193 replies to this topic

[BourbonFaucet]

It's not necessarily that the 4N stalker is overpowered per se.

I don't do any better in my 4N than in my other stalkers, except in one game mode, community warfare. The long, mid to long range slugfests that eat ammo like popcorn and require a survivable, hardy 'mech make the 4N stalker perfect for the job as an all-rounder assault.

In the regular que? Yes, the 4N does well, but it doesn't seem overpowered. Clan 'mechs struggle a bit against it, but LRM boats can still pick it apart, and true to goodness brawlers smash it if they can take off one of the torsos first.

If anything, the stalker 4N only serves an example as to why weapon-specific quirks aren't such a great idea. They obviously encourage boating and alphas. We ought to have quirks that involve "weapon families", which I think is an idea either Joseph Mallan or Bishop Steiner suggested, but I can't remember. In the case of the Stalker 4N, maybe it would have "heavy energy" quirks, which affect LL, LPL, and PPC's.

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 10 April 2015 - 08:49 AM, said:

I'm not really into that sort of thing. Nerfing customization is no fun.

I personally enjoyed MW4's hardpoints system over current MWO system, and the MW2 and MW3 systems. There is something fundamentally wrong IMO, for a Stalker--a mech known for its mix of weapon systems--to boat 6 LLasers.

It is gonna keep biting PGI in the ass as long as people spam AC20/Gauss into machine gun slots, and LPLs in small laser slots.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 April 2015 - 09:35 AM.

[Bacl]

Hmm Blast from the past, I recall the '' 6PPCs STALKER OF DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1'' ( That took 2 full lunar cycles to cool down between alphas).



Seriously this again? Easy if the thing specialized in something that means it will lack somewhere, exploit that weakness.

[Bacl]

Apnu, on 10 April 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Its interesting how MWO, in this way, parallels the TT game. At least for me, energy build mechs were always worth more than ammo based mechs. Same too for MWO. We get more bang for our buck with energy weapons and supporting heat sinks than we do with ballistics and missiles with ammo.

It is like so now. I think it was last summer energy was only reliable as backup weapons, it was a AC/ UAC slug fest and any mechs that couldnt mount them had a huge disadvantage. Also the Poptarts golden era, before that it was the PPC and even further the LRM. Balance at its finest.

Hell during the first year of beta when they used the actual TT numbers and didnt buff the PPC, the game was the most balanced it ever was.

Edited by Bacl, 10 April 2015 - 09:39 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Alienized, on 10 April 2015 - 05:44 AM, said:

exactly they were desigend that way to be useful wherever they needed to be so you dont need to switch mechs for every environment. since we have to drop whatever map is given to us this would not be the worst thing to follow.
also where these 2 high energy slots are should not be a fix, just a limit.

TT has something that we here don't.

Arms that actually WORK!

[Apnu]

Bacl, on 10 April 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

It is like so now. I think it was last summer energy was only reliable as backup weapons, it was a AC/ UAC slug fest and any mechs that couldnt mount them had a huge disadvantage. Also the Poptarts golden era, before that it was the PPC and even further the LRM. Balance at its finest.

Hell during the first year of beta when they used the actual TT numbers and didnt buff the PPC, the game was the most balanced it ever was.

Its funny how things move around in the meta isn't it? Its like watching lemmings flock.

I've always held true to my holy trinity of Hunchbacks (4G, 4P, 4J). So I've always liked the AC20 (pre-quirk, post speed nerf even), the ML still is the most efficient weapon on paper in the game (1 ton, 5 damage, 4 heat) than any other weapon, get 6 of them and its a bad day for your enemy, and I think there's skills needed to use LRMs well. Anybody can take them and throw missiles in the dirt, but it takes skill to hit 1,000+ damage with 2xLRM10 in a match. I've done it twice, but I usually hit 600-800 damage in the 4J when I'm on my game.

I guess I'm saying I'm not a player attracted to the meta, in fact I sort of resent it. But I observe it all the same and give it a try. But in that observation, its entertaining to see players flocking to the meta, until some other player stands up and wrecks face with something that's against the meta, and then seeing everybody flock to that.

I wish we'd go back to TT weapon values. Screw it, and let's have true double heat sinks also. Yes players will find heat neutral mechs, so what? We did it on the TT and it was fine, so why not in MWO? The only thing we should add to the weapons is beam duration, projectile travel times and cool down.

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

TT has something that we here don't.

Arms that actually WORK!

TT also has:

[Apnu]

Bacl, on 10 April 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hmm Blast from the past, I recall the '' 6PPCs STALKER OF DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1'' ( That took 2 full lunar cycles to cool down between alphas).



Seriously this again? Easy if the thing specialized in something that means it will lack somewhere, exploit that weakness.

The 6PPC stalker never gave me a problem. Sure it could core me, and it did a couple of times. But it also taught me the value of cover. I got to the point of thinking "lunch!", in my HBK-4G when I saw one. Stay in cover, flank around till you get close, get in under 90m and destroy them. They couldn't fire back. Moving at 89KPH (STD 250 engine, mastered) it was easy to kill.

But, instead of 1.4 "double" heat sinks and ghost heat, they could have simply given a cone of fire to firing more than 2 PPCs. done, problem solved, no more 60 point alphas to one single location. No need to punish the whole game for a handful of cheese balls in Stalkers.

[Joseph Mallan]

Apnu, on 10 April 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

TT also has:

[Metus regem]

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

TT has something that we here don't.

Arms that actually WORK!

An Atlas that is something to be feared?

