14 replies to this topic

[Monky]

Hello! Thanks to the people who participated in the first MWO Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault Quarterly Balance Survey this prior week and weekend!

The formatted easier to read version along with the data collected is up on Outreach HPG here; http://www.reddit.co..._breakdown_the/

and the polls themselves are here; http://www.reddit.co...bility_surveys/

But here is the basic breakdown of the poll posted Friday of last week:


A handy chart that displays the basic flow of how these rankings work http://i.imgur.com/3HSGMNQ.jpg

And now the rankings: (Identical Clan CT's where compressed into one vote for this poll)

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Viable results 'limb'

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Clearly Viable + : FS9-A, FS9-S, SCR-PRIME/A/C/D, TBR-PRIME, TBR-S, TBR-C/D, STK-4N, STK-M, BNC-3E

Clearly Viable HBR-PRIME/A/B, DWF-PRIME/A, DWF-B

Clearly Viable - DWF-S

Viable + TDR-5SS, KGC-0000, RVN-3L

Viable RVN-2X, KGC-000, KGC-000B

Viable > FS9-H, HBK-GI, SHD-2K, JM6-FB, JM6-S, TDR-9S, TDR-9SE, BNC-3M

Viable - -NO ENTRIES-

Viable * HBK-4P

Capable + RVN-H, GRF-3M, STK-3F, STK-5M

Capable FS9-E, CN9-AH, CN9-YLW, ENF-4R, HBK-4J, WVR-6K, GRF-1E, DRG-1N, MDD-PRIME/A/B/C, JM6-DD

Capable - -NO ENTRIES-

Capable * JR7-F, HBK-4G, VTR-DS

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Niche results 'limb'

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Clearly Niche + -NO ENTRIES-

Clearly Niche -NO ENTRIES-

Clearly Niche - -NO ENTRIES-

Niche ^ LCT-PB, AS7-D-DC, AS7-S

Niche + CDA-3M, WVR-7K

Niche SDR-5D, KFX-PRIME/C/D/S, PNT-10K, BJ-A, WVR-6R, CPLT-J

Niche - ENF-5D, ENF-5P, SHD-5M, WHK-PRIME/A

Niche v COM-2D, NVA-S

Niche * TDR-5S

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Inconclusive 'root'

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Inconclusive + JR7-O, BJ-1X, SHD-2D, SHD-2D2, CTF-IM, CTF-3D, GRH-5N, WHK-B,

Inconclusive > PNT-9R, SHD-2H

Inconclusive JR7-D, JR7-K, FS9-K, CN9-A, HBK-4H, HBK-4SP, TBT-7M, GRF-1N, SHD-GD, JM6-A, GRH-5J, GRH-5H, VTR-9S, BLR-1G, BLR-1S, BLR-3S, ZEU-9S, STK-3H, STK-5S, WHK-C, BNC-3S,

Inconclusive - CN9-AL, CPLT-K2, BLR-1D, BLR-3M, ZEU-6S, ZEU-6T

Anything with ? -NO ENTRIES-

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Not viable results 'limb'

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Borderline * LCT-1E, PNT-8Z, CDA-2A, TBT-LG, ON1-P, AS7-BH

Borderline + SDR-5K, CN9-D, NVA-PRIME/A/B

Borderline LCT-1V, MLX-PRIME/A/B/C, COM-TDK, ADR-PRIME, ADR-D, CDA-2B, BJ-3, GRF-1S, DRG-FLAME, CPLT-A1, CPLT-C1, SMN-PRIME, SMN-C, SMN-D, ON1-VA, VTR-9K, HGN-733C

Borderline - ADR-A, ADR-B, RVN-4X, BJ-1, BJ-1DC, VND-1AA, TBT-3C, QKD-4G, CTF-4X, SMN-B, AWS-8Q, HGN-732

Not Viable * QKD-5K

Not Viable > IFR-PRIME, IFR-A, IFR-C, IFR-D, TBT-5J, TBT-5N, AWS-8R, BLR-1GHE, HGN-733P, HGN-HM

Not Viable + -NO ENTRIES-

Not Viable LCT-1M, LCT-3M, LCT-3S, SDR-A, CDA-3C, CDA-X5, TBT-7K, KTO-GB, DRG-1C, DRG-5N, DRG-FANG, QKD-4H, CPLT-C4, ON1-K, ON1-M, ON1-V, AWS-9M, VTR-9B, BNC-LM, AS7-D

