329 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 14 April 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

Provided you use the official customization rules for kitting out an omnimech, all the configurations are legal so long as you are not participating in some kind of campaign or event that is canon variants only.

And, yeah, in table top you do have to play nice with others, especially in a casual environment. I know that's a crazy thing to consider to people used to online games, but it's amazing how well people get along when they don't treat each other like crap.

Unless it's a run what you brung, or Solaris type tournament, most officially sanctioned events, your omnis are allowed one of the stock variants. And that's it. Mind you, that IS a heck of a lot more open than the IS side..which usually is stuck with whatever stock version their faction runs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 April 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

I would love to see a Firestarter (without AMS or teammates with AMS) tank 8 Streakcrow Salvos. I really would.

While 8 might be as extreme an example as the "turn around the corner and DIE" in 2 volleys listed by the other guy, I have regularly seen 'em tank 5-6 volleys, and have been in them myself and done so myself. (Some of that being thanks to the magic of hitreg, I am sure, but also facing vs spread mechanic.) Over the weekend my Urbanmech was regularly hit by 3-4 volleys and survived (though often with 1-2 locations open, and I can think of 1x I lost an arm.... grrr!)

With the Urbie, I made it a point to keep my face wrapped to the rear when I had a Streak Crow chasing me.

[Ace Selin]

Was playing CW and saw a streak Maddog take down at least a half dozen lights with a couple of volleys for each, i actually remarked at how easy that thing slaughtered any light mech that got within its Streak SRM range.

For streaks to miss the only way that happens that i know of is that the mech is at your max distance and then runs out of streak range before the missiles hit (light likely moving away from you at time you fired). Thats the Clan pilots fault though, because within range Streak SRMs are devastating on anything up to and including Heavy mechs (those with XLs).

Edited by Ace Selin, 14 April 2015 - 03:18 PM.

[Telmasa]

Escef, on 14 April 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

And, yeah, in table top you do have to play nice with others, especially in a casual environment. I know that's a crazy thing to consider to people used to online games, but it's amazing how well people get along when they don't treat each other like crap.

Running around with streakcrows cause you can sounds like treating other players like crap, to me.

If it didn't have the absurdly high range & had a higher penalty for alpha-striking, I wouldn't mind the whole "situationally-anti-light" thing. As it stands though, it's capable of far more than light-hunting.

'Course alot of this may have to do with hitreg and how impervious most light pilots feel once they go past certain speeds & add on jumpjets, and the fact that streaks aren't affected by the hitreg...which, also affects heavier mechs given how people (myself included) still sometimes can see completely wonky hitreg even against the slowest mechs.

[Gyrok]

Ace Selin, on 14 April 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Was playing CW and saw a streak Maddog take down at least a half dozen lights with a couple of volleys for each, i actually remarked at how easy that thing slaughtered any light mech that got within its Streak SRM range.

For streaks to miss the only way that happens that i know of is that the mech is at your max distance and then runs out of streak range before the missiles hit (light likely moving away from you at time you fired). Thats the Clan pilots fault though, because within range Streak SRMs are devastating on anything up to and including Heavy mechs (those with XLs).

Actually...this is how streaks can miss:

1.) Light pilot runs around and manages to stay away from them long enough for 360m to be covered and SSRMs explode. (there is a misconception that 360m means inside 360m, it is effectively like a string 360m long and when it is done the SSRMs pop)

2.) Light pilot uses elevation to cause streaks to collide with terrain.

3.) Light pilot uses horizontal cover to cause streaks to collide with terrain.

4.) Light pilot uses radar dep to break lock

5.) Light pilot eclipses ECM to break lock

6.) Light pilot breaks LOS long enough to break lock

7.) Wonky hitreg.

[Escef]

Gyrok, on 14 April 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Actually...this is how streaks can miss:

1.) Light pilot runs around and manages to stay away from them long enough for 360m to be covered and SSRMs explode. (there is a misconception that 360m means inside 360m, it is effectively like a string 360m long and when it is done the SSRMs pop)

2.) Light pilot uses elevation to cause streaks to collide with terrain.

3.) Light pilot uses horizontal cover to cause streaks to collide with terrain.

4.) Light pilot uses radar dep to break lock

5.) Light pilot eclipses ECM to break lock

6.) Light pilot breaks LOS long enough to break lock

7.) Wonky hitreg.

My personal misfavorite is...

8.) Light pilot trains your missiles into one of your team mates.

Yes, I've gotten TK penalties for that a couple of times.

[-Vompo-]

No matter which mech I'm in I fear a competent player with srm build more than ssrm build.

[Bishop Steiner]

VompoVompatti, on 14 April 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

No matter which mech I'm in I fear a competent player with srm build more than ssrm build.

