47 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

This time with illustrations to show how dumb this mechanic is!

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So why is it when I fly way over the heat threshold, but allow my mech to shutdown... it's okay...

... yet if I go just the tiniest bit over the threshold, but override... my mech blows up?

Sometimes it blows an arm off, sometimes it blows my cockpit out, but most of the time it blows out the XL in my lights and mediums. And moreover, it happens almost instantaneously. Why is overheat damage-over-time accelerated exponentially when you override shutdown? The DoT should be applied incrementally, at the same rate regardless of whether you shutdown or not. Allowing the mech to shutdown should dissipate the heat much faster, hence the reason the safety mechanism exists in the first place. But if I want to override it, I want my mech to suffer damage at the same rate, not a sudden extraordinary burst of RNG that is completely illogical and counter-intuitive.

It's even completely noob-unfriendly because noobs will wonder why their mech just... blows up instantly when they override instead of taking incremental DoT.

Who's with me?

What happens when you shutdown...

What SHOULD happen when you override...

... it's logical and makes sense:

What actually happens...

... insta-Boom!

[Night Thastus]

I'm not sure how this is happening to you, exactly. If I hit the override and fire a little bit of weaponry, I take a very small amount of internal damage, then cool down. If I KEEP firing while my heat is over 100%, then I'm screwed.

I think you're not considering the variety of things happening in battle. If this game is like any of the older ones, you should get somewhat hot just from being hit with certain weapons (not just flamers). Walking increases your heat depending on how fast you're walking, some areas have VERY high heat (like terra therma center or caustic valley center) and thus you cool down very slowly, and if using override, even if you only went 10% over the threshold, you might find yourself cooling down so slowly that you take significant damage.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Tarogato, on 12 April 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

So why is it when I fly way over the heat threshold, but allow my mech to shutdown... it's okay...

... yet if I go just the tiniest bit over the threshold, but override... my mech blows up?

You take very minor DoT when over 100% heat and shutdown. You take HUGE DoT when over 100% heat and powered up. When you press override, you stop shutting down.

So, you should only override if you know you're going to barely go over 100% and then com back down without skimming over 100% a second time...

If you want to get that last shot off and you know you'll soar way over 100%, then just shoot without overriding. You'll be fine. The game let's you do that with very minor DoT to the CT.

[Lexx]

Working as intended.

If they changed it to the way YOU want it, (not necessarily the way it should be, just what you think they should do), then it would get abused even more than it does now.

You're supposed to be taking a huge risk by letting your heat scale go over the maximum level. That risk includes the chance of immediate death.

Having it slowly damage your mech until the heat drops below max level isn't really much of a risk.

Edited by Lexx, 12 April 2015 - 02:23 PM.

[Gamuray]

I experienced it often when I tried out the new override staying on thing. I just don't use it anymore unless I know I'll be dead by the time I boot back up. If you go over the heat limit just a tad, there is a chance that all of it will go to your head and kill you immediately, which happened to me a few time. No other internal damage, minor armor damage, not long into the match, riding heat line and fire a medium slightly to soon AND, dead.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Shutting down is how your fusion engine is supposed to work.

Overriding is not. What you're doing is "overriding" the safeties designed to protect your mech from high waste heat spikes. Turning the safeties off results in problems as the system winds up operating outside of its designed parameters.

Generally, one should only override manufacturer intended operational parameters when it's an emergency situation, for instance when allowing the in-built safeties to shut down your mech when it's got excessive internal heat loads would result in destruction by enemy fire. In those situations, it's usually worth it to override the safeties in order to restart the engine and regain mobility ASAP, and most times won't result in too much internal damage unless you were really pushing your heat just prior to shutdown.

[Sir Wulfrick]

*shrug* I never use override, even on hot mechs such as my 4N or Wubshee. I just keep a careful eye on my heat scale. Much better to have to move and fight again a couple of seconds later than risking death for just another alpha.

[ROSS-128]

Override is kind of hit or miss for me, though I often run with it on because, to me, taking a few points of damage from accidentally tapping the 100% line is preferable to finding myself suddenly shut down.

