71 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

HiasRGB, on 05 April 2015 - 01:51 AM, said:

Carry harder.

because you can carry 9 people all time with basic mechs *sigh*
im trying but too much derp on the field.

should play firestarters or stormcrows. might work with them or camp with dire wolfs. seems to be the only way these days.

[Bluttrunken]

You might want to work on your situational awareness. As you and your PUG team don't have a mind link of any sort it's up to you to keep an eye on the minimap and evaluate the situation periodically. If 80% of your team is seemingly content waiting for the enemy at a certain spot is it useful to for you to push alone or with just 1 more member around the flank or into the open field? Not even a Direwolf or a King Crab can do that, which should make you think. There are times when breaking up the formation is useful, either to surround cornered enemies, to chase armor stripped opponents or to divide the attention of the enemy team but these situations need to be evaluated very carefully and if you need support for that you also need to pay attention that someone is moving with you. Lance Chat hooray.

You're not the single most important unit on the field and not everyone wants to play the same way or use the same tactics so it lies with you to integrate into the team. And please don't start barking orders in team chat now. No one's gonna care.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 05 April 2015 - 02:11 AM.

[H I A S]

Alienized, on 05 April 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

because you can carry 9 people all time with basic mechs *sigh*
im trying but too much derp on the field.

should play firestarters or stormcrows. might work with them or camp with dire wolfs. seems to be the only way these days.

if you read the other answers my reply was the best one

[Alienized]

HiasRGB, on 05 April 2015 - 02:26 AM, said:

if you read the other answers my reply was the best one

it was because its too true.
its whats expected from both MM and players.

to all those that say i *play bad*: if i am bad, why do i have the highest damage or score most of time even tho i have to do things with my mechs they should not do because no one else does em? yeah.. obviously all my fault.
if i am really that bad then what does that say about my *team*?

i dont consider it bad to solo kill a HBR with a blackjack while under fire from 3 enemies and lrms. do you?
it was only a solo kill because... well. i explained it. the wall was more comfortable than helping a teammate.

[Trashhead]

This is how i handle this:
- if you see someone shooting a weapon at a to far away target, just tell them
- if you are in an assault and get left behind, simply state this and ask if your team could wait; or at least if someone could help you (and the other Whales) to get to safety.
- if you are NOT in a whale, offer escort-service yourself; if you do, tell that in the chat (that way some players who are oblivious to the whole "whales get left behind"-problems might "wake up").
- if you want your team to charge, tell them you are about to walk over that hill and attack; ask if someone wants to join your push. <- i have tested this, got mixed results. Sometimes works, sometimes don't
- do not insult your teammates (even if you thing they deserve it), as you will not be taken serious from that point on
- stop caring about team wins; you have little to no influence over what your teammates do or how they perform. Consider winning the match a secondary objective over and getting a good personal score your primary objective. (This does not mean you should ignore your team, get away from them or not try to work with your team, but set your initial goal low and try to work up from that point.)


All in all, it is better to ASK players rather then just tell them or even give orders.
Not "Trashhead, PPC min range, lol"
But "Trash, you know the PPC has a 90 m min range where it does no damage?"

I think a lot of the problems we have with "stupid players"root in the fact we have no Tutorial (none that deserves that name.)


Btw.: Have you noted that curiously always the other players make stupid mistakes, never you yourself ? Odd, eh ?

@ PGI, some suggestions regarding the new tutorial:
- teach each lesson in small steps.
- let the players do things that defiantly did NOT work, before you teach them how to do it
Like "go shoot that turret with your medium lasers" while they are out of range (and in a position from where they can not move closer to the target).
That way they will not only see but also experience first hand what weapons range means.
- you can even teach things like torso twisting to spread damage that way: a small canyon where the player cant hide and has only one way to go; goal: kill the Er-Large-laser turret at the end. You have only an AC20. Let them run towards the target and "die" ->simulated environment, they should not be able to die here, but auto-shutdown. Let them walk back to the start, expalin Torso twist, and let them repeat.
- use same setting to teach them about LRM's and how to avoid them.

