88 replies to this topic

[Virgil Greyson]

MilesTeg1982, on 08 April 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

[Sarcasmn] sure it isn't about the urbanmech - thats why it wasn't mentioned in this topic at all, and thats why there isn't another thread in Featuere Suggestion with the exact same reference ... [Sarcasmn off]

face it - you wanted to have a trashcan and you got one, live with it.

You are just a ball of misery arent you?

[Alienized]

FupDup, on 08 April 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Note that my suggestion for every engine to have 10 internal sinks would require all sub-250 engines to have their weight increased to account for those new heatsinks, because right now their weight was reduced due to external sinks (i.e. an engine with 3 external sinks is 3 tons lighter than its "expected" value).

The net tonnage would be the same in the end, you'd just gain critslots and better cooling (2.0 dubs vs 1.4 dubs).

and that last sentence is why i am against it. we dont need more critslots for boating or anything else that makes boating easier. we need to go away from all the improves boating....

[FupDup]

Alienized, on 08 April 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

and that last sentence is why i am against it. we dont need more critslots for boating or anything else that makes boating easier. we need to go away from all the improves boating....

If you use a mech of higher tonnage, you can just use larger engines to save critslots as it is, and thus boat easily. Look at mechs like the Timberwolf. The "Big Engine Stomp Meta" (term coined by Gman) is a real thing, because of this game's arm's race to mount huge engines.

Why should an XL200 engine, for example, require more critical space than an XL250?

All it does is punish mechs who aren't fortunate enough to have an engine cap of at least 250. This mostly just applies to small/slow lights and low-end mediums, who aren't exactly good boats to begin with.

Edited by FupDup, 08 April 2015 - 07:54 AM.

[Nori Silverrage]

MilesTeg1982, on 08 April 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

[Sarcasmn] sure it isn't about the urbanmech - thats why it wasn't mentioned in this topic at all, and thats why there isn't another thread in Featuere Suggestion with the exact same reference ... [Sarcasmn off]

face it - you wanted to have a trashcan and you got one, live with it.

Meh, I don't care too much about the Urban mech. I've been thinking this ever since I bought some light mechs. The Urbie just brings it to the forefront because it is supposed to have a ac10/20 but because of the heatsink requirement basically can't effectively do so.

Ballistic slots in lights pretty much are just MG slots. I for one think it would be nice to at least allow some weird niche builds instead of the hordes of medium laser lights.

[Joseph Mallan]

10 is the number of base Heat Sinks and the number of base Heat Sinks is 10!

[Alienized]

FupDup, on 08 April 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

If you use a mech of higher tonnage, you can just use larger engines to save critslots as it is, and thus boat easily. Look at mechs like the Timberwolf. The "Big Engine Stomp Meta" (term coined by Gman) is a real thing, because of this game's arm's race to mount huge engines.

Why should an XL200 engine, for example, require more critical space than an XL250?

All it does is punish mechs who aren't fortunate enough to have an engine cap of at least 250. This mostly just applies to small/slow lights and low-end mediums, who aren't exactly good boats to begin with.

yep but my idea is more punish the mechs that can use and abuse the high rating engines. its just not good for this game.
mechs like the highlander suffer under it the most because it has such a low engine rating.
the centurion can make up for it with a shield arm and agility.
most mechs got hitreg problems if you stuff a high rated engine into it just look at the firestarters, enforcers and even ravens. they just should not go that fast. a stock raven goes 97.... cap it to 130 and it would be fine instead of ridicoulos 152 and more. Huginn should be an exception because its a pure SRM spammer and custom but 140 should still be max.

the list can go on to many mechs in many weightclasses.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 07 April 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

I'm okay with needing 10 sinks.

What I'm NOT okay with is the TT rule that sub-250 engines can't fit all 10 sinks on the inside. It doesn't really add anything, and just serves to nerf mechs that are already disadvantaged in some way (usually, mechs with sub-250 engine limits are on the lower end of the light or medium class...).

Just ghost the external sinks to the inside, adjust engine weights accordingly, and we'll be fine. It'll free up a lot of critslots and give a bit of a cooling boost to the afflicted mechs.