Override is definitely a fickle beast though. Sometimes I can tap 100 and walk away with zero heat damage because I cooled down quickly, other times tapping 100 causes the damage to start instantly, and the damage keeps going until I cool below 70%. Sometimes the damage is spread all over (and takes out my arms first) and I can take down three enemy mechs before the heat finally kills me, other times my mech's head pops before Betty can even say "Heat".

Lighter mechs seem to be more vulnerable to override damage for some reason. They start taking it sooner, and they keep taking damage longer after they cool down.

[zagibu]

I agree with the OP, the mechanic is practically useless because even if you only go slightly over 100%, it can randomly kill an otherwise healthy mech. While this might be realistic, it's bad from a gameplay perspective.

Going over 100% should just do constant high damage to the inner structure of your mech until you have dissipated the heat to below 100% again. This is risky enough, and would still result in certain death, when firing a serious alpha while being close to max. But it would give you the choice of avoiding the shut down by taking damage instead.

Then if they would finally remove the 90% heat cap flamers can induce, you might actually be able to cook your enemies once again, if they run around with overridden safety shutdown.

Edited by zagibu, 12 April 2015 - 03:07 PM.

[Armorine]

Override works as it should. You push the limits you run the risks.

[Tahribator]

I see no need to change the current implementation. It's a high risk/low reward feature and it should stay that way.

[Deathlike]

Whenever you override and overheat, you are playing the literal RNG game, where "heat damage" flashes any part of the mech.. including the head, and damages the internals further (also indirectly causing ammo explosions through the damage).

If you have nothing to lose, override is your last resort. If you're healthy and dumb, well.. you can play overheat roulette.

[Tarogato]

zagibu, on 12 April 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

... the mechanic is practically useless because even if you only go slightly over 100%, it can randomly kill an otherwise healthy mech. While this might be realistic, it's bad from a gameplay perspective.

Going over 100% should just do constant high damage to the inner structure of your mech until you have dissipated the heat to below 100% again. This is risky enough, and would still result in certain death, when firing a serious alpha while being close to max. But it would give you the choice of avoiding the shut down by taking damage instead.

Then if they would finally remove the 90% heat cap flamers can induce, you might actually be able to cook your enemies once again, if they run around with overridden safety shutdown.

Ah, this poster gets it. Good phrase, "bad from a gameplay perspective", because that's how it really feels.

See, I understand that you should suffer the consequences from turning off the safeties - that's what I'm saying and yes I think you should take serious damage. The issue, instead of damage over time, it often happens almost instantaneously to one single component, hence completely killing you for hitting 101% instead of just punishing you. You're getting your head chopped off instead of taking multiple lashes from the whip, so to speak. No trial, no jury, no appeals, just straight execution. This makes override almost always the worse choice. Go 3% over the threshold and insta-die, or shutdown in front of the enemy? I've found that I'm usually safer shutting down in front of a DWF then pressing 'O' to fire one extra medium laser.

Part of the issue, as somebody mentioned that lights are more susceptible, is that it's doing damage over time (DoT) instead of percent damage over time (%DoT). The former punishes lights unfairly (at least in my opinion.) and since I pilot mostly lights and mediums, I might notice it more prominently than people that stick to heavies and assaults.

Basically my tl;dr request: I want overheat damage to hurt me incrementally, not a roll of dice to see if my 100% healthy mech blows up instantly or not.

[Xetelian]

I'm all for a change and having overheat damage kill you if you override and fire even a medium laser is pretty silly.

[Naduk]

im fine with how it is at the moment
ops suggestion would be fun, the damage would still need to be large like it is now (to prevent abuse) but applied over a slightly longer period

if this did go though tho betty would need some new lines to inform you of all the nasty things like fires and meltdown damage that is occurring so that people realize its not a good idea to push the red line because it pushes back

infact betty just needs more to say in general

[Astarot]

I would agree with the OP only under a certain condition. What that condition you ask? That they fix how ammo explosions happen with going over heat thresh hold and make it more predictable.

