171 replies to this topic

[MrZakalwe]

Johnny Z, on 05 April 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

On the contrary. Its hilarious, that desciption accurately describes the Omni mech pilots on these forums, for the most part. It couldnt be more funny. I get constant laughs with the lengths to which easy mode Clan players will go to preserve their Cheese mode advantage.

Go ahead prove me right for the millionth time.

I pilot both clan and inner sphere mechs- Stalker 4N is easy mode.

Either you are trolling or an utter scrub if you don't understand how superior the 4N is to the Warhawk.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 05 April 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Here's a fun academic exercise...


How would this comparison look if we gave the Stalker access to Clan equipment?

This was a silly image I made, Stalker with Clan XL and Clan DHS using IS LLAS.






Since it caps out at a 310 engine, I'm not sure if moving to CLPLs would even help it because you'd run out of crit slots before tonnage.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 05 April 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 05 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

This was a silly image I made, Stalker with Clan XL and Clan DHS using IS LLAS.

If you're gonna use Clan stuff, might as well use the Large Wubs as well...



EDIT: Didn't see your own edit at first.

Edited by FupDup, 05 April 2015 - 01:51 PM.

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 05 April 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

If you're gonna use Clan stuff, might as well use the Large Wubs as well...

Since it caps out at a 310 engine, I'm not sure if moving to CLPLs would even help it because you'd run out of crit slots before tonnage.

I suppose you could do 5 of them for 30 tons though.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ultimatum X, on 05 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

This was a silly image I made, Stalker with Clan XL and Clan DHS using IS LLAS.






Since it caps out at a 310 engine, I'm not sure if moving to CLPLs would even help it because you'd run out of crit slots before tonnage.

Maybe I'm missing the fact that this is meant as part of the silliness but that would be 3.5 tons overweight .

[Ultimax]

WM Quicksilver, on 05 April 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

Maybe I'm missing the fact that this is meant as part of the silliness but that would be 3.5 tons overweight .

Now you are going to make me be serious about sillyness!!??

You're right though, looking again it would only be able to get 25 DHS not 28.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 05 April 2015 - 02:01 PM.

[MrZakalwe]

Ultimatum X, on 05 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

This was a silly image I made, Stalker with Clan XL and Clan DHS using IS LLAS.






Since it caps out at a 310 engine, I'm not sure if moving to CLPLs would even help it because you'd run out of crit slots before tonnage.

I have now seen the end times.

[jlawsl]

So, let me get this right. The stalker is a better mech for the mere fact that it can camp a hill better? I don't like clan mechs too much because they really do feel like someone turned off my thinking ability, and threw a premade obvious build mech at me. Clan mechs require little thinking in the way of their builds. But that isn't saying there aren't fun ones. I will say this, apart from a head on fight, or in a ridge shootout(the very few first minutes of the game), every stalker but the Misery is kinda bleh when it comes down to it.

Yeah it has high mounts, but big whoop when its torso twist is so terrible. Its not maneuverable, so it will always get turned into. Lrm stalkers and camping stalkers are pretty dangerous, Once you are in close to a stalker with almost any mech, it will almost never get a good group of shots on you before it dies. I have done well in some of my stalkers, but I have also seen, been in, and made them flounder because of their forward biased armament and alignment. With lasers, at close range, the OPs build on the warhawk would smash a stalker's face, the warhawk is nimble and has an awsome torso twist. At range, its all dependent of whether the stalker can ridge hump half the firefight, but do that, and you are prone to get a firestarter in the rear, something a warhawk can turn into and fight, something a stalker just dies without ever seeing the firestarter.

Edited by jlawsl, 05 April 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

MrZakalwe, on 05 April 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

I pilot both clan and inner sphere mechs- Stalker 4N is easy mode.

Either you are trolling or an utter scrub if you don't understand how superior the 4N is to the Warhawk.

If anecdotal evidence counts, I actually have a clan alt which I ran the 4xCLPL build on. It felt like easy mode - crazy range, crazy speed and easy to heat manage. So to counter with your "kind" words: if you cant run the Warhawk, you are a scrub.

[Beld]

I don't understand why everyone is fixated on the warhawk being a laser boat/direct weapon platform, within a few days of owning warks i stopped trying to use them like that and turned them into Artemis LRM boats, my 4 ER ML 3 LRM15 + Artemis and TAG more often then not deals the most damage in a match and sometimes kills half the enemy team in the process.

I have little doubt it would mince any stalker it came across.

[Antzs]

WarHawk = stalker 4N. Timber wolf> Warhawk. Timber wolf > Stalker. Why are you guys complaining and wanting to nerf the Stalker? Lets try to nerf something else unless clanners think that Warhawk is OP and needs nerfing.

[Fate 6]

Stalker is a much better mech because of hitboxes and weapon mounts, but in terms of pure damage numbers it's almost dead even with the Warhawk. Since we know the Warhawk is actually pretty mediocre as clan mechs go (better to go down 10 tons to a Timberwolf) it would seem the problem here is the Warhawk being weak rather than the Stalker being too good.

Warhawk seriously needs armor buffs and heat dissipation buffs. Noticeable ERPPC quirks would be good too, but after seeing the first clan quirk pass I don't really have hope for our bird.

[Lightfoot]

The Stalker has this tiny CT from the front that makes it very tough. That's why it works at all, being so awkward.

[Ultimax]

Fate 6, on 05 April 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

Warhawk seriously needs armor buffs and heat dissipation buffs.

If the Warhawk's issue is geometry, I would rather see significant quirks to address that rather than split them all over for things it does not need.


I know the Warhawk has build limitations, I know it has geometry issues - but I also know it has zero issues running relatively cool.



I've already provided testing, showing that the 4x CLPL build actually runs cooler than the 4N does, and that's with the 4N's quirks.


Heat isn't the problem.



So things like

+Armor
+Internal Structure
-Laser duration (10% to 15%)
+CERPPC Velocity


Those are the quirks I want to see, those are the quirks that will benefit it the most.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 05 April 2015 - 04:12 PM.

[Fate 6]

Ultimatum X, on 05 April 2015 - 04:10 PM, said:

I know the Warhawk has build limitations, I know it has geometry issues - but I also know it has zero issues running relatively cool.

You haven't run the stock Prime loadout then. Even if you ditch the LRMs for more heat sinks it can't run that build with anything resembling heat efficiency. You are almost overheated after firing each pair of ERPPCs. Even on Alpine it's not a good build and that's the one map it should be a good build on.

The 4LPL build runs cool. Basically any SRM build doesn't, nor does an ERPPC build. Gauss builds obviously run cool. Ironically the 2UAC20 build runs ok because all the locked in heat sinks help deal with the ghost heat.

Edited by Fate 6, 05 April 2015 - 04:16 PM.

[Ultimax]

Fate 6, on 05 April 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

You haven't run the stock Prime loadout then.

Let me be frank, if you are running the stock prime loadout that is your choice.

It is a bad design for this game, period.



Are you going to face mechs running stock loadouts? No.


Drop the LRMs, drop 2x CERPPCs, grab a Gauss rifle, go to town.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Fate 6, on 05 April 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

You haven't run the stock Prime loadout then. Even if you ditch the LRMs for more heat sinks it can't run that build with anything resembling heat efficiency. You are almost overheated after firing each pair of ERPPCs. Even on Alpine it's not a good build and that's the one map it should be a good build on.

The Warhawk Prime wasn't a great build in TT either, just pointing that out, same with the Adder Prime, they were way too hot to be as effective as they could've been unless we are talking strictly about Zellbriggen. If you fired all 4 ERPPCs in TT at just a stand still, you were generating 20 points over what you could dissipate, that is 50% more heat than the mech could dissipate.

Expecting you to be able to run 4 ERPPCs with decent heat efficiency is ridiculous for the Warhawk.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Jonathan Paine, on 05 April 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

If anecdotal evidence counts, I actually have a clan alt which I ran the 4xCLPL build on. It felt like easy mode - crazy range, crazy speed and easy to heat manage. So to counter with your "kind" words: if you cant run the Warhawk, you are a scrub.

Well, I never ran a Stalker beyond the one they had in Trial, and comparing a stock WHK to a stock Stalker, I can tell you in terms of pure handling? The Warhawk wins absolutely hands down. The Warhawk feels very comfortable and moves nicely. No IS mech I have driven, besides the ZEU, has handled that well.

So, in terms of driving it, handling, the Warhawk probably has the edge. Hit boxes, ability to hill hump, the Stalker.

4x CLPL does feel pretty good to. Can dual fire for 26/26, or endlessly chain fire for rapid and constant 13s.

[QuantumButler]

The biggest issue with the Warhawk are those stupid locked DHSes in the one side torso that are always there, meaning 100% of the time you know to shoot the other side to blow off most of the WH's guns.

[Deathlike]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 05 April 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

I did not. I don't own a C yet, just my invasion Prime. My build is also not 4 CLPLs though. I rolled 2 CLPLs, 2 ERMLs, and a Gauss against his 5 ISLL 4N because I find that to be my strongest Warhawk build against his strongest 4N build. I think the discrepancies boiled down to Jman being better at the game as the tests showed all my clan builds I threw at him to be neck and neck with him and his 4N the entire time.

The Hunchback whisperer is far better than I tend to give credit for.

His battlefield awareness far far exceeds my own... which is probably why I fail to kill him unless his team falls apart.

The Hunchback is a great chassis to hide one's deviousness.


Also, that Warhawk build I've found to be excellent over the 4 LPL build. I don't know why, but the build is pretty heat efficient and a bit more sustainable than the 4 LPL build. I'm not usually that big on the Warhawk, but by 85 tonner standards, it's close enough to some Misery builds.