Not Viable - VND-1SIB, KTO-18, QKD-IV4, CTF-1X, GAR-D, HGN-733

Clearly Not Viable + SDR-5V, CTF-2X, AWS-8V, GAR-PRIME, GAR-C, AS7-K, AS7-RS

Clearly Not Viable COM-1B, COM-3A, VND-1R, VND-1X, KTO-19, KTO-20, AWS-8T, GAR-A

Clearly Not Viable - COM-1D, AWS-PB

This concludes the 1st Quarter 2015 Balance Survey, thank you!

[El Bandito]

What about Sparky?

[Elizander]

El Bandito, on 05 April 2015 - 01:32 AM, said:

What about Sparky?

Forgotten

[Ursh]

Nice chart. Thank you for putting it together.

I'll just say that rather than nerfing every mech at the top, they need to work on bringing some terrible mechs up to par. AKA not giving them useless quirks, or powerful quirks for useless weapons. They need to adjust mechs at the top and mechs at the bottom until they meet somewhere in the middle.

Some of the mechs at the top would be drop a category simply be toning down their quirks. Good hit boxes+good quirks for good weapons are what is defining the IS meta right now.

No more godmode quirks for some mechs, while others get a +7.5% range to machine guns, or something equally useless.

Edited by Ursh, 05 April 2015 - 01:47 AM.

[Averen]

Thanks, that's a very interesting list, even if it doesn't bring to many surprises.

[Elizander]

I guess the AL is suffering from lack of high hardpoints? It can do 3LL pretty well and have a shield side. The only problem is that if you add just 70% more mech you get 100% more LL (Stalker 4N).

[KraftySOT]

The 3M not being clearly viable ruins this entire list for me.

If thats not clearly viable, your science is bad.

Also the Gargoyle...wtf. Clearly not viable? Are you ********? Its not great, but its still got laser vomit. The only drawback is that its taking up to much tonnage in CW, which isnt important in the other 50% of the game.

[Kuritaclan]

I think the chart is just a bit trolling within. Also it does not make a difference between cw and normal queue. - You also see some clearly not differentiated results. The DWF-S for example is under the other DWF Variants, The Prime and A on the same lvl than the DWF-B what is clearly standing over them because of the torso Energy mount. There are a couple more of this notes that will point that those results are done with a hot needle.

[Averen]

Did you actually read OP? It's a survey.

[Monky]

El Bandito, on 05 April 2015 - 01:32 AM, said:

What about Sparky?

Capable FS9-E, CN9-AH, CN9-YLW, ENF-4R, HBK-4J, WVR-6K, GRF-1E, DRG-1N, MDD-PRIME/A/B/C, JM6-DD

I went with the designations given by the quirks website here; http://snafets.de/mwo/quirks.htm so the hero mechs are on it just perhaps under the first letter of their unique name following the chassis (like RVN-H for Huginn, not sure why Sparky is GRF-1E though, maybe for energy? heh)

KraftySOT, on 05 April 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

The 3M not being clearly viable ruins this entire list for me.

If thats not clearly viable, your science is bad.

Also the Gargoyle...wtf. Clearly not viable? Are you ********? Its not great, but its still got laser vomit. The only drawback is that its taking up to much tonnage in CW, which isnt important in the other 50% of the game.

I like the gargoyle a bit better than the community as well. I think the main problem people have with it is that what it can do, the timber can generally do equally well or better, and what it can't do, other assaults are capable of so when you're throwing together a group deck for group queue, or a CW deck, you don't really have a need for a gargoyle making it not worth consideration. On top of that, the mech is huge and hard to protect your weapons since you're almost locked in to using both arms, so it's got a bit of awesome-syndrome.

Kuritaclan, on 05 April 2015 - 08:27 AM, said:

I think the chart is just a bit trolling within. Also it does not make a difference between cw and normal queue. - You also see some clearly not differentiated results. The DWF-S for example is under the other DWF Variants, The Prime and A on the same lvl than the DWF-B what is clearly standing over them because of the torso Energy mount. There are a couple more of this notes that will point that those results are done with a hot needle.