Basically they need to fix it so that heat damage is done not only to the internal structure more predictably, but also to what equip to that internal structure, allowing for not only engine destruction, and internals destruction, but also ammo explosions, and weapon destruction/ectra. Till they make that more predictable and reliable, then I don't suggest making a change to the current system at all. Once they do fulfill those conditions that I outlined, then I will accept heat over-ride spreading it damage out more across the entire mech.

[Bobzilla]

I sort of agree with OP.

Heat shouldn't be dmg or nothing tho. Which is the problem. Risk of blowing up is ok, but not from having zero penalty then jumping to death, it's completely poor design in all aspects.

[Tarl Cabot]

Put in other BT heatscale factors, slowing down/decrease in responsiveness-torso movement this will not be an issue except for the really determined players in dire straits.

The fact that you can approach then exceed the heat scale without hitting any other negative effects is bad from a gameplay perceptive.

On the issue itself it likely missing packet information from the servers not showing the mechs true reading, also that override damage is to a random location instead of just to the CT. In your example, when the small laser was fired, where were you and what was the mech doing? Was it running/jumping/standing still?

Considering it was a small laser and the side torso killed you, were you in a light with an XL engine?

Correct me if this is wrong below.

Auto-shutdown occurs below 100%?
The damage caused by overheating is to Internal Structure, not the armor?
And with Internal Structure damage critical hits are possible, leading to future damage?
And if there is ammo in that location, ammo explosions?

Quote

Protip: The use of this function runs the risk of causing an internal ammunition explosion which will damage or even destroy your mech. It should be used with caution!

Also the internal structure will definitively start to slowly take damage once the Mech overheats and the automatic shutdown sequence gets overridden.

Furthermore it is important know that this function must be activated before the heat level of the Mech reaches 100 %. After its activation the automatic shut down sequence will be overridden for a total amount of 5 seconds. During that time the warning message “OVERRIDE ENGAGED” will be displayed in the upper part of the screen.

On other threads about the same issue, many noted that from their perspective the damage from override is more severe than auto-shutdown but that could be simply due to standing still and the environment not having any further effects.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 April 2015 - 07:36 PM.

[Davegt27]

I am with you Taro

What they (PGI) should want is Mechs firing at each other not overheat blow-up
Systems should first be reduced or turned off

For example you lose your PPC's ability to fire or they fire at half power

First one weapon is taken of line then two and so on

[EgoSlayer]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 April 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

Put in other BT heatscale factors, slowing down/decrease in responsiveness-torso movement this will not be an issue except for the really determined players in dire straits.

The fact that you can approach then exceed the heat scale without hitting any other negative effects is bad from a gameplay perceptive.

On the issue itself it likely missing packet information from the servers not showing the mechs true reading, also that override damage is to a random location instead of just to the CT. In your example, when the small laser was fired, where were you and what was the mech doing? Was it running/jumping/standing still?

Considering it was a small laser and the side torso killed you, were you in a light with an XL engine?

Correct me if this is wrong below.

Auto-shutdown occurs below 100%?
The damage caused by overheating is to Internal Structure, not the armor?
And with Internal Structure damage critical hits are possible, leading to future damage?
And if there is ammo in that location, ammo explosions?


On other threads about the same issue, many noted that from their perspective the damage from override is more severe than auto-shutdown but that could be simply due to standing still and the environment not having any further effects.

The damage is greater when you override - some people say 400% more but I believe this is still correct for the basic calculation but it starts at 100% now when override is on, not 120%:
http://mwomercs.com/...29-02-jul-2013/
It's based on both weight and engine size. So while it seems like lights get the worst of it, it's really only because most people are running exceptionally large engines in light relative to other mech classes.

Quote

- Critical Heat Damage System.
- Mechs reaching 120% heat will start taking damage to their center torso at (0.75 damage + (0.001 damage per tonne) + (0.001 damage per engine rating)) / 1.5 sec.
- The damage will continue until heat drops below 100%. This damage will occur both during an automatic shutdown and when overriding shutdown.
- To indicate this heat damage is being applied, a yellow siren light will turn on inside the cockpit.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 12 April 2015 - 08:05 PM.