20 replies to this topic

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

After having a match in which the two 4 man squads, myself being part of one of them, had different game plans, causing the team to lose due to lack of focus on a single task, I'm just curious as to what tactic people prefer in invasion matches.

I prefer leaving no enemies left alive by the end of the match so that the rewards are massive and the game lasts a bit longer than a quick gen rush without a real fight. I tend to find taking out the generator distasteful, as it doesn't give the enemies a chance to prove themselves in full combat, rather they are ignored as if they weren't even there, quite rude.

I don't see why people would prefer to take the gen rush route, but I'd like to know the reasons.

[justcallme A S H]

Totally depends on loadouts and player ability.

If units are going for leaderboard, they are probably going to gen rush, nature of the event. Again low skill, will gen rush also. IMO if that is what the team wants to do, don't argue and go with it because their loadouts will be setup for it.

Traders can still push/rush where brawler/rushers can't. Just how it is.

[Monkey Lover]

I find it more distasteful when a team milks the others for kills. If you can just walk up and kill the generators do it and find another match with another skilled team.

[mrpetzold]

Get 12-mans together. Work across units, expand your friendlist etc. That will make this alot easier for you.
And why should one not milk the cbills Monkey Lover?

[ccrider]

I find gen rushing distasteful, but if the enemy is a strong 12 man and we have 6 or fewer players with a mix of pugs, then anything goes to get the win. But honestly, shooting robots is more fun than shooting gens.

[Leone]

So, preferred tactics huh. Well, I'm in favour of kicking down the gates and charging in destroying everything in our path. Targets should, in order, be mechs and turrets, and then, when everything else is cleared, Gens.

If the opfor manages to keep engaging and keep us from getting to the gens, then Great! Awesome! We got a full on match.

If not? Well then, wipe the gens and requeue for another match.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 05 May 2017 - 08:18 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

mrpetzold, on 05 May 2017 - 06:31 PM, said:

Get 12-mans together. Work across units, expand your friendlist etc. That will make this alot easier for you.
And why should one not milk the cbills Monkey Lover?

Why do you need to milk cbills ? Just play the game and get them like normal.

[meteorol]

Depends on what you want to do.

If you care about moving the bar, gen rushes are good vs. PUGs. I play this event on my alt, just got base rushed in two waves by a 10 man 228th. Was one of 2 Pugs to manage more than 1k damage.

With a 10man against 12 pugs, gen rushing is almost garuanteed to get you a quick win (if you aren't a large davion loyality unit). If you are out for quick wins, baserushing pugs is probably the best way to get them.

[Mycroft000]

My unit (Rebel Yell RBYL) has only just begun fielding larger groups in faction play, and I've established a rule for us that we play with honor; this means no spawn rushing; we respect 1v1 challenges; we go for the objective of the match; and most importantly, we DO NOT farm for damage.

[Lily from animove]

Monkey Lover, on 05 May 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

I find it more distasteful when a team milks the others for kills. If you can just walk up and kill the generators do it and find another match with another skilled team.

but the 400 matchscore and min 80 match score as well as accumulated matchscore requirements of the event simply make people focus on matchscore and matchscore comes formm damage and not finishing the objective. this is still since the beginning of non skirmish gamemodes the biggest flaw of matchscore. gen rushing grants low score and probably not even the min 80 for some of the challange requirements. So why would those not having much time focus on these tactics and missing out the events requirements?

may eb bad luck, but what amde me wonder too is, protect vs gatehr ratio, only 4 of 13 matches were gather. Which is making it harder for clanners to also get intel because in protection you cna at best preent gain but not ahcieve any.

But maybe indeed only a unlucky sample of my side.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 May 2017 - 09:01 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Monkey Lover, on 05 May 2017 - 08:12 PM, said:

Why do you need to milk cbills ? Just play the game and get them like normal.

I'd like to note that the battle in question was not a case of milking cbills. It was a close fight, in fact we had lost the first wave 2-9 after the enemy team, which had a full 8 man compared to our 2 4 man teams, had crushed us in an enveloping flank.

I could see then that the battle would have been a wonderful test of skill on either side if only a third of the team didn't decide to focus on gen rushing then suicide once they saw no hope of victory. In the end we took out a little over half of them, with a bit of focus fire from the team instead of gen focus we could have brought it to a win.


I'm all for fighting to the bitter end, if only for the extra alpha strike's worth of damage to my score. I hate it when an enemy goes and destroys the generator rather than fighting us, and wouldn't do it to someone else. I'd prefer taking a fun and more profitable loss than a gen rush win that barely gets the same income with the contract bonus tacked on.

[Scout Derek]

There was a 8-6 Man earlier I dropped with that kept trying to go for objectives. When their drop commander spoke to us, he gave us a long detailed explanation of how to attack. I simply agreed and went in.

We all died shortly afterwards, and got one gen. Nice. Another almost destroyed. Great.

Then that's when they started faltering. They began to push without waiting for everyone. And we all died as we trickled in like ******* pugs. That's when I got angry. I did at one point say go in and not wait for someone who was 500M out, but that was it.

Then after pushing in last, I moved to hide within the enemy's base and waited for them to push spawn. That's when one of the unitmates of the command caller called out my coordinates to the enemy. Griefing and assisting the enemy. Great. Probably should've told them that I was waiting for them to leave since we had jammer and radar, but nah, when they lose, they have to find a random player to put the blame on, it's human nature. I got upset, that I did, told him something nasty. But when the player said you can hate me it won't matter, I told him I didn't hate them, but their unit.