Make that tutorial MANDATORY for new players.
- give the players a reward at the end of the Tutorial (give them their first own mech; i'd suggest a Centurion as this mech is very flexible and you can mount all 3 types of weapons; NOT a Shadowhawk, as this might spoil the new players: they would expect all other mechs to be as good or better as the Shadowhawk).
- Established player should get rewards as well, maybe some free MC ? This way you might be able to lure in players that play the game for a long time now but still don't know some of the basics.
For instance, i played MWO for more then a year before i became aware of torso twisting and actively used it.
Before that i did torso twist too, sometimes, but more instinctively then in a meaningful way; so old players might still be able to learn new tricks.

[Matthew Ace]

Sorry to hear that, OP. Hope things go better. Does weekday games go better for you? Generally I find weekday games have more... team-minded players.

Like the OP, I have run into a slump lately in my AWS-9M (loaded out as a direct fire support - 3 ER PPC and some secondary weapons). Ever since I managed to even out my K/D from 1:2 from 50 matches to 1:1 at over 200 matches (I know that isn't important, but assaults and heavies should be able to carry their own weight yes?), I get put together with 2-3 players who doesn't break single-digit match scores about half the time. I'm getting 3-4 loss for every win the past 20 or so matches. I also have players consistently come into my line of fire when I am already engaging the enemy force.

On another AWS, specifically an 8Q loaded with Wubs, it happens less, but still does. Just recently, in Mordor, I could have headcapped a shutdown Zeus in a hot zone when a friendly Summoner came into my view.

Note: I'm probably an average player at best, but I had my carry moments as well.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 05 April 2015 - 03:13 AM.

[Sjorpha]

The community IS bad.

There is way too much people complaining about their teammates.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Playerbase is almost always the primary issue in games.

I played WOrld of Tanks for 4606 games, and while i rarely had to much fun in that game and much rage from the RNG, MM and such, I kept playing up until the point which the playerbase just became so obviously clueless that games were ending 1-3 minutes. WHen game after game ends in a 2-15 stomp, much like in MWO.

I kept playing when I thought a vast majority of the players were atleast average players with average ability and skill. Then along came XVM and it really woke me up to reality....7/10 players were absolute window licking terribads who couldnt beat themselves out of a single sheet of wet, 1 ply toilet paper. THen came the fact that I had to actually play with these people.

See, my idea of playing a game is to, you know, play the game. I like to get into a game for more then 3 minutes, move, shoot, experience the game, fire, kill, get shot at, win, lose, and have a good game. But WOT devolved into a series of 3-5 minute banzai charges where I would steamroll one flank while my side got steamrolled on the other. Or, they just out right failed entirely.

I could write a book about just my M103 and the amount of times I would get 3-4K dmg, 2-5 kills, defend base and all that and still lose cuz I was unable to stop the other 5 tanks that steamrolled the other 14 on my side.....and that tank is just 176 of my over 4.6K games. And just for the record, my M103 is by far and away my best performing tank at a 55% win rate, over a 2KDR and something like 2300 average damage, which is a decent amount in that game, ideallly you want to atleast get your tanks health in damage as an avg, so higher is better. M103 has 1850hp. 350-400 avg dmg a shot soo...there ya go.

MWO, its much the same thing. I have been playing on my dad's PC since mine died, my PC gets 15-20FPS, my dads gets 35-40FPS. Since playing this game on his PC, I have gone from getting 1 kill every 10 games and maybe 300-500 dmg to now in 3 straight matches in my WHK, getting 11kills, and like 14 in my zeus inside of 6 games. Ive been top or near top in a number of them. BUt in the end, the game is ready set, 1-12.....

SO yeah, its the playerbase that destroys games, its always the playerbase. Sure, some stuff PGI does is derpy, but its ultimately the playerbase. When MWO has some good PVE content, I will probably love this game to pieces..but MP with other players? Its horrific...

[Sarlic]

There are always two factors. The playersbase and the developer.

These two can't pass through the same door at the same time.

That's pretty much sums it up.

Does not matter what the subject is about. Balance, mapmaking or anything else. There's always that specific door who's going in first..

