12 replies to this topic

[Deadeye2907]

I hope this is the right place to put this, I don't use forums much

I LOVE Lasers, especially pulse lasers, and I've been looking into the heavy 'Mechs. The Grasshopper looks great, but there's one thing holding me back...
I HATE buying XL Engines. I love using them (going fast and having a lot of tonnage is always fun) but saving up C-Bills just to be able to run a build I would have wanted to run in the first place annoys me

Do Grasshoppers run XLs? And if they do, is the 'Mech such a blast to play that it is worth it to invest in an XL?

[Michal R]

I use them on STD. Full of MPL. It work's

[MadLibrarian]

It does well without XLs, but it seems to be quite XL friendly.

[Tim East]

I'm using a standard with 3LPL in the torsos, 4SPL in the arms, and 1MPL in the head. It's a beast, if a little bit slow.

Why XL when you can zombie with that head slot?

They are a little on the big side though. I remember looking down at a friendly Cataphract and thinking, "Wot?"

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Good STD engine for hoppers is the stock 280 or 300.

with 300 you can do the popular 2LPL 4ML laserbuild and still move relatively fast. Metahopper

i just devised that to CW matches,note the low armor on the shield arm,also you can do 2 LPL 5 ML in the 5H like this with the stock STD280. Keep atleast 1 LPL in the CT for zombie goodness.

5J is the XL-platform,if you have a XL350,XL325 or XL360,theyll fit well in the 5J,use all wub lineup(1 LPL + 5 MPL etc.)

[Beefer]

Honestly, I think to get the most out of the Grasshopper you probably should run with an XL. I've Elited all three, and I think I died to losing my side torso maybe 4 times the whole process. An XL just lets you do more - the 'Hopper is supposed to be a fast, agile heavy, and with a 280 or 300 Standard in it it frankly feels like a Cataphract with Laz0rs. If that's what you're looking for great, but I wanted to run and jump and play it like an (oversized) medium. The XL lets you roll with 3LPL in all three configs, plus MLs or MPLs to taste. Moreover you can run with 3 engine DHS (in the 325+ engines), and more DHS overall, which obviously makes you much more effective.

Compare:

280 STD, 64.8kph, 31.5 tons of free space after respectable armor
300 STD, 69.4kph, 28.5 tons of free space after respectable armor
330XL, 76.4kph, 34 tons of free space after respectable armor

You can take off ES and lose 3.5 tons of space in each config. Without JJ you can reasonably run 4LPL plus 3 engine sinks and 3 exterior sinks.

Granted, the 330XL is pricey - 5.4M Cbills is nothing to sneeze at, but you can use it in all three variants.

Edited by Beefer, 10 April 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Deadeye2907]

Thanks for all the help! I purchased the Grasshoppers earlier today and I am very happy with them. I think I'm going to end up buying the XL 330 with Cbills when I can.

[grendeldog]

Hey guys, I'm just wondering what the logic behind going with the XL330 was. I'm not knocking the idea at all mind you, I'm just curious as to your thoughts on the tradeoffs between the 325, 330, and 340. If you want the three engine heat sinks - and I do / imagine you do too - then the 325 would suffice. Alternately, if you're going to go higher than 325, why not go balls out and go for the 340?

I was planning my GHR-5H with an XL340, 4 ML, the LL in the CT, and 2 LPL, one in each of the higher torso mounts. Alternately I could go with the same XL340 and keep the 4 ML, but with 2 LL in the side torsos and 1 LPL in the center, plus some more armor and another DHS.

With that said, I haven't taken a hard look yet at the other two variants with the XL340. So does the 330 have some advantage over the 340 as far as allowing more flexible builds in the other two variants? Or is there another reason to go 330 instead of 340 that I'm missing? Again I'm not knocking the choice of the 330, just trying to understand better why to choose that engine over the 340.

Thanks!

EDIT: Okay, so I did some more research in Smurfy, and the 330 does seem to be a better option than the 340, as it allows things like 3 ERLL on the 5J (which has an ERLL cooldown quirk) while still keeping an SRM 4, two AMS, ammo for SRM and AMS, 6 JJs, and a cooling efficiency of 31 before any leveling up to elite. Obviously that's not probably the best, most meta-optimized build, but it demonstrates the point.

Likewise, on the 5N, it allows the absurdity of 8 MPL with pre-elite cooldown eff. of 35% and a bit more armor, or 7 MPL with cool eff. of 42%, AMS, and a ton of AMS ammo.

However, this gets back to my original question in a way, because with the XL325 on the 5N you can run all 8 MPL with stock armor and no AMS with a cooling efficiency of 37%. So is the tradeoff of that extra half-ton to get a 330 worth it because you'll not likely find a use for a half ton on the various builds? Or does the 325 potentially hold more merit, perhaps for being compatible with more mechs than the 330?