You don't dislike a player for what they do, but their unit, as they're responsible for that player, and all who play with them. They are the lead. to falter and begin to smite players not apart of their unit is wrong. To allow them to be rude and act like they achieved something when they didn't really is wrong. To continuously shout at a player to attack the Omega when they're in a medium mech 600+M out waiting for a enemy to leave their spawn to get the omega is wrong.

Bottom line of the story: I don't like it when Units act like they know what to do, but in the end it shows that they don't and begin to put blame on other players for it.

No disrespect to some within that unit, but I would suggest you guys that whom I'm speaking of need to learn how to coordinate better and actually wait for everyone to arrive instead of letting the guys in the back trickle in to die after the front line does. Cause a Orion-IIC ain't going to make it in time to a group that's pushing into base 800+M out, and then it pushes in and does absolutely nothing because the front line was too impatient.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Scout Derek, on 06 May 2017 - 10:51 AM, said:

Stuff

Another one of the reasons I dislike gen rush units. Most of the time their coordination is awful. Rather than pushing in as a group they will be spread out and focus firing is an absolute joke. Its not even hard to go in and gen rush properly if your team can focus fire. Alternatively you can actually focus down the enemies of that wave with like 12 splatdogs without even taking the time to stop walking and by the time you get to the gens they're all in the dropships.

My unit focuses on having good coordination and focus fire, we see someone who is trying to trade, we set up a firing line, wait for him to come out, and he gets an alpha from a full lance for trying to scratch the paint on one of us. When we see the enemy assault flank pushing in, we move into cover, setup a line, and take out their biggest people first while trying to not get instantly obliterated by about 10 SRM toting assaults at once.

[Commander A9]

Legitimate victory condition.

Good way to rack up wins.

For your team, AND your Faction.

[MischiefSC]

Not all teams are equal. Certainly not all players. You need to play to your team. I've dropped with over 30 different units (MischiefSC - Totally Not A Spy!) and can say that there's a lot of ways to go about it and all are not equal.

Losing focus by wave 3 happens. It's a struggle for every drop caller, be that stay on objectives, keeping grouped up, identifying rally points each wave or even just calling targets. Not all teams follow calls well. I know that KCom has a lot more disciplined comms than 99% of units and that helps a lot but that's not everyones style. You need to adapt to the group your with.

However players can always help with that by saying "what's our rally point after this wave? Regroup, not reinforce, right? Focus mechs, turrets or gens?" Be polite, follow the calls, however you want to make sure the drop caller knows if you're having a problem or things are going south.

Teamwork is a skill and it's not an easy one.

[Mcgral18]

I've Gen Rushed enough, over the past few years
We had 26 planets with our Tags, but fewer than 100 active members



I do not gen rush anymore, it's boring
I'm here to Shoot Robots

We've had three teams try to rush ours. We lost two of those

Lily from animove, on 06 May 2017 - 05:30 AM, said:

but the 400 matchscore and min 80 match score as well as accumulated matchscore requirements of the event simply make people focus on matchscore and matchscore comes formm damage and not finishing the objective. this is still since the beginning of non skirmish gamemodes the biggest flaw of matchscore. gen rushing grants low score and probably not even the min 80 for some of the challange requirements. So why would those not having much time focus on these tactics and missing out the events requirements?

For best matchscore: Don't die
Each robot you use divides your MS
So, 2 mechs=half, 4 mechs=1/4

My highest is 1845 MS, from a Laservomit robot of course

[KingCobra]

YAWN GEN RUSHING DEATHBALLS BORING REPETITVE GAME PLAY YAWN 5 YEARS NOW.

[justcallme A S H]

PGI should probably just change the back end code for all the hitboxes to even it up?

[MustrumRidcully]

So far it seemed to me that if the team is able to stick to the plan, Gen rushing is a very effective strategy and wins the battle.

It is not good for your K/D, if you care about that, it's not giving you a lot of C-Bills, and if you're as terrible as me, you'll not even make the 80 point match score every time. But at least you tasted victory, and if you're as terrible as me, that's rare enough.

In general, i would say that sticking to whatever plan is suggested is usually a better idea than no plan at all.

[Vxheous]

MustrumRidcully, on 08 May 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

So far it seemed to me that if the team is able to stick to the plan, Gen rushing is a very effective strategy and wins the battle.

It is not good for your K/D, if you care about that, it's not giving you a lot of C-Bills, and if you're as terrible as me, you'll not even make the 80 point match score every time. But at least you tasted victory, and if you're as terrible as me, that's rare enough.

In general, i would say that sticking to whatever plan is suggested is usually a better idea than no plan at all.

Here's the thing, gen-rushing (PvE style) won't actually get you better at this game, it just gets you a victory, and usually only against disorganized groups/semi-groups/pugs. Almost all half decent to exceptional groups that play FW on a regular basis know how to shut down a gen rush (PvE style) and shut it down fast. If you want to get better, learn how to dunk-style gen rush as opposed to the PvE style gen rush.

When I say PvE style gen rush, I'm referring to the lemming style avoid combat at all costs throw yourself at the objective x4 waves hoping that it's enough to take down all 3 O-gens + Omega. It's also the style of gen rush that low skill units are known to do (and sadly, most of them sit at roughly 1.0 W/L (50% win rate) or lower, which means they either win every game they play by gen rush, but lose every game they have to defend, or their gen-rush gets slapped down more often than not). The other gen rush (dunk style) is the one that good teams typically do to rack up fast wins: Go in, wreck your opponent's 1st wave 12-0 to 12-3/4, dunk the objectives while opponent is dropping 2nd wave, win. Those teams are also more than capable of stomping out 48 kill wins, but they're more concerned about getting points for events.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 08 May 2017 - 01:47 AM.