I understand your grumble. I came to terms with it once Mech Construction rules were established back in the 80s. Including all 10 sinks in a Mech's engine ended way way back then. Please fill out a complaint form in triplicate, and it will be processed in the order is was received. As this topic has been complained about for over 3 decades now... You will be waiting a while for a response. Please continue to play the game as the DEVs have designed it, and have a nice day.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 April 2015 - 08:07 AM.

[MilesTeg1982]

Nori Silverrage, on 08 April 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Meh, I don't care too much about the Urban mech. I've been thinking this ever since I bought some light mechs. The Urbie just brings it to the forefront because it is supposed to have a ac10/20 but because of the heatsink requirement basically can't effectively do so.

Ballistic slots in lights pretty much are just MG slots. I for one think it would be nice to at least allow some weird niche builds instead of the hordes of medium laser lights.

care to explain how you don't care too much about the Urbanmech and then request a special treatment for that mech? Also - you can use AC10/AC20 - why the hell can't you use them? Oh I see because that limits the size of the engine and makes it slow ... well thats not really a suprise, isn't it?

Seriously - you can't go to a cardealer, order a Lada and expect to get a Porsche instead either ..

[FupDup]

Alienized, on 08 April 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

yep but my idea is more punish the mechs that can use and abuse the high rating engines. its just not good for this game.
mechs like the highlander suffer under it the most because it has such a low engine rating.
the centurion can make up for it with a shield arm and agility.
most mechs got hitreg problems if you stuff a high rated engine into it just look at the firestarters, enforcers and even ravens. they just should not go that fast. a stock raven goes 97.... cap it to 130 and it would be fine instead of ridicoulos 152 and more. Huginn should be an exception because its a pure SRM spammer and custom but 140 should still be max.

the list can go on to many mechs in many weightclasses.

Capping engines won't do much against mechs that come stock with the big engines and won't really help mechs with sub-250 engines.

[Almond Brown]

FupDup, on 08 April 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:

Note that my suggestion for every engine to have 10 internal sinks would require all sub-250 engines to have their weight increased to account for those new heatsinks, because right now their weight was reduced due to external sinks (i.e. an engine with 3 external sinks is 3 tons lighter than its "expected" value).

The net tonnage would be the same in the end, you'd just gain critslots and better cooling (2.0 dubs vs 1.4 dubs).

Not going to happen but perhaps a compromise. Allow the extra HS's to be added under the engine bonnet for Lights, as they do now for those HS's that are granted with the over 250 series engines.

No Crits consumed, weight is accounted for and extra cooling is not granted. Last thing we need is even "cooler FS's" running around ffs.

Thus all Engines below 250 put into a "Light Class" Mech gets the slots allocated under the hood @1.4 & 1 t each.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 April 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

I understand your grumble. I came to terms with it once Mech Construction rules were established back in the 80s. Including all 10 sinks in a Mech's engine ended way way back then. Please fill out a complaint form in triplicate, and it will be processed in the order is was received. As this topic has been complained about for over 3 decades now... You will be waiting a while for a response. Please continue to play the game as the DEVs have designed it, and have a nice day.

Sometimes the designers do things that aren't as great as they thought they would be. Will it change? Probably not, but that doesn't make it a beneficial system in any way. I don't particularly care what things were like "decades ago," I'm concerned about now and the future.

[Alienized]

FupDup, on 08 April 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Capping engines won't do much against mechs that come stock with the big engines and won't really help mechs with sub-250 engines.

because those are desgined like it. nothign wrong there but it would make some horrendous alphastrike loadouts impossible to use and thus make things a bit more balanced.

[FupDup]

Almond Brown, on 08 April 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Not going to happen but perhaps a compromise. Allow the extra HS's to be added under the engine bonnet for Lights, as they do now for those HS's that are granted with the over 250 series engines.

No Crits consumed, weight is accounted for and extra cooling is not granted. Last thing we need is even "cooler FS's" running around ffs.

Thus all Engines below 250 put into a "Light Class" Mech gets the slots allocated under the hood @1.4 & 1 t each.

All well-built Firestarters already carry engines larger than 250, so they already get the full benefit of 10x "Trudubs" in the engine. They don't get buffed by this.

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 08 April 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

Not going to happen but perhaps a compromise. Allow the extra HS's to be added under the engine bonnet for Lights, as they do now for those HS's that are granted with the over 250 series engines.

No Crits consumed, weight is accounted for and extra cooling is not granted. Last thing we need is even "cooler FS's" running around ffs.

Thus all Engines below 250 put into a "Light Class" Mech gets the slots allocated under the hood @1.4 & 1 t each.

On TT the first 10 take up crits but no mass, So with a 60 rate engine the Urban had what 7-8 weight free sinks.

[FupDup]

Alienized, on 08 April 2015 - 08:10 AM, said:

because those are desgined like it. nothign wrong there but it would make some horrendous alphastrike loadouts impossible to use and thus make things a bit more balanced.

That doesn't stop mechs "who are designed like it" from using those "horrendous alphastrike loadouts." You're just choosing who gets to use them.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 08 April 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Sometimes the designers do things that aren't as great as they thought they would be. Will it change? Probably not, but that doesn't make it a beneficial system in any way. I don't particularly care what things were like "decades ago," I'm concerned about now and the future.

It made sense to me. Bigger engine could hold more of the base sinks and keep em free from damage. Not everything has to be beneficial in a game I'm afraid. It's a balance of Pros and Cons. And Stability in a game's rules is a good thing. With the exception of a few new toys added, I can play a game of CBT without really needing any of the Core rule books as the rules inside are mostly the same with only a bit better explaination of what this DEV group says the rules mean. It's not like playing D&D, where you have 7 different versions of the core rules with 3 MAJOR revisions.

[Revis Volek]

Hyper99, on 08 April 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think it's there to prevent mechs such as:

Firebrand 2x Gauss, 6x ML. Which would be super hot but as a one shot alpha would be deadly as hell. With needing 10 heat sinks your limiting how much stuff you can just cram ballistics wise. AKA if I needed zero heat sinks I could pile on 40 MGs (theoretically)....

What?

You cant put more weapons on then hardpoints available to the mech....so no mech can put on 40 mg's.

I dont get that comparison....

[Alienized]

FupDup, on 08 April 2015 - 08:12 AM, said:

That doesn't stop mechs "who are designed like it" from using those "horrendous alphastrike loadouts." You're just choosing who gets to use them.

uhm.. i will check which IS mechs are currently used with engines of far higher ratings than they have stock and make a list which ones would been hurt the most. i guess some raven loadouts would disappear as well as a vcitor with XL350 but the victor does not need such a change. a banshee with XL400 tho and 4-6 large pulses would disappear. it would still run the weapons but the speed is the problem on it, same goes for the battlemasters that run too fast.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hyper99, on 08 April 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

I think it's there to prevent mechs such as:

Firebrand 2x Gauss, 6x ML. Which would be super hot but as a one shot alpha would be deadly as hell. With needing 10 heat sinks your limiting how much stuff you can just cram ballistics wise. AKA if I needed zero heat sinks I could pile on 40 MGs (theoretically)....

Don't 2 Gauss weigh as much as a firestarter???

Alienized, on 08 April 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

uhm.. i will check which IS mechs are currently used with engines of far higher ratings than they have stock and make a list which ones would been hurt the most. i guess some raven loadouts would disappear as well as a vcitor with XL350 but the victor does not need such a change. a banshee with XL400 tho and 4-6 large pulses would disappear. it would still run the weapons but the speed is the problem on it, same goes for the battlemasters that run too fast.

Define to fast?

[Nori Silverrage]

MilesTeg1982, on 08 April 2015 - 08:07 AM, said:

care to explain how you don't care too much about the Urbanmech and then request a special treatment for that mech? Also - you can use AC10/AC20 - why the hell can't you use them? Oh I see because that limits the size of the engine and makes it slow ... well thats not really a suprise, isn't it?

Seriously - you can't go to a cardealer, order a Lada and expect to get a Porsche instead either ..

I'm not requesting special treatment for the Urbanmech. Heck I haven't even piloted the thing yet. I'm asking for something I have thought about a lot in the last few months, which is not requiring 10 heatsinks for light mechs. It isn't going to buff any of the energy based mechs, it will just allow certain niche builds to actually be viable (never would really be meta anyway).

Edited by Nori Silverrage, 08 April 2015 - 08:30 AM.