150 replies to this topic

[Jack Corban]

Hi,

I think it is time to talk about Stockmode again.

With the latest quirks rolling out today and after I looked at them i cannot but feel bad.

Nova Prime Largelaser Quirks ? Really on a Medium Laser Boat ? Who the heck thought that would be a good idea.

Edit: Ok apparently i misread that disregard. Never the less Quirks stink to high heaven for most mechs. If they at least pushed quirks on every mech that strengthen its Stock Build but not even that is happening consistently.

Anyhow.

I think we should really take a look at Stock Matches again.

Basically what needs doing is

- make mechs run in stock Configuration
- let them use modules if you must (i don't care either way)
- remove Ghostheat
- Make Double Heatsinks do 2.0 instead of 1.4 Heat reduction
- Remove all quirks from every Mech in stock mode
- seperate Mechs into Tech 1 and Tech 2
- Reduce Armor and Internals back to Tabletop values

Oh look suddenly you have balanced gameplay with every mech viable except maybe the Urban Mech. I'd still rock him though. Why ?

Because:

- Ammo limitations (the real hard hitters are limited use like usually 1 or 2 tons of ammo)
- Mech Builds with an allaround assortment of weapons instead of dedicated MAX Alpha Boats
- The need to pilot your mech with all it's strenghts and all it's flaws. Instead of min-maxing
- This Gamemode would be way better for competitive gameplay because everyone would be on even ground

And to all the people that will inevitably come in here and say that this is untrue and BS

I Challenge you this i take any of my 140 ish Stock Mechs against anything you have concocted up in your "Smurfies" and i will make you sweat in your seats.

I play all my mechs stock for what must have been over a year now. In CW and in Regular queues and i get my 2- 3 Kills nearly every game.

So don't come in here and tell me Stock Mechs can't achieve anything. Because you are outright wrong.

Edit: P.s. Aren't you all as done as i am with these patchwork badaid fixes for fixes for fixes. I mean C'mon give us somthing that is at least a solid ground from which you can attempt balancing.

- Discuss

Edited by Jack Corban, 07 April 2015 - 07:23 AM.

[FupDup]

I know it's hard for some people to admit, but stock mechs aren't created equally. Some stock mechs are directly better than others, by either deliberate design or by accident.

I can get into the specific variants and mechs where there are power gaps if you want me to, but basically the point is that you shouldn't say "Oh, stock mode makes every mech good guys" because that's simply false. There will still be superior mechs and inferior mechs as usual.

You can have a stock mode if you really really want it, but don't expect it to be the egalitarian utopia that everyone says it is. There will still be a "meta" and "meta builds."

[Jack Corban]

FupDup, on 07 April 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

I know it's hard for some people to admit, but stock mechs aren't created equally. Some stock mechs are directly better than others, by either deliberate design or by accident.

I can get into the specific variants and mechs where there are power gaps if you want me to, but basically the point is that you shouldn't say "Oh, stock mode makes every mech good guys" because that's simply false. There will still be superior mechs and inferior mechs as usual.

You can have a stock mode if you really really want it, but don't expect it to be the egalitarian utopia that everyone says it is. There will still be a "meta" and "meta builds."

Oh I'm assuming you talk about Tech 2 Mechs there. If thats the case i covered that in my initail post. Basically DHS,Endosteel,Ferro Fibrious, Artemis, ER weapons, AMS, XL Engines, Ultra AC's, ECM,Beagle Probe, Tag / Narc and CASE. Thats all Techs 2. Thus making for instance every Clan Mech Tech 2.

[FupDup]

Jack Corban, on 07 April 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:

Oh I'm assuming you talk about Tech 2 Mechs there. If thats the case i covered that in my initail post. Basically DHS,Endosteel,Ferro Fibrious, Artemis, ER weapons, AMS, XL Engines, Ultra AC's, ECM,Beagle Probe, Tag / Narc and CASE. Thats all Techs 2. Thus making for instance every Clan Mech Tech 2.

Tech 1 mechs aren't equal to each other.

Tech 2 mechs aren't equal to each other either.

[Jack Corban]

FupDup, on 07 April 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

Tech 1 mechs aren't equal to each other.

Tech 2 mechs aren't equal to each other either.

They don't need to be equal. I never said they would. I just said they would be viable. And THAT they would. Every last one of them except maybe the Urban beeing the Urban. They would be able to more than hold their ground in combat. i know this because i own nearly every mech Variant that this game knows and i play them stock in the regular Queue. Don't tell me i am that good that what i say is a jaded view of things. I'm not that good a pilot.

[RG Notch]

Jack Corban, on 07 April 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

They don't need to be equal. I never said they would. I just said they would be viable. And THAT they would. Every last one of them except maybe the Urban beeing the Urban. They would be able to more than hold their ground in combat. i know this because i own nearly every mech Variant that this game knows and i play them stock in the regular Queue. Don't tell me i am that good that what i say is a jaded view of things. I'm not that good a pilot.

Umm that's where Elo comes into effect.

[Rhaythe]

There's a difference between a "Stock Mode" and a "3025 Stock Mode". What OP wants (and he's not alone) is the 3025 version.

I've said this (a lot) before, but I'll go into it again. 3025 stock queues would have the following benefits:

• Provide a game mode that truly is a BattleTech Game™.
  
• Offer a learning ground for new players to discover game mechanics before being thrust into Meta Warfare
  
• Offer better C-Bill earnings, as mech customization is not A Thing™.
  
• Prevent boating
  
• Increase Time to Kill drastically
  
• Provide a place for lesser-used mechs to shine (seriously; the Locust can be a dangerous foe in stocks)
  
• Offer an avenue to incorporate a storyline into Mechwarrior Online beyond the "It's sorta-kinda 3051, so shoot clanners!"

The new player benefit of a 3025 queue alone would make the mode worthwhile.

Edited by Rhaythe, 07 April 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

I believe you would need to separate out the tech levels as well. A stock IS mech with lostech is superior to any without. And that's not adding in any stock clan mechs either....

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see a stock mode, but there are other factors that need to be taken into account as well.

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Nova prime has ER Laser quirks. All clan non-pulse lasers are ER, not just large laser. Cheers!

[Jaeger Gonzo]

FupDup, on 07 April 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

I know it's hard for some people to admit, but stock mechs aren't created equally. Some stock mechs are directly better than others, by either deliberate design or by accident.

I can get into the specific variants and mechs where there are power gaps if you want me to, but basically the point is that you shouldn't say "Oh, stock mode makes every mech good guys" because that's simply false. There will still be superior mechs and inferior mechs as usual.

You can have a stock mode if you really really want it, but don't expect it to be the egalitarian utopia that everyone says it is. There will still be a "meta" and "meta builds."

We play stock for more then a year now. And we know that 3025 TRO stock games are the most balanced, fun and battletechish experience that MWO can offer. Please come out with specific mechs as you say. In our experience just all mechs are viable and decent enough, but please try. As already countless times in other threads I argued just same. You clearly don`t know what are you talking about, we don`t guess, we not presume, we not think. The damn thing was tested count less times by now and we simply KNOW it.

To the OP.
We have tested original armor values. Its not fitting at all to triple RoF we got in MWO.
With original structure and armor, original RoF must go then, that mean 1 shot per 10s, ready to try that?
In my opinion, stock mode just needs 2x ammo from BT value to match 2x structure, armor and of course quirk off, as balance is just perfect without it and they are made to somehow control full custom madness we got.
Weapon stats needs to go back to original again too, like damage, heat, range. As they where tweaked to match full custom madness as well.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 07 April 2015 - 07:16 AM.

[Rhaythe]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 07 April 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

The damn thing was tested count less times by now and we simply KNOW it.

Well, he is right to a point.

There is still a "meta" in stock modes. But it's no where near as drastic as in the public queue. And besides, those mechs that have a "meta" (IE: 3PPC Awesome, AC20 Hunchie, etc) are balanced in other ways. Get inside the 90 meters on that Awesome, and he's only got a small laser to hurt you. Stay at range from that hunchie, and he'll run out of ammo REAL quick. Or better yet, just take out his left shoulder. Balance achieved.

There's Meta, and then there's the Stock Meta. One is far more pronounced and player-driven than the other.

[Jack Corban]

Quote

To the OP.
We have tested original armor values. Its not fitting at all to triple RoF we got in MWO.
With original structure and armor, original RoF must go then, that mean 1 shot per 10s, ready to try that?
In my opinion, stock mode just needs 2x ammo from BT value to match 2x structure, armor and of course quirk off, as balance is just perfect without it and they are made to somehow control full custom madness we got.

I'd be ok with that aswell. As long as increased armor does not take away from the capabilities of a mech to do the intended damage.

Slower RoF is also a thing i could get my head around easy. Maybe not 10 Seconds but slower sure be my guest.

[Jack Corban]

Then why don't we have a sit in and draw up a letter to PGI with concrete wishes and how we would implement those to achieve Stock mode.

I mean we can talk about it all we want as long as we don't make it heard we never get it. That includes making a case for it on the Townhall meetings over at NGNG.

[Burktross]

Fix SHS and you have my support.

[Rhaythe]

Burktross, on 07 April 2015 - 07:29 AM, said:

Fix SHS and you have my support.

Honest question here - what's wrong with SHS, per se? Heat management is a thing in this game (or rather, it should be). In Stock Mech Monday, all mechs are 3025 SHS, and they work fine provided you can manage your heat and don't alpha-strike every five seconds.

[990Dreams]

You're new here aren't you.

Customization has been the heart of BattleTech/MechWarrior for a long time because players can tune their choice of Mech to fit their roles to their needs.

And if you're suggesting a stock-only game mode, it's called Private Matches and/or Stock Mech Mondays. You should try it some time.

[Burktross]

Rhaythe, on 07 April 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

Honest question here - what's wrong with SHS, per se? Heat management is a thing in this game (or rather, it should be). In Stock Mech Monday, all mechs are 3025 SHS, and they work fine provided you can manage your heat and don't alpha-strike every five seconds.

Whereas currently SHS is high cap, low dissapation, i believe it should be a lower cap and more dissapation-- but a discussion for another thread.

Basically, more like this:

[STEF_]

DavidHurricane, on 07 April 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

You're new here aren't you.

Customization has been the heart of BattleTech/MechWarrior for a long time because players can tune their choice of Mech to fit their roles to their needs.

And if you're suggesting a stock-only game mode, it's called Private Matches and/or Stock Mech Mondays. You should try it some time.

I remember stock public matches since mw2, AND I did an entire CW campaign in MW3, with hundreds of teams, only stock mechs.

Why
not
here
in
mwo?....

[Rhaythe]

Burktross, on 07 April 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Whereas currently SHS is high cap, low dissapation, i believe it should be a lower cap and more dissapation-- but a discussion for another thread.

Heh. Oh, the hilarity if suddenly this game used the 30-point heat cap in BT.

[990Dreams]

Stefka Kerensky, on 07 April 2015 - 07:38 AM, said:

I remember stock public matches since mw2, AND I did an entire CW campaign in MW3, with hundreds of teams, only stock mechs.

Why
not
here
in
mwo?....

DavidHurricane, on 07 April 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

And if you're suggesting a stock-only game mode, it's called Private Matches and/or Stock Mech Mondays. You should try it some time.

I hate having to boldface-bigtext for people who are too stupid to read things.

Now, stock Mech nerfing for clans in CW is a good idea because it is slightly canon and the whole reason the IS countered the Clans for real is because the Clans couldn't hold out for long periods of time, unlike IS Mechs. Well, in stock configurations, just look at the ammo and heat management. The IS could win by just surviving if the Clans were made to use only stock in CW.

Edited by DavidHurricane, 07 April 2015 - 07:43 AM.