I say that as someone whom has used an Atlas to grab the leg of OPFOR Locust, then use that Locust as a club to kill another mech two rounds later, killing both mehcs with one melee action.

Edited by Metus regem, 10 April 2015 - 10:18 AM.

[Scout Derek]

It looks like it's ass is being handed to it.... hahaha

[Joseph Mallan]

Scout Derek, on 10 April 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

It looks like it's ass is being handed to it.... hahaha

IIRC that is General DeChavilier's last stand.

[Scout Derek]

Oh now I remember, I was like: "Hahaha.... wait, dammit..."

[Burktross]

Keez, on 09 April 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

With the thunderbolt its fair because the hit boxes are average. The stalker takes ct damage and throws it to the sides mean while he is doing 60 point alphas and not heating up a bit. It has no equal at the moment.

you want evidence? ok. Go play a cw match.

lol play a stalker and get back to us on how OP it is

It's infinitely easier to pilot a Madcat and do well in it than it is a Stalker.

[Khobai]

Quote

I like the quirks system. I understand why bad mechs need quirks but I don't see why mechs w great hit boxes are getting them (stalker, firestarter ect....).

I understand why mechs with great hit boxes are getting quirks.

What I dont understand is why those quirks have nothing to do with the stock loadouts. Quirks should reward you for running the stock loadout of the mech. Quirks should not reward you for running meta builds.

Quote

It's infinitely easier to pilot a Madcat and do well in it than it is a Stalker.

Both are overpowered though. Just because the Madcat is more overpowered doesnt make the Stalker fine. They both need to be beat down with the nerf stick.

When you continually see the same 5-6 mechs in CW, obviously something isnt balanced right.

Edited by Khobai, 10 April 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Techorse, on 10 April 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

It's not necessarily that the 4N stalker is overpowered per se.

I don't do any better in my 4N than in my other stalkers, except in one game mode, community warfare. The long, mid to long range slugfests that eat ammo like popcorn and require a survivable, hardy 'mech make the 4N stalker perfect for the job as an all-rounder assault.

In the regular que? Yes, the 4N does well, but it doesn't seem overpowered. Clan 'mechs struggle a bit against it, but LRM boats can still pick it apart, and true to goodness brawlers smash it if they can take off one of the torsos first.

If anything, the stalker 4N only serves an example as to why weapon-specific quirks aren't such a great idea. They obviously encourage boating and alphas. We ought to have quirks that involve "weapon families", which I think is an idea either Joseph Mallan or Bishop Steiner suggested, but I can't remember. In the case of the Stalker 4N, maybe it would have "heavy energy" quirks, which affect LL, LPL, and PPC's.

They could even do "linked heavy energy" quirks.

[Almond Brown]

Bacl, on 10 April 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

Hmm Blast from the past, I recall the '' 6PPCs STALKER OF DOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1'' ( That took 2 full lunar cycles to cool down between alphas).



Seriously this again? Easy if the thing specialized in something that means it will lack somewhere, exploit that weakness.

And what "weakness" would that be exactly. A 290 with lots of DHS's, a 32% Energy\Weapon specific Heat reductions, crazy CD buffs, More Range 500m -> 600m (sweet spot for battle) near max armor. Can run at 62kph tweaked and even carry AMS if desired.

What's not to like really. Just don't mash the LMB/RMB to much/ LOL!

Edited by Almond Brown, 10 April 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[sycocys]

Keez, on 09 April 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

With the thunderbolt its fair because the hit boxes are average. The stalker takes ct damage and throws it to the sides mean while he is doing 60 point alphas and not heating up a bit. It has no equal at the moment.

you want evidence? ok. Go play a cw match.

Sorry you get your mech shredded by better players mate. That's really what is happening, people playing the same mech over and over and getting reasonably to quite good at it - that's how you develop skill in a mech.

The 4N is solid, not really overpowered because most CW takes place in brawling range where there's many as good or better options. It's just a cheap to load up mech with enough armor and breaching speed to be a T1 assault. Overheats just fine with its wonderful 1.19 HR, has a bit of additional mostly useless range that only helps in a few spots to make clanners hide while the team takes position. Cores out as fast as any other assault mech when guys don't pee themselves and focus fire onto it.

Doesn't run endo or xl, just the mech, dhs and 6 LL. Fairly effective right out of the gate unmastered so its only real gate is the initial cost. That's why you see a lot of people run it more than anything else. Roughly 12m c-cills directly into a CW ready and capable mech without any messing around. Simple and effective.

[Khobai]

Quote

That's really what is happening, people playing the same mech over and over and getting reasonably to quite good at it - that's how you develop skill in a mech.

people play the same mech over and over because those mechs are better than the other mechs.

if all mechs were equal you would see a greater diversity of mechs being used

[CygnusX7]

Clan mechs considered tier 1 in CW? 4.
IS mechs considered tier 1 in CW? 1.

[Sorbic]

Keez, on 09 April 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

6 lg laser stalker is way op pgi pls nerf! The same quirks would be great on a bad mech but the stalker is not a bad mech. check the numbers the stalker is the number 1 cw mech right now.

12 mans that run all stalkers in cw fyi your not good you mechs are.

I like the quirks system. I understand why bad mechs need quirks but I don't see why mechs w great hit boxes are getting them (stalker, firestarter ect....).

Just because it can fight back doesn't mean it's op. Close the gap, kill it dead.

I think my favorite thing about clanners calling for nerfs on this long(ish) range mech is how they had said that their extra range was of no real advantage in CW because all of the fighting was up close. That is until we see an IS that can keep up from a distance.