It's kinda funny to hear that DDO has elitists. That's the last game where I would have expected them. And yes, this community is even too nice. We maybe should get a more military tone and drill cadets instead of padding them on the head until they get their first kill.
The last few weeks I played it, all the parties I found were "lvl 20 true reincarnate only no xp loot only" runs for the demon queen in the sands. And good luck getting started, because all the level 1s were true reincarnates of the previously level 20s.
If your toon looked like you weren't wearing optimized gear, well, out you went.
due to the earlier post about the Mad Dog looking like the Vulture I thought you may want a bit more information about this, as you may be aware, most of the early invasion Clan Mechs were given a code name by Inner Sphere forces, this information may be useful because on many occasions I have heard someone over VOIP say something along the lines of "I need help with Alpha the Daishi" (meaning the Dire Wolf with an A above it in the HUD when targeted).
the list below is in the following format Clan Name (Inner Sphere name)
Myst Lynx (Koshi)
Kit Fox (Uller)
Adder (Puma)
Ice Ferret (Fenris)
Nova (Black Hawk)
Stormcrow (Ryuken)
Mad Dog (Vulture)
Hellbringer (Loki)
Summoner (Thor)
Timber Wolf (Mad Cat)
Gargoyle (Man o War)
War Hawk (Masakari)
Dire Wolf (Daishi)
coming soon as part of the Clan Wave Three pack https://mwomercs.com/wavethree
Arctic Cheetah (Hanku)
Shadow Cat (Shadow Cat)
Ebon Jaguar (Cauldron-Born)
Executioner (Gladiator)
As a general rule of thumb when purchasing IS mechs, you'll want to have 2 times the cost of any mech banked before making a purchase. When you start spending cash on egines, upgrading to double heat sinks, etc. you'll run through as much as the stock mech cost to begin with.
Clan mechs on the other hand, are locked to their engine, so they are much cheaper to customize. Yes, they are more expensive up front, but you can't swap engines, change Heat sink or armor type. You can drop a lot of cash on weapon changes, but the big ticket items are locked.
Thanks for all the help, guys. It's nice to walk into a game community and not get shot down by elitists.
You're welcome.
Now people will 'shoot down' the LBX, just because "zomg spread damage = weak."
You're gonna have far worse damage spread with Clan autocannons than you will with LBX. Case in point.
LBX 20 up to 270 meters = damn near pinpoint single bullet (it only starts to spread at about 260 meters).
AC/20 (UAC/20) = 5 shots to do 20 damage, fired in series with 0.17 seconds between each round (so Shot at 0 seconds + .17 + .17 + .17 + .17 = 0.68 second delay before the cooldown will even begin.)
So contrary to what the "competitive" players say, LBX weapons are very effective for the Clans. For the IS you get triple range instead of double, but when compared to the wonky way PGI has chosen to do IS autocannons, the LBX is theoretically inferior.
Thus there is some merit to what they say, yet at times they don't know jack 'cause they clearly don't use them or simply take the word of others without trying it for themselves.
Here's another good example. Twin LBX20 + twin SRM-6.
First kill is about 2 and a half minutes in and is almost instant.
Later, a timber wolf is slain in about two salvos.
Other mechs, some tankier and some just really lucky with hit detection, take a couple more shots but even Stalkers get turned to mince meat by this thing. My only issue was ammo; Warhawks leave a lot to desire for free tonnage on low heat builds.
My favorite Atlas build was the LB-10X "hillbilly shotgun" D-DC. I had to give it up for the Clan Invasion because of the effect that their massively mobile heavies had on PuG play, but I'm seriously considering trying it for CW.
Peanuckle, on 04 April 2015 - 09:58 PM, said:
Thanks for all the help, guys. It's nice to walk into a game community and not get shot down by elitists.
*traumatic memories of DDO*
I've been loving the LBX on the Stormcrow. It's saved my rear more times than I care to admit, and the effects are satisfying. I'll probably try to swap out the lasers for an AC of some measure. Heat buildup is a rough problem, though I understand that the trial mechs are particularly vulnerable to it.
