Replace instant and automatic convergence with fixed convergence instead, but adjustable in the Mech Lab and on the battlefield. Get to the convergence sweet spot before firing or aim your weapons individually.
Now that takes skill. Or do you disagree?
a ) that would be badass and I'd love it to bits.
b ) your suggestion is not one commonly batted around, sadly, but would still penalise large arrays of weapons over smaller numbers of large weapons.
I like both suggestions (lower heat cap + real heat side effects & introduce convergence.
However I wonder if real convergence will just create a new brand of meta: those mechs that have the most weapon hard points in the same location, meaning they still can alpha strike with perfect convergence.
Replace instant and automatic convergence with fixed convergence instead, but adjustable in the Mech Lab and on the battlefield. Get to the convergence sweet spot before firing or aim your weapons individually.
Now that takes skill. Or do you disagree?
I'd agree with everything except the "adjustable... on the battlefield" part.
For "fixed convergence"/"gun harmonization" (see here and here) to have any real meaning, it would have to be something that is set in the 'Mech Lab or something that is pre-set & immutable - it should not be able to be changed at all during a match.
a ) that would be badass and I'd love it to bits.
b ) your suggestion is not one commonly batted around, sadly, but would still penalise large arrays of weapons over smaller numbers of large weapons.
I do not think so. Large arrays of weapons are just as deadly if fired at the sweet spot as a smaller number of larger weapons. And if you fire outside of the sweet spot, the cost of partially missing is not as much when compared to a smaller number of larger weapons.
Is there a case where you think might be so?
Shadow Magnet, on 04 April 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:
I like both suggestions (lower heat cap + real heat side effects & introduce convergence.
However I wonder if real convergence will just create a new brand of meta: those mechs that have the most weapon hard points in the same location, meaning they still can alpha strike with perfect convergence.
How so, especially in relation to what I said above?
a ) that would be badass and I'd love it to bits.
b ) your suggestion is not one commonly batted around, sadly, but would still penalise large arrays of weapons over smaller numbers of large weapons.
Which would pretty much lead to the same result of less overall output.
As for set convergeance, that something like an WWII Fighter plane? How you set convergance to like 350m, and the shots will converge there?
BUt what if we fire chain fire? THen it would be 1 weapon going where we want it....basically all ends in teh same result of less damage output.
I'd agree with everything except the "adjustable... on the battlefield" part.
For "fixed convergence"/"gun harmonization" (see here and here) to have any real meaning, it would have to be something that is set in the 'Mech Lab or something that is pre-set & immutable - it should not be able to be changed at all during a match.
I think having convergence adjustable in-battle is fine. This will give the pilot the chance to adjust settings as battle conditions dictate. For example, if the battle starts as a long range engagement, then the player can set convergence to long distance. And if the pilot's intent is to rain suppressive fire on the enemy, convergence can be set to really long range or "infinity", thus being able to dish out a wide volume of fire. Alternatively, the pilot can set the convergence to short distance if the battles shifts into a brawl.
The chosen mechanic just needs to feel as if it is not automatic (e.g.setting convergence distance via a dial or direct input).
Just put a tiny limit on how often you can alpha strike in a 3 second period.
Hotthedd, on 04 April 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:
Alpha strikes with PPFLD PLUS being able to destroy/disable a mech due to component hitboxes is the problem.
Another means of reducing the prevalence of "massive PPFLD Alpha Strikes" effect with even single-projectile (e.g. front-loaded damage) weapons is to couple the introduction of a recoil mechanic with the introduction of a short universal cooldown.
The universal cooldown can be very short - even just 0.10s (one-tenth of one second) would do the job.
That that combination would do is create the situation where simultaneously triggering multiple weapons (as with an Alpha Strike) would not allow all of the weapons to actually fire simultaneously; instead, the weapons would very quickly fire sequentially.
Take, for example, the classis "2 PPC + 2 AC/5" combination. Under this system, triggering all of the weapons simultaneously would produce the following effect:
the first weapon would fire at t = 0.00s (e.g. when the trigger is pulled)
the second weapon would fire at t = 0.10s (e.g. 0.10s after the first weapon fires)
the third weapon would fire at t = 0.20s (e.g. 0.10s after the second weapon fires)
the fourth weapon would fire at t = 0.30s (e.g. 0.10s after the third weapon fires)
With no compensation/counteraction from the player, the recoil from the first weapon would turn/elevate the torso slightly, so that the reticle is not sitting on the same pixel when the second weapon fires, the recoil from the second weapon would turn/elevate the torso slightly more, so that the reticle is sitting further from original same pixel when the third weapon fires, and the recoil from the third weapon would turn/elevate the torso still more, so that the reticle is sitting even further from the same pixel when the fourth weapon fires.