So yeah, I think the 330 is indeed a better choice than the 340 for the GHR. But what makes the 330 superior to a 325 then, since they have the same number of internal heatsinks? I'd be curious to hear any opinions, thanks!

Edited by grendeldog, 12 April 2015 - 08:42 PM.

[Michal R]

You can use 330 in other mechs.
There are some engines that are universal, like 300, 280, 360.
Only that.

[grendeldog]

That's cool, I expected that might be the reason. I bit the bullet and bought an XL330, and it has made all the difference in the world to this mech's survivability. I'm running the 4H with the 330, 2 LPL in the high torso mounts, one LLas in the center torso, and four mediums in the arms and low torso mounts. Managed to get the creeping death achievement today with this configuration on Viridian: four kills, several assists, many components destroyed, 600+ damage, one of three mechs left on our team at the end of the match. I suppose you could run two MPL in the low torso mounts in lieu of the four MLas, but that's a lousy tradeoff of lots of potential damage for a little bit of a shorter beam duration. Frankly I suggest that you mostly shoot the LPLs and the four ML, as the LLas has a longer burn time and therefor you must state longer. I would however keep the LL instead of ditching it entirely so you can poke at reasonable range if need be, and also for when you just want to dump a maximum alpha on some unsuspecting enemy mech.

I'll be moving on to the 4N I believe it is (the one with the head energy hardpoint) with the XL330 tomorrow - I hear 7 MPL do some nasty things to enemy mechs!

Edited by grendeldog, 13 April 2015 - 08:23 PM.

[Beefer]

Yeah, honestly I think I just had the 330XL leftover from another mech (X5? I think?). No particular reason over a 325 or 350 other than I could fit everything I needed in. I'd imagine the speed increase/decrease either way isn't very noticeable, probably like 2-2.5 kph. Either way, the XL speed + added firepower is the way to go I think.

[grendeldog]

Beefer, on 14 April 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

Yeah, honestly I think I just had the 330XL leftover from another mech (X5? I think?). No particular reason over a 325 or 350 other than I could fit everything I needed in. I'd imagine the speed increase/decrease either way isn't very noticeable, probably like 2-2.5 kph. Either way, the XL speed + added firepower is the way to go I think.

Yeah, I frankly don't know how you would run the GHR with a standard engine. I mean I've seen the builds on the mechspecs forum, but in that case the tradeoff is either speed or firepower - not both. And I think the Hopper just plain sucks when it's slow, and sucks when it's under-gunned like all three of the stock builds. But the XL offers a way to have both.

I can say that the times I have died from side torso destruction are times I would have died anyway - the team is all dead or mostly dead and I'm getting focus fired. I think I could count the number of times I've died due to the XL when the team was still healthy and / or winning on one hand.

Also, I thought I would hate the resistance variant due to its exchanging hardpoints for the possibility of more jump jets, and also because all the energy hardpoints ars in the arms. But I have yet to lose an arm in it, and it may well have tied the 4H as my favorite variant. I'm on an XL330, 3 ERLL, two ML, AMS, an LRM5, and five JJs (stock is four, max is six).

That may not appear to be the most focused of builds, but actually it works quite well. The LRM gives me something to do when I don't have line of sight, and also adds that extra little bit of damage that can make a difference while engaging at 200-500 m. The 3 ERLL have a quirk on the 4J variant - either cooldown or heat, I believe it is cooldown - in addition to the normal GHR energy quirks. They let me poke at long range, and offer a serious punch up close. And then those 2 ML are there for when I have closed range and need to do the most damage if it appears a brawl is developing. The AMS allows some lurm protection while I stare in order to get the full burn time on the enemy, and the fifth jump jet gives me the jumping ability to more effectively tank wih my legs.

I just finished out the night with a win in Mordor, and with basic heat efficiency and capacity I could actually alpha twice, then chainfire. I got three kills and came out of the match with all three torso segments stripped of armor - but alive. If I hadn't had the JJs, I would have died long before the match was over to either the Blackjack or the Timber that I alpha murdered with the help of two lights.

Anyhow, I digress a lot - XL330 is awesome on the Hopper, the arm-only hardpoints aren't actually that bad on the 4J, and that fifth JJ actually kicks rear end.

Edited by grendeldog, 15 April 2015 - 10:13 PM.

[Novawrecker]

The mech still needs work. PGI needs to sorely revisit the Grasshopper and seriously reconsider changing the mech's archetyle from Huge to Large as well as provide a tad boon to its JJ agility as well as its increasing the mech's nimbleness. This mech does not feel like, and poorly represents, the light/medium hunter it was supposed to be. It's more akin to a very sluggish Assault with even more poor JJ ability.

PGI please, take a look at the Grasshopper again. It definitely needs help.