Like others have suggested, I've played with the Stormcrow and the Hellbringer and I like them both. I've tried to use the Mad Dog (it looks like the Vulture and I loved that) but I can't missleboat for crap. My instinct is to get into knife-fighting range, not sit on the corners and shoot at red reticules.
So what I'm seeing from the money aspect is that I'll be buying one mech that I'll rely on for a long time and focus on refitting rather than buying up several mechs. Making a good choice of mech seems paramount. Will I be able to use trial mechs after making my purchase?
Optimal engagement range for LRMs is about 300m. Might be less for Clan LRMs because of the way they stream, but that distance is enough that most 'mechs can't abuse your minimum range very quickly, while still giving them very little time to react and find cover from your barrage - if cover is to be had. LRM boats who sit in the back and cry about "holding locks" don't know what they're doing. =)
PS: Absolutely you can use the trials after buying a 'mech - they're free to everyone.
So contrary to what the "competitive" players say, LBX weapons are very effective for the Clans. For the IS you get triple range instead of double, but when compared to the wonky way PGI has chosen to do IS autocannons, the LBX is theoretically inferior.
Thus there is some merit to what they say, yet at times they don't know jack 'cause they clearly don't use them or simply take the word of others without trying it for themselves.
Well, the shot at 2:22 at the latter video you posted clearly shows why "competitive" players consider LBX bad. You have a Stalker in your aims, completely in the open. About 500m away. It's slow, it's big, it's close, you get a free shot. You could easily pinpoint your full damage to any chosen point on it, using almost any other projectile or beam weapon in the game. BOOM. The LBX20s hit EVERY part of that Stalker, and 50% of the pellets still MISS. And that's for weapons that take 24 tons, not including ammo.
That's just not very efficient no matter how you're looking at it.
That said, the game looks very different depending on what level of Elo you're playing. What's not comptetitively viable at all, may still easily be usable, and even efficient in casual games.
The bigger LBXs are low-heat, high DPS weapons, and thus can be nice if your typical enemies aren't exceptional shots at long ranges, allowing you to get close. Should be pretty safe for new players.
LB-10X autocannons also put out a lot of damage which can be focused on components at very close ranges, which makes them excellent weapons for knife-range brawling in a disruptive environment. The closer you are, the less the spread matters, so if you're working with a team there are places and times in CW that you can put LB-X autocannons to good use. However, the only way that the LB-X really works well is at close range. At 500m, of course you're not going to do much - but then, you're not bringing them for 500m combat.
No offense and you are giving a valid point... Still, you chose the moment I used a shotgun as a sniper rifle to tell me that is why they are terrible?
First, the optimum range is 360 meters (same as Clan AC/20s and ultra 20s). However, making the same shot on the same target at the same speed using the Clan ACs or Ultra 20s, would likely result in 2 out of each set of 5 rounds having missed regardless at that range.
The Linear Dropoff of damage is in percentage, so the higher the damage of the bullet, the more the individual bullet loses.
Lets assume for a moment that only 10 out of 20 pellets of each LBX-20 had hit their target.
500 meters is almost 40% of 2x range, so, we have a 40% damage loss. 12 damage.
Now lets take the AC/20s or UAC/20s, and assume a single firing from each.
Each trigger pull yields 5 shots. Each 'shot' does 4 damage at normal range. 2.4 damage at this range.
Assume that 6 out of 10 shots hit their target.
14.4 damage.
So I lost a 2.4 damage potential at that range, and given how sensitive my mouse is I likely would have missed more than 2/5 or 4/10 shots in an attempt to correct and lead the target with those slow bullets.
Which, LBX-20 rounds travel at 1,100 meters per second.
UAC/20 and AC/20 rounds travel at 650 meters per second. So the assumption of losing a minimum of 2 shots per volley is perfectly valid at that range unless using weight consuming targeting computers, which would impair the build even more.