Amen.

Fear the man that can aim over the one that needs a crutch. Unless you pilot your mech with a steering wheel, apparently.

[Juodas Varnas]

Honestly, i feel the streakboat effectiveness is most of the time decided by the Light's hitboxes.
If it's something like a Spider or Firestarter with their god-tier hitboxes, they'll probably will take all your ammo with them
If it's something like my Jenner, where it's nothing but a giant CT, it gets pretty much one-shot (sometimes two-shot) by the streaker.
That's just my experience against them. I think i have more problems fighting Streakers in my Centurion (mastered) than in a Firestarter (trial). Again. Hitboxes.

[Frostiken]

FupDup, on 07 April 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

Streaks aren't in a weird spot because of lore, they're in a weird spot because PGI felt the need to make them into an "always hit" RNG-targeting system.

This has made them into an "all or nothing" binary weapon that either wreck people in some situations or suck badly in others. There's not much in-between.

It's kinda hard to balance a gun that operates on pendulum-swings from one extreme to the other, so their performance has to be made a lot more consistent so we can measure their overall effectiveness. The best way to do this is to outright redo their whole targeting system so that they take the player's aim into account somehow (i.e. home in on the aimed location) and don't rely on lucky dicerolls to get hits. After that, we can adjust any other stats like range/cooldown/heat/ammo etc. until they get put in a good place.

But of course, that won't happen. Binary Streaks are one of the Legacy Features™ of MWO by this point.

At the very least the locks should be sequential. First streak has to attain a lock, then the second streak, then the third, etc.

CapperDeluxe, on 07 April 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

MWLL definitely had the best streaks, I would really like MWO to take after them.

I seem to recall Streaks being pretty useless in MWLL because at closer ranges against a mech moving laterally, they would just swing wide every time instead of intercepting. I also remember them drilling holes in armor because they'd all hit practically the same spot if they didn't miss. I never saw them as much of an upgrade over regular old SRMs.

[ShinVector]

Ace Selin, on 14 April 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Was playing CW and saw a streak Maddog take down at least a half dozen lights with a couple of volleys for each, i actually remarked at how easy that thing slaughtered any light mech that got within its Streak SRM range.

For streaks to miss the only way that happens that i know of is that the mech is at your max distance and then runs out of streak range before the missiles hit (light likely moving away from you at time you fired). Thats the Clan pilots fault though, because within range Streak SRMs are devastating on anything up to and including Heavy mechs (those with XLs).

I decided to spend the most of the day making Cbills on my ALT account to build a StreakCrow.

Man that Clan Wolf Delta guys is right...
Lights are just impossible to kill with Streak6 and they seems to survive more than 1 alpha.
And its impossible, you can't carry matches in a legged basic StreakCrow... Just Impossible..
No matter how much skill I put into aiming those Streak locks... Still lost... Dammit...

Here is the proof..
Streaks.. Hard mode... ! Takes lots of 'Skill'..



/sarcasm

[Xetelian]

Can we PLEASE just let this thread die?
Streak crows kill lights, they don't kill mediums heavies or assaults. At least I've never seen one be successful against anything outside of lights because the missiles hit everywhere.

[Gyrok]

ShinVector, on 15 April 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

I decided to spend the most of the day making Cbills on my ALT account to build a StreakCrow.

Man that Clan Wolf Delta guys is right...
Lights are just impossible to kill with Streak6 and they seems to survive more than 1 alpha.
And its impossible, you can't carry matches in a legged basic StreakCrow... Just Impossible..
No matter how much skill I put into aiming those Streak locks... Still lost... Dammit...

Here is the proof..
Streaks.. Hard mode... ! Takes lots of 'Skill'..



/sarcasm

You are watching a video of a guy who stands around for 5 minutes, waits til everything is cored and runs around with streaks.

Not only that, the only mech he 1 shots is a light cored everywhere with a blood red ST. He fights a cored hellbie and fires 7 volleys before it goes down...it was already cored! Then, he fights a cored raven with help from another raven and the cored raven takes 2 alphas.

Thanks for proving my point.

[Mar-X-maN]

Meta doesn't make this game fun.



Also LRM are **** for noobs, SSRM are tools for leets.

Edited by Mar X maN, 15 April 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[zortesh]

Streaks alwways felt incredibly weak to me.....

Honetsly a streakcrow is laughable, a splatcrow on the other hand is ******* terrifying.

[Hydrocarbon]

Nightmare1, on 07 April 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

Streak Crows are basically a flashy, powerful glass cannon.

LOLWUT

In a CW match I faced 3 in a row, and ALL THREE got below 13% damage with either one or two S-SRM6's still active (2-4 DPS). Three in a f***ing row below 13% still firing!