It's a public opinion survey I let run for a week and put up in a lot of places, but some insight into what you're complaining about; DWF S is a center torso only. It DOES contain a jumpjet, but it also contains a 1 slot missile hardpoint, the best thing you can fit in there is an SRM4, which generally has no place on a DWF. It seems far better to take the side torso, place it on the B, and fit a Large Pulse or ER Large in the CT while still retaining jumpjets. Even still, it's under the other DWF's by a few percentage points. The + and - groups are just the 'top' and 'bottom' end of the same category, so don't get too wound up over it.

Edited by Monky, 05 April 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[Kuritaclan]

Monky, on 05 April 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

It's a public opinion survey I let run for a week and put up in a lot of places, but some insight into what you're complaining about; DWF S is a center torso only. It DOES contain a jumpjet, but it also contains a 1 slot missile hardpoint, the best thing you can fit in there is an SRM4, which generally has no place on a DWF. It seems far better to take the side torso, place it on the B, and fit a Large Pulse or ER Large in the CT while still retaining jumpjets. Even still, it's under the other DWF's by a few percentage points. The + and - groups are just the 'top' and 'bottom' end of the same category, so don't get too wound up over it.

I saw it on reddit. And for sure you are right, that the B Version is a bit better than the S in a "semi - Zombie mode" but both Torso outvalue the A or Prime Variants (since one jumpjet in the center is is just the jump capability), that was the point i referred to, what would bring them slightly above in such a comparison, or at least should do so. When it comes down to clan mechs all is interchangeable, so i do not care about a full set of 8 parts of one variante, since you can use those on any other variant to make the "best chioce" mech, and in this situation you have the choice between non Hardpoint, Hardpoints, Jumpability. I guess this is the way to look @ it.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 05 April 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

nothing says scientific data like a poll. carry on folks.

[Monky]

Elizander, on 05 April 2015 - 08:00 AM, said:

I guess the AL is suffering from lack of high hardpoints? It can do 3LL pretty well and have a shield side. The only problem is that if you add just 70% more mech you get 100% more LL (Stalker 4N).

Hard to say, but I would guess lack of high hardpoints does limit it. Your main LL mechs are pokers now, and while you could side-poke with the AL you can't ridge poke, the RVN-2X/3L, and the STK-4N however can do both so maybe the CN9-AL is simply viewed as a less efficient version. It could be a dark horse however and be rising in popularity, these surveys are a snapshot so you can't get a great sense for 'was this a trash mech 3 months ago and gaining respect now, or is it stangating/declining'.

Kuritaclan, on 05 April 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

I saw it on reddit. And for sure you are right, that the B Version is a bit better than the S in a "semi - Zombie mode" but both Torso outvalue the A or Prime Variants (since one jumpjet in the center is is just the jump capability), that was the point i referred to, what would bring them slightly above in such a comparison, or at least should do so. When it comes down to clan mechs all is interchangeable, so i do not care about a full set of 8 parts of one variante, since you can use those on any other variant to make the "best chioce" mech, and in this situation you have the choice between non Hardpoint, Hardpoints, Jumpability. I guess this is the way to look @ it.

I agree however one thing that you have to take into account is the S isn't very common currently, so it might simply be an inaccurate judgement due to lack of experience. A lot of DWF builds do tend to maximize their crit slot useage though, and with a head slot open you can easily fit a 1 ton targeting computer there, instead of needing to put it in the CT where an A or PRIME could just throw a DHS in the CT. Maybe that's part of it.

Geist Null, on 05 April 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

nothing says scientific data like a poll. carry on folks.

Nothing says scientific data in this thread at all...

In fact, it 100% says opinion data

However, if you have a player base who's decisions are based largely on opinions (as the devs have stated multiple times) it is useful data to have

Edited by Monky, 05 April 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[crustydog]

I love my CTF-1X and my CTF-2X, and I wreck face equally with both... these mechs can kill anything, and have.

The recent hitbox adjustments have hurt their survivability in a noticeable way.

They are not Stormcrows or Timberwolves.

But not viable and clearly not viable? - these mechs are very viable... like frequent 4, 5, and 6 kill group queue match winning viable.

Leg Breaking, Arm Ripping, Torso Crunching, Beheading viable.

Duel Winning sustained firepower viable.

Slower, but very much bigger hunchbacks.

"It kicks like a mule."

You know it!