The same system (combined recoil with forced non-simultaneous firing) was used, with success, in From Software's Chromehounds.
With a similar system in place, "pinpoint" Alpha Strikes would become far less prevalent - a small percentage of players would have the adaptability + will to learn how to manually compensate (as both components would be effectively macro-proof), while the majority would simply no longer be able to place all of the damage of 3+ high-recoil weapons on a single pixel (or perhaps even a single location) at long range (or even medium range, depending on the individual).
If only PGI had the coding muscles to pack convergeance, hitreg and collisions into an elegant and efficient set of netcode...
Ultimately the solution to TTK, Alphastrikes and GH is a real heat penalty scale.
Example:
0-20% heat - no effect
20-40% heat - 5% speed reduction
40-50% heat - 5% all CD increase
50-60% heat - 10% speed reduction
60-70% heat - 10% all CD increase
80-90% heat - 30% speed reduction and CD increase
90-95% heat - 10% chance to do 0.5 DPS to random internals
95-100% heat - 30% chance to do 1 DPS to random internals
100+% - 2 DPS to all locations internals, random components in each location, automated shutdown
Now this is just an example, not the ultimate balanced version, but you could add this as well as warnings from Betty and markings on the heat scale and now keeping your heat managed is a clear task with real consequences, not just overheat shutdown. 90-95% is not the redzone but not auto shutdown so you have to decide if you want to redline it or run at a safe level.
Didn't CB have something like this at a time before "FireEverything" became the norm?
Didnt ammo pops happen more frequently as well? I didnt play CB much, the no mouse settings killed it for me. barely touch the mouse and the reticule went wild.
The convergence is only part of the problem. Its the stacking of the 6 large lasers, or 8 SPL that is the issue. Pinpoint shots wouldn't be as bad if the Mech lab wasn't a train wreck of abuse waiting to happen.
Another thread complaining about the ability to aim. These never get boring
Your solution would just reward the use of small numbers of larger weapons rather than arrays of smaller weapons also at least partially remove the capacity to aim accurately meaning more of the game would be decided by luck.
That adding a luck mechanic to the game would increase the influence of luck and decrease the influence of skill is not so much a strawman as an inevitable result.
Unless you can find a way to add a luck mechanic without any luck being involved?
That's exactly what I meant, someone always says that. There's no luck involved at all though.
If shots spread in a predictable way then there's no question of luck or randomness. Simply a question of whether you have the skill and knowledge to allow for a known factor in gameplay.
To be honest I've no desire to argue this all over again, It's been discussed to death for years and we now know that there's no chance of a proper convergence fix anyway. All we need to sort out is what should be done from the list of remaining options that might actually happen.
1. Get rid of almost all of the quirks. I have been playing this game since before the Raven came out. No one needed quirks then and they dont need them now. Stop using the mech for other than it was intended and it will work fine.
2. Any quirks should be below 5% and avoid stacking quirks. I have used a JM6-DD with 3XUAC-5 before and after quirks and it feels cheap now. If i surprise my foe, it is usually a foregone conclusion. Really my only limitation is ammo.
3. Lose PP firing unless stationary for 5+ seconds, and by stationary I mean no forward or backward, no torso, and no arm movements.
4. Collision damage. I alpha any light or medium I see when in an assault as I hate having them charge straight at me, glitch through, and then shoot me in the back, or slow me down so their teammates can have an easy target. Both are tactics I don't see often, but I have seen them enough that I try to prevent them any way I can.
These are a good start to me.
This is not blind monk online - stop your rage against convergence or heat system or whatever, when it comes to Alpha Strike. Blaming in a shooter game the sniper etc. for hitting you from far away with headshots or the guy who await you when you inappropriately run around corners is just not his fault or the fault the game mechanic, it is a fault of self reflecting skill and doing the right things at the right time.
This is ridiculous. My most effective mechs are My 6LL stalker that fires two groups of 3 and my 5 ERLL T-Bolt that is a group of 2 (the high mounts)followed by 3.
8
Mystere, on 04 April 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:
