20 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

I'd like to see PGI introduce much greater variety of drop deck tonnages in Community Warfare.

I want to see how IS fares vs Clans when they're competing with 150t decks, or 180t decks ... all the way up to 400t. It will add variety and - dare I say it - interest value.

The variety of drop tonnage could be achieved in several ways:
a. add a random +/- 10 to 50 tons to each match.
b. designate a different drop weight to each contested planet, or sector on a planet.

We can even put some fluff around this to pretend like we're actually playing *gasp* Battletech...

• "The atmospheric pressure and gravity on planet X require our drop ships to lower their cargo tonnage to stay within structural tolerances."
  
• "Your Khan won the right to win this battle by bidding a drop deck of 200t."
  
• "Your IS House's supply lines are stretched, and the quartermaster cannot assign every Mechwarrior an Assault Mech for this battle."

What do you think?

Edited by Appogee, 05 April 2015 - 04:57 AM.

[Clint Steel]

Seems like a good idea to me, would add some interesting variety, though I'll wager the uber competitives will have something to say against it, as it would mean having a lot of decked out mechs (and modules) in order to be able to easily switch to them to get close to the tonnage limit.

[Onmyoudo]

Too difficult for PGI to balance on, guessing from the recent announcement that all IS drop decks will be 250 tons. Also the issue that you'd be locking a lot of people out of playing; for example I own Jenners and thanks to the Resistance Pack, Panthers. If I had to run a super light drop deck I would be in serious trouble and also completely uncompetitive in the current game.

Plus then you have to wait for 12 people to rearrange every time a planet switches, counting on everyone to have practically every mech in the game (and engines to run them all) and general mechlab and admin work. Given the current balance, UI and economy, what you suggest is an impossibility.

That said, in an ideal world it would bring nice variety.

[Livewyr]

Could be pretty interesting...

Although perhaps more of an advancement feel, perhaps with a bit more control.

Base drop weight: 150 tons per deck.
Units would have to pay more (Out of Unit coffers) to increase the tonnage... exponential cost towards 400tons.

Now, leaving that as it is, it would make it easier for much bigger units (250 people raise money a lot faster than say.. 40 people)

So here is where the kicker would be: You could buy "time" for having the dropdeck heavier, but for each person in your unit- it would be a flat rate. (200k Cbills per hour, per member, to add 100 tons, just as an arbitrary number- I cannot stress ARBITRARY enough)

40 man unit for 2 hours would pay 16 million
250 man unit for 2 hours would pay 100 million

Just a thrown in thought...

[Sniper09121986]

Appogee, on 05 April 2015 - 04:42 AM, said:

• "The atmospheric pressure and gravity on planet X

At long last - this. It is about time the environment parameters started to actually mean something more than numbers on a planetary info page that nobody has any reason to read. Different conditions on otherwise same maps - that would diversify the game nicely and give all these planets character. As for the drop decks, I have a much more radical solution. Drumroll...

Ban the usage of multiple mechs of same model in a single deck.

Say, I have clan packs. Given the current "balance" situation, what reason do I have NOT to take these 2*SCR+2*HBR? Maybe I even give them the same loadout. Same old no-skill Streak-Crows all the way, quiaff? Not to mention the TDR and STK at the other side. How is that challenging or strategic? Why not limit the drop to a single TDR of any model and force players to take something different, Jagermech, for instance? I have yet to understand why people strive for that top weight limit like they would not win without these 5 tons or some-such. As if Gargoyle is better than Timber Wolf. Also it would give PGI a lot more data for balance analysis.

[B0oN]

Good thinking, even the old romans knew it :
variatio delectat

[ROSS-128]

They'd have to introduce a way to hot-swap decks if they wanted every planet to have a different drop weight though. Especially if there are going to be high-G planets that cut the drop weight down (since technically, if I only have one deck and the drop weight available goes up, I can just drop under-tonned, but if it goes down I'm boned).

It would be interesting to have more detailed environmental interaction though. I wonder what kind of effect it would have on gameplay if, say, we were able to translate our heat values to an actual temperature (in Celsius, I would assume), and then have our heat sinks operate by adjusting the time constant in Newton's Law of Cooling, instead of the simple system we have now where every map is 1x, 1.25x, or 0.75x?

So there would be subtle differences between a 4C map and a -32C map, while right now they're both classified as just "Cold, 1.25x heat cap/dissipation". The most obvious consequence though is as you heat up, the difference between you and the environment increases, and so you cool down exponentially faster, and as you approach ambient your cooling slows to a snail's pace... though the function is being forced by your engine, so there will be an equilibrium slightly above ambient.

We would be assuming of course that the 'mech can handle temperatures in the range of several hundred to a couple thousand degrees C, so even Terra Therma's huge temperature would allow us to still operate as long as you don't stand in the lava.

Having our heat system modeled by a differential equation might be confusing for some people, but then most people don't have to actually know the equation or be able to solve it in order to take advantage of its effects.

[Chadamir Fitzkrieg]

I think yes

[AztecD]

BT3025 has a similar weight restriction

- Normal Planet - Lights
- Regional Planet - Lights, Mediums
- Regional Capital - Lights, Mediums, Heavies
- Capital Planets - Lights, Mediums, Heavies, Assaults

Or something like that, its been a while, but i like this idea

[Kuritaclan]

Livewyr, on 05 April 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

Could be pretty interesting...

Although perhaps more of an advancement feel, perhaps with a bit more control.

Base drop weight: 150 tons per deck.
Units would have to pay more (Out of Unit coffers) to increase the tonnage... exponential cost towards 400tons.

Now, leaving that as it is, it would make it easier for much bigger units (250 people raise money a lot faster than say.. 40 people)

So here is where the kicker would be: You could buy "time" for having the dropdeck heavier, but for each person in your unit- it would be a flat rate. (200k Cbills per hour, per member, to add 100 tons, just as an arbitrary number- I cannot stress ARBITRARY enough)

40 man unit for 2 hours would pay 16 million
250 man unit for 2 hours would pay 100 million

Just a thrown in thought...

just nopp since it would bring to much disbalance into not 12man play with full pug and or small group+pug drops vs the full 12man drop weight pimped unit queuers.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 06 April 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Ace Selin]

Onmyoudo, on 05 April 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

Too difficult for PGI to balance on, guessing from the recent announcement that all IS drop decks will be 250 tons. Also the issue that you'd be locking a lot of people out of playing; for example I own Jenners and thanks to the Resistance Pack, Panthers. If I had to run a super light drop deck I would be in serious trouble and also completely uncompetitive in the current game. Plus then you have to wait for 12 people to rearrange every time a planet switches, counting on everyone to have practically every mech in the game (and engines to run them all) and general mechlab and admin work. Given the current balance, UI and economy, what you suggest is an impossibility. That said, in an ideal world it would bring nice variety.

This.

You think its hard to find a game now, wait untill different people are palying different tonnages.. then see how long the wait times are .

[mxlm]

There are only two ways 150 tons of Clan mechs beats 250 tons of IS mechs. Either a premade runs a light rush (probably after the Cheetah is released) or a premade goes up against a poor team of PUGs. 180 tons is still too much to overcome against a competent team; three Novas and a Kit Fox lose to every viable IS drop deck, presuming the two teams are remotely close in skill.

If the Clans can't even (or can only) field 4 Novas while the IS can have a Stalker, two heavies to taste, and one of many excellent lights (or four heavies, or two assaults and two excellent lights, or...), the Clans lose every time they're not significantly better than the IS team. That only changes if you revert Clan mechs and tech back to their initial-release absurdly OP status, or even buff them further. Which then breaks group and solo queues and is therefore never going to happen. Well, or mechs/tech perform differently in CW than they do in solo/group, which again, never going to happen.

[Skarlock]

I think this would give people with a large selection of mechs and a slew of modules a gigantic advantage over those who do not. I personally could make a drop deck of any tonnage from 140 to 400, clan or IS, at the drop of a hat and have it perform very well. I don't think a lot of other players would actually be able to do that, and having to go back and buy/sell mechs, purchase a HUGE number of modules, and make sure they are all mastered would be more than the average player could bear if they are fairly new to the game. Having to defend against 12, 100 ton assault mechs with an under tonned drop deck vs. veterans would be absolutely no fun for the defenders when the weight limit is very high. Having to have far less than optimal tonnage (say, only being able to take 0 tons in a 350 ton game) would be a nightmare for most players.

This would also make it impossible for most people to play with trial mechs effectively if the weight range falls into an extreme. For those who are *not* using any trial mechs in their drop deck, this could be, well, a big relief, but it does cut newer players out of CW completely, which means the wait only gets longer. At best this is an even trade as it angers some but pleases others, at worst, it drives newer players away from the game.

[DasSibby]

I'd be game. Sounds like a fun new game mode to me!

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Any tonnage changes need to be on a per-planet basis, and need to be displayed up-front when you look at the planet info.

Other than that, variable drop deck tonnage would be amazing.

I'd also love to see a MechCommander-style bonus for low drop weight, say 10k c-bills per 5 tons under weight.

[Anjian]

I favor a system like this.

Increased loyalty points and cash rewards for every 5 tons below weight, no less than 160 tons.

An overweight is allowed up to 250 tons, but will incur a loyalty point and cash reward reduction.

What about further overweights but will incur loyalty point and cash PENALTIES if you lose. You can even get demoted, lost rank and lose money if you lose too much with your overweight mechs.

Some planets will allow for higher weight ceilings without incuring penalties. The closer is the planet to the capital, the higher the weight ceiling for that planet in that particular faction. Planets that have greater strategic value or importance to lore, will have higher weight allowances.

The less strategically important a planet is, the lower the weight allowances for that planet.

PGI should also allow for higher or lower weight allowances as part of events, or data gathering.

Edited by Anjian, 07 April 2015 - 05:19 AM.

[S13gtastic]

I'm all for seeing different drop decks on different planets. Closer you get to home-worlds the higher the tonage should be. I'd also like to see different weights for IS and Clan...............but I'd also like to see Clan groups be able to bid lower number of attackers/defenders but only if they are all in the same unit with the same tags for higher rewards XD


Edit:

Or make it so the only time they can bid alesser number of units is if they are the unit the captured the planet.

Edited by S13gtastic, 08 April 2015 - 12:09 PM.

[Adamski]

I already need to fully equip 10 mechs for the different maps / modes currently in CW with only 1 drop weight to worry about, no thanks to further C-Bill grinding just to fully enjoy CW.

[Tarl Cabot]

AztecD, on 06 April 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

BT3025 has a similar weight restriction

- Normal Planet - Lights
- Regional Planet - Lights, Mediums
- Regional Capital - Lights, Mediums, Heavies
- Capital Planets - Lights, Mediums, Heavies, Assaults

Or something like that, its been a while, but i like this idea

Add more pips, have more than one selectable deck. Attacker percentage determines deck limit. Think of it as just landing and sending out scouting parties,etc but once a solid beachhead is set, heavier forces can be brought in.

[Kin3ticX]

not sure i like this because it further complicates it and people barely have the mechs to throw together as it is