51 replies to this topic

[Burktross]

bobobobobiy, on 12 April 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Quite honestly, I was bored on a Sunday night and I wanted to shitpost.

Forum etiquette at its best, gents.

[Deathlike]

The crits are generated for EACH pellet... assuming they all hit the same section (in most cases, it won't) or a mech that has all external armor removed (which doesn't happen often enough to matter).

To my flawed understanding..

The extra crit bonus is added to the base crit bonus, AND also applies the special modifier/multiplier to the weapon when it generates a crit.

In the case of LBX...

The base crit chance @ the first level is 25% (second level 14%, third level is 3%).

So it's now 39% (+14% crit bonus for the first level).

Note: Second level will be @ 22% (+8% second level bonus) and third level is @ 6% (+3% third level bonus)

The damage it will do is 2 times the normal damage (that is the multiplier) and will do 2 pts of damage.

Note: The second level has a multiplier of 4 (4 damage per pellet) and third level has a multiplier of 6 (6 damage per pellet).

This can actually be calculated given the parameters.

Source:
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/ - Oldie but still good.

Mcgral18, on 13 April 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

Then tell me the chance for all 10 pellets to get the 6% crit.

I don't know the answer (I suck at stats ) but I don't bother looking for triple crits. I just like giving LBX facehugs.

Edited by Deathlike, 13 April 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Then tell me the chance for all 10 pellets to get the 6% crit.

Assuming the 6% crit chance is accurate then if all 10 pellets hit the same location the chance to get at least one x3 crit would be 1 - (0.94)^10 or about 46%

But that above calculation is only for x3 crits. It doesnt include x1 or x2 crits.


If you include x1, x2, and x3 crits then the LB10X statistically crits about once for each pellet that hits internal structure. So if 10 pellets hit internal structure you should get ~10 crits on average.

Edited by Khobai, 13 April 2015 - 12:11 PM.

[Pjwned]

Mcgral18, on 13 April 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

Then tell me the chance for all 10 pellets to get the 6% crit.

You know what, I don't actually know after thinking about it and doing a little bit of basic statistics reading, so maybe you're right and I'm wrong.

[Deathlike]

Pjwned, on 13 April 2015 - 12:21 PM, said:

You know what, I don't actually know after thinking about it and doing a little bit of basic statistics reading, so maybe you're right and I'm wrong.

Math wins!



It's OK, I like other people doing math for me too.

[Big Tin Man]

To fix LBX:

1. Yes, it's a shotgun. But shotguns don't have a true linear cone of fire, they're more like a exponential curve cone of fire. Correct this for very tight spreads inside optimal weapon distance, it should hit like a normal AC under 100m, all on one mech component.
2. Up the damage per pellet slightly. 10% at a time max. Or significantly buff crit chance. Or both.
3. Ammo toggle: slug vs. lbx (must load different ammo types in mechlab though)
4. Slug rounds sent through lbx cannons need an accuracy penalty to keep AC's from being totally worthless, perhaps keep them in the same cone of fire. Slug rounds through a smooth bore are not as accurate as rounds fired through a rifled barrel. Should also look at keeping the heat the same as well, but this may be too difficult to code in.

In my mind, the single best thing to do is to get us the ammo toggle. Slugs to break down the armor early in the fight, LB rounds to shred internals at the end. Do that and the LBX would be worthwhile again.

[Weeny Machine]

The problem of the LB-X is that it still cannot switch modes. Therefore it cannot make the holes it needs to shred the internals.

[Xetelian]

The only time to use a LBX currently is if you have 4 of them on a direwolf or on a CN9 D because of quirks.

They are just weaker auto cannons but I still use them >_<

[Y E O N N E]

Big Tin Man, on 13 April 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

To fix LBX:

1. Yes, it's a shotgun. But shotguns don't have a true linear cone of fire, they're more like a exponential curve cone of fire. Correct this for very tight spreads inside optimal weapon distance, it should hit like a normal AC under 100m, all on one mech component.
2. Up the damage per pellet slightly. 10% at a time max. Or significantly buff crit chance. Or both.
3. Ammo toggle: slug vs. lbx (must load different ammo types in mechlab though)
4. Slug rounds sent through lbx cannons need an accuracy penalty to keep AC's from being totally worthless, perhaps keep them in the same cone of fire. Slug rounds through a smooth bore are not as accurate as rounds fired through a rifled barrel. Should also look at keeping the heat the same as well, but this may be too difficult to code in.

In my mind, the single best thing to do is to get us the ammo toggle. Slugs to break down the armor early in the fight, LB rounds to shred internals at the end. Do that and the LBX would be worthwhile again.

No. 4 depends entirely on the ammunition. The M1A2 Abrams uses a 120 mm smooth-bore gun with fin-stabilized rounds, and it is very accurate. I would rather they consider dropping the RoF (3 seconds vs. 2.5, perhaps?) for solid shot rather than give it a cone of fire.

Still, I think the better solution are ammunition types for ACs that extend range, allow you to carry more ammo per ton, add fractional damage to structure through armor, and/or are simply more effective against armor. You take an A/C when you want to specialize, and take an LB when you want a generalist fighter.

[LordNothing]

just introduce scatter reduction modules/quirks (also for things like srms).

[Big Tin Man]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 April 2015 - 01:37 PM, said:

No. 4 depends entirely on the ammunition. The M1A2 Abrams uses a 120 mm smooth-bore gun with fin-stabilized rounds, and it is very accurate. I would rather they consider dropping the RoF (3 seconds vs. 2.5, perhaps?) for solid shot rather than give it a cone of fire.

Still, I think the better solution are ammunition types for ACs that extend range, allow you to carry more ammo per ton, add fractional damage to structure through armor, and/or are simply more effective against armor. You take an A/C when you want to specialize, and take an LB when you want a generalist fighter.

There needs to be a balance the PGI can actually implement. The LBX has better range, less heat, less tonnage, faster recycle time, and less critical space. Having perfect aim as well as switchable ammo would completely kill AC's in every way imaginable.

Perhaps less ammo per ton? The complete reworking of ammo you suggested may be too complex to actually implement (or for pugs to understand)

[Apnu]

LBs should have a chance to crit outside the armor per pellet. All those little pellets finding flaws in the armor plating and getting through. Make is something small like 1% per pellet. Spew a LB10 and hit with say 8 pellets and have a 8% chance of crit.

Do that and they'll be used all the time. Especially the clan LB20s.
Sure some will yell "RNG, I hate RNG, no skill! Go die!" But they'll get over it.