task of figuring out how to figure that out client side, but dropping the defenders outside the base, or just away from the highest concentrations of enemies is great idea.

And that Orbital Cannon....must be made out of recycled coke cans, I swear.

My impressions anyway having really just gotten into CW after quite a long break, but spawn camping, from what I'm seeing, is actually a pretty low priority over some of the things going on.

Eh to be honest I was impressed with the base design. Not because it's remotely good, but because of how arbitrary and lazy the objectives in Assault and Conquest are. I swear those game modes still feel like beta place holders and someone just forgot to update them to the released versions.

[Mercer Skye]

Quxudica, on 04 April 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

Eh to be honest I was impressed with the base design. Not because it's remotely good, but because of how arbitrary and lazy the objectives in Assault and Conquest are. I swear those game modes still feel like beta place holders and someone just forgot to update them to the released versions.

True, when you compare CW maps and objective layouts to the 'simulator' modes, it's night and day, I can give on that. But I think that has more to say about the power of building maps specifically for the game mode.

Alpine Peaks...probably would be better getting scrubbed from regular play and slid into the CW rotation (More likely chopped in half, too), since it's a cool map that just never feels fair in those game modes.

Canyon Network, Caustic, River City; Excellent map for Skirmish, relatively lots of options.

I actually think Terra Therma is pretty decent for Assault.

Crimson Straits is actually pretty great for all modes in my opinion (Was a huge improvement over other maps).

And even then, a lot of the regular play maps could still be better tuned for game modes, but heck, that's more effort than is worth, more likely. Would just like to see them made exclusive to the game modes they best play to. (Would probably end up making most of them Skirmish-Only maps, but /shrug)

But, when it seems an awful lot like the CW fight could just be started with the gates open and 5m less on the timer, it just feels like something is off.

But they have the excuse that we're in the bumpy beta (*cough* Alpha *cough*) stage of CW, and given that things have steadily gotten better (May not have played much, but I lurk the fourm ) in most aspects of the game, I maintain my state of high hopes.

[Bulletsponge0]

Stefka Kerensky, on 04 April 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

Honestly, if a team manage to camp in the enemy team spawn it means that the match is been quite a stomp, and that enemy team played bad.
So not quite an issue, but a way to shorten the agony.

or they simply got inside the gate on Sulphur....

[LordKnightFandragon]

Marc von der Heide, on 03 April 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

I would prefer an area for both sides wich are safe and out of bounce for the other Team.

Yeah, every CW Match should have a Hangar area about 300m behind the ODG that is walled in and surrounded by invincible turrets that will shoot any enemy mech that enters either of the 3 mouths of the canyon to go near the base. Attacker DZ should have a Dropship sitting there to guard against anyone who goes closer then like 500m from it.

[Merit Lef]

The spawn team should have a Union Class Dropship permanently stationed to defend the area. I would think twice going up against that.