You're hardly losing anything. Worse, because of the spread at the time of firing and since Clan ACs continue to use the same convergence point as the moment you pressed the trigger, you'd get a nasty spread. Instead of "every body part" which would tell me "Hey, there's a weak point here!", I would get "Hey, you made his torso and his arm yellow, aren't you proud of yourself?"
And what the thing showed me, right off the bat, is that the Stalker's left leg is severely shortened in how much armor it has.
Weakpoint exposed. Something I would never get with a "precision" weapon.
My point, is that there is a lot more to the use of a weapon than "can I snipe against someone at long range?"
If I wanted that, I'd use a shotgun in Battlefield 3. (Kinda priceless, you'll know when you see the moment I'm talking about). Because there, shotguns are designed to your expectation of being able to snipe down helicopters with an 8x scope and high explosive rounds, far better than you could ever dream of doing with a sniper rifle.
Now, getting back to being serious, there is the reduced heat as you mentioned, very precious when you are fatter than an Atlas. There is no safe time to 'power down' or 'overheat' or become 'stationary. The mech may be fast for what it is, but it still cannot handle the situation if it were to shut down. Furthermore, the enhanced speed comes as its own godsend. "20" rounds from the Ultra are ungodly, horrifically slooooow.
Even on the IS, the difference between an LBX-10 and an AC/10 is 150 meters per second (kinda sloppy, but here, the AC/10 can deal 0 damage at 950 meters. LBX-10 can go out to 950 meters and still deal 5 damage total, or 0.5 damage per pellet. And even before quirks, certain mechs clearly had better spread patterns than others. Of them, interestingly enough, is the Highlander. Victors used to have some really b.s. lack of spread, too. And Dragons? My god... they didn't really have any spread for a little while. Though for some really b.s. lack of spread.. Take a Firestarter. I'm serious.
Anyway. Then again, we're talking about my use of the weapons, and I've done this with Flamers. Tylerchu can attest to having seen that one personally.
Spoiler
Of course, Stalkers are 'hardly competitive' until the 6 LL quirk and lightening up of ghost heat. Heh, heh.
But, I do digress, the optimal way to use an LBX is paired with other weapons.
Such as this twin LBX + UAC/5 Cataphract of mine as seen in the chase cam.
This twin LBX, flamer, MG Jagermech of mine as seen in this chase cam. (Torso twist is useless!)
And this Heavy Metal, which pairs the LBX with an AC/2, 3 ML and 2 Streaks for amazing results (skip until after 6 minutes after seeing the first score screen, unless you want some basic idea of what the battlegrid icons mean).
I need to get some new videos out, but at the moment I'm waiting on a new decent headset. I tried putting together a video with the temporary one I have, and I wanted to rip my ears out...
No offense and you are giving a valid point... Still, you chose the moment I used a shotgun as a sniper rifle to tell me that is why they are terrible?
No offense taken, nor intended.
Just to clarify, I'm not on a hunt to somehow prove you wrong or anything. The only reason I saw and commented on that one moment is because it was close to the point in the video that you specifically instructed to watch.
And I felt it was a pretty typical scenario in which you have brought LBXs and hope you had something else. Like Gauss. At least I felt that, just watching the video.
The sad part is, that currently - in capable hands - Gauss just dominates the other clan ballistics at mid to long ranges, and suffers only minimally in close ranges to boot. It also has virtually no heat, and pairs just as well with other weapons. I'm hoping that near future adjustments to the clan AC velocities and/or mech quirks will further improve their competitive viability.
The sad part is, that currently - in capable hands - Gauss just dominates the other clan ballistics at mid to long ranges, and suffers only minimally in close ranges to boot. It also has virtually no heat, and pairs just as well with other weapons. I'm hoping that near future adjustments to the clan AC velocities and/or mech quirks will further improve their competitive viability.