Edited by Sarlic, 05 April 2015 - 03:22 AM.

[Kjudoon]

If all the gamers are the problem, then the game is fundamentally flawed. If we're all playing the game wrong, or the vast majority even, then the game is designed wrong. We have not been taught how to play the game properly. That is on the designers, not the players.

I will say this, right now this game seems to be developed to only be fun to those who play and practice this game a minimum of 30 hours a week in an organized team running the latest meta. Everyone else is nothing more than practice dummies to them till they go play in a competition. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't go play a neighborhood 7 on 7 game of football if I had 3 arena leaguers, 2 Big 10 school players, an NFL Safety and then a few of their kids in Junior High to fill in the gaps and make their opponents think they have a slim chance.

We know what's going to happen to that just random group of average joes when we are honest with ourselves. They get slaughtered badly because they can do their meta plays that their talent and devotion to the game allows them to get easy points and wins. None of us are Vincent Papale able to jump from the street to the pros. It took me 2 months of really trying to get good at this game, be a competitive player before I realized it would never be for a few simple facts.

1. Victory/Success is not based much on you. In fact, most of the outcome is totally beyond your control unless you control all 12 players on your side by a similar level of devotion to the team.
2. The amount of time to practice and get good is so ridiculously high, it's like having a second job and demands priority over all other interests.
3. There is no "There" there. This is the same basic activity without reason, story elements or real imagination to keep someone coming back once they realize that this is the same game from 2 years ago, with little proof of change being developed or desired. (No, CW is nothing different, only bigger maps with respawn.) There is no reward worth all this stress brought on by trying to be good at a game that is foundationally flawed.

I can't attribute deliberate design to this but rather ignorance of inintended consequence by failing to take gamer nature into the equation. Match the hardcore gamers versus the no-core gamers and then expect the community to not try to tear itself apart? The hardcore are screaming "Just take it sucker and man up!" while offering advice like Charles Atlas to the 98lbs weakling and expecting results overnight when they aren't going to devote their life to it. L2P isn't going to fix this. They learned to play. They ARE learning to play. It's hard to learn when you're being exploited by people who think this is how it is supposed to be. All this does is drive people out, money spent or not, destroy the reputation of the brand and hurt the next release if there ever is another.

There is no 'fun/casual' place in this game, so anyone coming here better know what this game is going to demand from you, and then the pile of crap you're going to get handed with 6-10 other guys who aren't going to try to 'go pro' and were here to enjoy an afternoon every once in a while of dropping with friends to relax and go stompy stompy mechs.

It ain't happening. Not till Cooperative PvE with plots and stories are introduced. Unless that suddenly gets put to the top of the menu by PGI, this game is in serious trouble. PvE cannot be just a training ground. It must be a full on co-equal or superior part of the game that people from time to time can drift over into the PvP or take a break by going into PvE to relax and deal out the issue by segregating those who want to play competitively and those who want to play for entertainment. The two should rarely, if ever mix because both ruin the other's good time.

The question is, will PGI do it in time?

[sneeking]

You could just die a million times without making a forum post about it...

[Parnage Winters]

Oh look a sensationalist title decrying something as assured and the word with a post that's essentially you bitching about some bad games you had.

You saw someone do something stupid?! You don't say?! I'm shocked. Clearly this means this community is the worst possible. Someone call bnet, the chans and reddit we've found the end all be all pondscum of a community and it's this place.

This thread is pointless except to remind folks that no matter who you are, at least you're not childish enough to post passive aggressively about a few bad games and then declare the entire community ****.

PS poking in front of assaults is a bad idea. Don't do it. I mean you can, but you've seen what happens.

[meteorol]

Those threads always remind me of something that happened in my youth.
I was playing football (or soccer for the americans) when i was... i must have been around 12 years old. I played on a team back then, we were a average team in the league we played in.

On that one day we had to play against the leagues top team which had a "way" more professional approach than all other teams in the league. They were practicing like 5 times a week and they were the team you had to play on if your parents thought you had a career infront of you (which non of the guys there had, but you know, parents). We lost that game 18:0.

Anyway, we had that one guy on our team, and he constantly screwed up during that match. Can't remember exactly, but he was directly responsible for 5 or 6 goals we got handed because he didn't pay attention.
All of a sudden he started screaming (literally) "I can't take this anymore! This one day i'm playing that good, and now everyone else plays SO bad!", ran of the court, threw himself to the ground and started crying.

Dunno why, but this scene burned into my brain. I can remember it like it was yesterday. Whenever i see a thread like this, it pops back into my mind and makes me giggle.
And it showed me something that is true for the most matches i play in mwo: the guys who ***** about their team the loudest, are often amongst the worst players on their team.

Edited by meteorol, 05 April 2015 - 03:59 AM.

[sneeking]

What is this poking in the fronts of assaults you speak of ?

I would like to become a student in such an art

[Alienized]

sneeking, on 05 April 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

What is this poking in the fronts of assaults you speak of ?

I would like to become a student in such an art

i could show you but it doesnt work if you are alone. or if you are left alone by your own assaults cowering behind you.
it only works if you get some sort of break from the enemy attacks.

teamplay, you know? one does a distraction and take the inital shot from the enemy assault then the rest of the team swarms it enabling you to do shoot his side.

basic teamplay. nothing else. everyone has its share of damage done and taken to kill a heavy threat....
theres no art behind it.

[sneeking]

I was been facetious, sorry

Pesky light been shot in the back by friends is my bread n butter...

[Alienized]

sneeking, on 05 April 2015 - 04:32 AM, said:

I was been facetious, sorry

Pesky light been shot in the back by friends is my bread n butter...

i know you been.
but some others still need such simple explanations.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Kjudoon, on 05 April 2015 - 03:35 AM, said:

*Lots of stuff I agree with*

Yeah, pretty much. MWO has got to be the only game ever where I have not been able to figure it out, and be at a lvl where I felt I was actually making a difference in the game and actually being somewhat competitve. I never play to carry, I never play to be MLG, but I play to be slightly above average to the point where I can make an impact in the game, be skilled enough to not be scrub.

BF2142, I was a 1.89KDR, maybe not 1337, but had a positive WL, and a positive KDR, I made many nice plays and did well.
BFBC2, while i did slightly worse here, I still had 1.75KDR
Planetside 2, I had up to a 5.7KDR, could usually kick alot of ass.
Even the many times I ran older Mechwarrior 4 and Mechcommander, could win those games easy...vs AI anyway.

Yeah, MWO is a weird game for sure. Be Pro or go home, like its the NFL of gaming or something. But all that aside, 1-12 wipes in pug Q cannot be blamed on the game. When I get a match score of 106 and the next closest is 60....that is not a game issue. 1-12 wipes are generally more a player issue then a game issue.

It really is annoying how winning this game is more based on which side got the lesser number of scrubs, vs the skill and ability of any single player. Unlike say, Battlefield 2142, where a skilled pair of players can just wipe the floor with a lesser skilled side, even with a lesser skilled side themselves. In Planetside 2, I alone would hold off 4-6 players at a time for up to 30 minutes or so until I finally let the base just go and gave it to them, or they bunched up and zerged me and I felt it wasnt worth it to continue.....

But MWO? Individual mechs can play their part in the killing of a mech, but even the most uber player cannot carry the weight of all 12 enemy mechs on his shoulders without some degree of participation from the rest on his side. That is what, imo, makes MWO kinda boring. You cant really make epic plays that make the game truly fun game after game. For every game where you go, "wow that was amazing", you get 10 games of "Dear god what in the holy hell just happened". Better play only gets you so far here....game really is a 12v12 premade paradise....

And yeah, PVE is the primary thing im awaiting in this game....

[sneeking]

Alienized, on 05 April 2015 - 04:39 AM, said:

i know you been.
but some others still need such simple explanations.

Riding the in coming and out going tides and sticking in that turbulent zone while staying alive is about the simplest explanation that can be given.

[sneeking]

Its one of those things can't nobody can teach.

live long enough you might get it.