The brokencrow is NOT a glass cannon, any build that uses an IS-XL is.


BTW if you do some very crude math you'll find out that a running streakcrow can get at least 2 volleys on a firestarter that sees the mech at the exact 360m mark. Usually a more, because most maps have "pockets" that are much less than 360m, the average mech/pilot is slower than an expert FS9 pilot, and it takes a longer to see the loadout than it does for the brokencrow to get a lock & fire.

IMO there should be ghost heat involved. The fabled 4N can't spam more than 27 dmg w/o ghost heat, yet a mech 2/3 it's size can spam 60 dmg freely?

[Gyrok]

Hydrocarbon, on 15 April 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

LOLWUT

In a CW match I faced 3 in a row, and ALL THREE got below 13% damage with either one or two S-SRM6's still active (2-4 DPS). Three in a f***ing row below 13% still firing!

The brokencrow is NOT a glass cannon, any build that uses an IS-XL is.


BTW if you do some very crude math you'll find out that a running streakcrow can get at least 2 volleys on a firestarter that sees the mech at the exact 360m mark. Usually a more, because most maps have "pockets" that are much less than 360m, the average mech/pilot is slower than an expert FS9 pilot, and it takes a longer to see the loadout than it does for the brokencrow to get a lock & fire.

IMO there should be ghost heat involved. The fabled 4N can't spam more than 27 dmg w/o ghost heat, yet a mech 2/3 it's size can spam 60 dmg freely?

The 4N laughs at the ghost heat for firing 4 at once...5 is tolerable...6 at once can be done...once...

That seems remarkably like the Streakcrow that can alpha once, then fire in volleys...say, all this hyperbole about streakcrows...have you ever driven one? Sounds like you do not...or you have a terribad memory loss problem.

[Nightmare1]

Hydrocarbon, on 15 April 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

LOLWUT

In a CW match I faced 3 in a row, and ALL THREE got below 13% damage with either one or two S-SRM6's still active (2-4 DPS). Three in a f***ing row below 13% still firing!

The brokencrow is NOT a glass cannon, any build that uses an IS-XL is.


BTW if you do some very crude math you'll find out that a running streakcrow can get at least 2 volleys on a firestarter that sees the mech at the exact 360m mark. Usually a more, because most maps have "pockets" that are much less than 360m, the average mech/pilot is slower than an expert FS9 pilot, and it takes a longer to see the loadout than it does for the brokencrow to get a lock & fire.

IMO there should be ghost heat involved. The fabled 4N can't spam more than 27 dmg w/o ghost heat, yet a mech 2/3 it's size can spam 60 dmg freely?

If we're talking Streak Crow versus Light Mech, then sure, they appear OP. However, that is a niche role. Pit the Streak Crow against anything else and it fails. The only thing the Streak Crow is good at is taking out Lights. That's not a bad thing either; canonically, there were Mechs designed to fill specific roles. Just because one Mech is very good at filling a very specific niche, it does not justify a call to nerf that Mech.

Frankly speaking, it sounds to me like you need to MechWarrior up and fight a bit smarter. Stop trying to take on Streak Crows in a Light Mech and fight with your allies. Seriously, they aren't hard to kill if you fight smarter and not harder. I do it all the time.

One last note; if Streak Crows were as overpowered as you and a few other agitators claim, then we would see a lot more of them than we do now. Instead, we see primarily laser vomit followed by SRM and LRM spam. Streak Crows generally aren't found on the field unless you have a Unit that decides to employ one as a Light Hunter/Assault Mech escort.

Edited by Nightmare1, 15 April 2015 - 02:48 PM.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Hydrocarbon, on 15 April 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

LOLWUT

In a CW match I faced 3 in a row, and ALL THREE got below 13% damage with either one or two S-SRM6's still active (2-4 DPS). Three in a f***ing row below 13% still firing!

The brokencrow is NOT a glass cannon, any build that uses an IS-XL is.

Extreme cases happen. They do not prove a point. Further, your presentation does not lead one to give you the benefit of the doubt on whether your are possibly mis-remembering or being hyperbolic

Also:

Quote

The brokencrow

Your bias is showing. Tuck that in, will you?

Quote

IMO there should be ghost heat involved. The fabled 4N can't spam more than 27 dmg w/o ghost heat, yet a mech 2/3 it's size can spam 60 dmg freely?

There very much is ghost heat for firing 30 streaks at once.

Edited by Mirumoto Izanami, 15 April 2015 - 03:02 PM.

[ShinVector]

Gyrok, on 15 April 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Thanks for proving my point.

Yeah... man... Your point is 'proven' man.
Streakcrows are so, weak.. Too bad I could not find that light that could tank 432 damage.