Definitely, they are supposed to be like that. Though my struggles with the charge mechanic make it a bit rough on me. Before the charge mechanic I was pretty well known for a Catapult with a Gauss Rifle and LBX combo. "Wham!" Armor's gone. "Shotty!" Ammo explosion! "ZOMG hackzors!" People stopped doing ammo in the legs for a short while.
Gauss Rifles and PPCs/ERPPCs are supposed to be the best ballistic weapons of 3050 and before. However, they are supposed to be very scarce for firing. Wait times of 6 or 7 seconds minimum before being able to use it again is fairly accurate (until Wiz Kids got the Battletech license).
Unrelated to MWO but very BT related:
Spoiler
ACs are actually supposed to pump out between a minimum of 4 shots to several hundred shots to deal their stated damage.
A Victor's Pontiac/100 is an AC/20 that specifically is supposed to pump out 100 shots in a single second, then spend 3 seconds reloading through the primary feed in which it must lock its arm upward to do so (as it feeds a magazine by 'pooping' it out of the shoulder into the forearm). Should the arm "move" during that 3 seconds, from impact or anything else, it would jam. That would end up requiring the manual reloading method of extruding a cassette through the right torso on the little port you see in the original art, grabbing it by the left hand and inserting it into the arm (increasing reload time from 3 seconds to 7 seconds). Of course this isn't reflected in the ruleset, just the fluff and lore.
The concept that the "round" count on Battletech is supposed to be the number of shots per ton is actually erroneous, it is supposed to be the number of "Cassettes" or magazines they have. The word "Round" is just easier to store. Source. <-Do note this was written by the editors who made the original ruleset and the first novelist of the first and second editions rules (of the now 5 editions of BT). The sizes of ACs have since been expanded.
MGs actually are supposed to pump out between 400 and 1,000 rounds per second, so '200' shots is clearly not 'shots' but instead a number of measurements of fire. (Which they are 'pinpoint accurate' on infantry to 1,000 meters with a long range of over 2,000 meters... but can only have any chance of doing decent damage to mechanized armor at "less than 100 meters," hence the 90 meter range before 'to hit' penalties (which should be 'for effect' in this one case).
Then, lasers kinda range from 1 to 5 shots per rating, with pulse lasers doing up to 20 shots. This depends on weapon variants, as they have beams akin to Star Trek phasers (the TV series not the latest movies) and 'zap' lasers akin to Halo's Spartan Laser.
Meanwhile, the ability to fire torso weapons in such a way that they converge on a single point is pretty much unfeasible. So while the PPCs and ER PPCs are pretty awesome, you wouldn't 'really' want to fire them at the same time. Especially since 4 ER PPCs chain fired within 10 seconds from a Warhawk Prime will always detonate your ammunition with a 90% of shutting down (reflects how 'fast' or 'slow' the pilot chain fired), and a good chance of losing consciousness from the explosion and heat. (PPCs and missiles; this includes the original minimum range accuracy penalty explanation).
Gauss Rifles when set up in a twin set in the books are unable to fire at the same time, instead they fire a second apart.
It'd be a very different game. >.> Then again we'd have tanks like this one which can take out 6 out of 8 Enforcers as well as the shown Atlas, all but one of those kills after getting my track destroyed (unable to maneuver; akin to having a leg destroyed).
This is just the two AC/10s, nevermind the 4 LRM-5s fired at 4 different targets across 10 seconds.
The only LRM to miss is the one to the Northern most Enforcer, he was too far north. (Yes, it was a 0/5 pilot to reflect the "skill" quotient of MWO with easy point and click shooting.)
So I've built up some cash and exhausted my cadet bonuses and I'm looking to make a purchase. I've had the most fun in the medium class (I'm just an AMS boat in light and I get plastered too quickly in heavy or assault). Most recommendations I've seen are for the Shadowhawk, and I'm looking at the 2H variant because I love ballistics. I panic when I'm getting rocked by successive impacts, and I hope to do the same to my enemies
Gonna fiddle around a bit in the online mechlab before committing. Do you guys have any loadout suggestions?
The 2dH http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a56aeb5fcd97c2a
No BAP streaks will not fire at ECM covered mechs you could again replace with srm2's for up close protection
It's dangerous to go alone. Here, Take This! Two ASRM6's and an AC/10 for brutal close-in smash combined with medium-range plinking power - and AMS, because vaccinate your dang 'mechs! With enough speed to get places fast, and enough firepower to hurt things when it gets there, this is my favorite general-use Shadowhawk build.
I'm a little confused about the choice of an AC/5 and AC/2. If you take those out and remove the jumpjets, you can put in an AC/10. It seems like an upgrade to me, though it might just be my noobishness getting happy over higher numbers.
Also, thanks for all the great suggestions, guys. I like the ideas and I'll probably poke with all of them since I'll need three variants for the mastery.
These quirks mean that any ballistic weapons you put on, including LBX and MG, will reload and fire 7.5% faster, with projectiles to include the PPC and ER PPC traveling 7.5% faster through the air. (Note Velocity doesn't count for MGs as MG fire hits instantly; ignore the particles).
The most useful 2H was the trial/champion build with 2xAC5+PPC. It can jump-snipe at short ranges, and the guns are perfectly deadly at range (easy ridge sniping). Given the slow PPCs these days, it will probably do better faster with a laser instead.
All these assume no skill unlocks; the elite skill unlock "Fast Fire" will increase the rate of fire by an additional 5% (additive, not multiplicative). Normal values:
AC/2: 0.72 second reload. 2,000 meter/second round speed. 2.78 DPS.
AC/5: 1.66 second reload. 1,150 meter/second round speed. 3.01 DPS.
UAC/5: 1.66 second standard rate fire. 0.83 second Ultra rate fire. 1,150 meter/second round speed. 3.01 DPS STD / 6.02 max potential DPS Ultra.
AC/10: 2.5 second reload. 950 meter/second round speed. 4 DPS.
LBX/10: 2.5 second reload. 1,100 meter/second round speed. (Compliments an AC/5 superbly!) 4 DPS.
AC/20: 4 second reload. 650 meter/second round speed. 5 DPS.
The following will happen to these weapons when you put them on the SHK-2H:
Quirked weapon results
AC/2: 0.666 second reload (0.054 faster!). 2150 meter/second round speed (150 M/S faster!). 3.0 DPS. (Increase of 0.223 to get the pre-rounded number).
AC/5: 1.5355 second reload. (0.1245 faster!) 1,236.25 meter/second round speed. (86.25 m/s faster!) 3.26 DPS. (0.2462683165092804 better! Yeah that's the pre-rounded increase).
UAC/5: 1.5355 second standard rate fire. 0.768 second Ultra rate fire. 1,236.25 meter/second round speed. (86.25 m/s faster!) 3.26 DPS STD / 6.51 max potential DPS Ultra.
AC/10: 2.3125 second reload (improvement of 0.1875 seconds). 1021.25 meter/second round speed. (Increase of 71.25 m/s). 4.3 DPS. (0.3 better)
LBX/10: 2.3125 second reload (0.1875 seconds again). 1182.5 meter/second round speed (82.5 m/s improvement). (Doesn't compliment the AC/5 as well anymore.) 4.3 DPS (0.3 better).
AC/20: 3.7 second reload (0.3 second improvement). 747.5 meter/second round speed. (48.75 m/s improvement). 5.405 (or 5&15/37ths) DPS. Improvement of 15/37ths.
Only attributes that would be affected were mentioned here.
You're welcome to use the information provided to see what happens to the PPCs and ER PPCs. However I do not encourage the abuse of poor weapon design on PGI's part.
(Side note: Ballistic Velocity works on PPCs and ER PPCs. Ballistic Cooldown does not. Only Energy Cooldown enhances PPC/ER PPC recharge speeds. Just a curious oddity worth pointing out; I do give merit to PGI for not overlooking that and allowing BC and EC to double-enhance PPCs/ER PPC recharge speeds).
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k05h3lk1n, on 04 April 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:
