45 replies to this topic

[Astarot]

Right I looked into a anti-mech mine delivery vehicle. One thing that popped up was the Thunder LRM, however, it didn't start to carry anti-mech mines till 3057.

However the base rule of the mines was this: The point of mines match the points of the LRM, if it a 5 point launcher, then it will be a five point mine field.

Also Thunderhead LRM only came in one ton ammo version, there was no half-ton ammo versions.

Edited by Astarot, 18 April 2015 - 06:04 AM.

[Telmasa]

To clarify my earlier opinion: I'd be fine with seeing this in a PV:E game mode. In competitive PvP, absolutely NOT.

[HUNTERS MOON]

No because a mine is a terrible thing to waste........mc on.

[DaynarFaol]

I would love to see them in CW period. It is Community WARFARE folks. Getting more tactical options would be fun.

Again would be one way to stop Zerg Rushes. Deploy a field of Vibrobombs set for light mechs, any light mech mind; near the gates?

Would require a change in tactics. And LRMs and SRMS should be able to be used to clear a field. Ditto Arty and Air.

[Strum Wealh]

Astarot, on 18 April 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

That not what I said, what I said was that I scanned through the books, and the only rules I can find for PLACING mines are either A tied to a non-mech based unit IE mainly infantry, or are already preplaced on the map by said person before the match even starts. I did NOT say there was no such thing as anti-mech mines.

however, I can look again with the books I do have. Maybe I over looked something.

"Thunder" Arrow Missiles (aka "FASCAM ('Field Artillery Scatterable Mines' or 'Family of Scatterable Mines') Arrow Missiles") can be launched from 'Mech-mounted Arrow IV launchers (such as found on the CPLT-C3 Catapult) & were developed and deployed by the Capellan Confederation in 3051.
(See page 357 of Tactical Operations.)

Thunder/FASCAM LRMs are fired from standard LRM launchers, are used by the Clans, and are rediscovered by the Inner Sphere (specifically, the Federated Commonwealth) in 3052.
(See pages 372-373 of Tactical Operations.)

Tactical Operations, on pages 324 & 325, states that BattleMechs may employ Vehicular Mine Dispensers (which have been continuously available since the pre-spaceflight era; Battle Armor Mind Dispensers were developed by the Capellans in 3050).
The Dark Age-era Vandal B is one example of a 'Mech that carries a Vehicular Mine Dispenser.

FASCAM could also be implemented as a separate consumable that serves as an alternative to the conventional Air Strike & Artillery Strike consumables (as "Thunder Bombs" and "Thunder Shells", respectively).

With regard to countermeasures, sensing minefields is one of Beagle's abilities (Tactical Operations, pg. 99), and Mine Clearance Missiles are introduced by the FedCom in 3069 (Tactical Operations, pg. 370).

[Wintersdark]

Strum Wealh, on 19 April 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

"Thunder" Arrow Missiles (aka "FASCAM ('Field Artillery Scatterable Mines' or 'Family of Scatterable Mines') Arrow Missiles") can be launched from 'Mech-mounted Arrow IV launchers (such as found on the CPLT-C3 Catapult) & were developed and deployed by the Capellan Confederation in 3051.
(See page 357 of Tactical Operations.)

Thunder/FASCAM LRMs are fired from standard LRM launchers, are used by the Clans, and are rediscovered by the Inner Sphere (specifically, the Federated Commonwealth) in 3052.
(See pages 372-373 of Tactical Operations.)

Tactical Operations, on pages 324 & 325, states that BattleMechs may employ Vehicular Mine Dispensers (which have been continuously available since the pre-spaceflight era; Battle Armor Mind Dispensers were developed by the Capellans in 3050).
The Dark Age-era Vandal B is one example of a 'Mech that carries a Vehicular Mine Dispenser.

FASCAM could also be implemented as a separate consumable that serves as an alternative to the conventional Air Strike & Artillery Strike consumables (as "Thunder Bombs" and "Thunder Shells", respectively).

With regard to countermeasures, sensing minefields is one of Beagle's abilities (Tactical Operations, pg. 99), and Mine Clearance Missiles are introduced by the FedCom in 3069 (Tactical Operations, pg. 370).

Active probes detect, have them be slightly visible as well, and allow normal weapons fire to detonate them.

It'd be absolutely awesome if it shared a consumable group with arty and air.

Team strategies would become more complex - set up mine fields in positions where you're vulnerable to flanking, etc.

Have them do comparable, maybe slightly higher damage to mechs and arty and air, as they'd have inherent counters (visible, BAP detection, destroyable by weapon fire); taking them means less arty and air. Give them a very short range from the deploying mech, so you can't "throw" mines across the map.

It'd add a lot to the game strategically, and reduce arty/air spam.

Even if they're easily detected and dealt with, that would slow progress through the area affected. All in all, good stuff.

Edited by Wintersdark, 19 April 2015 - 01:08 PM.

[Kissamies]

I agree with Daynar. Mines would be great in CW. It would be best if the minefields could be set before battle somehow, and that would ideally require some sort of new UI mechanic that may be too much work to implement.

[DaynarFaol]

I figure the idea would be that if you use the "Mine" comsumable then what you are real doing game-wise is just "activating" an already set minefield.

In the lore there were a number of times you could walk a friendly mech through a field then have it turned on behind them. A.k.a Command Activated or command detonated mines.

[Erasmos]

I've always wanted to see this, and think it would add a lot of excitement and strategy to the game.

They would need to be strong enough to leg a scout, but not OP. In addition, it would need to be possible to see them in advance, (but not "easy.")

For example, mines could be visible in thermal mode.

Of course, they could also be shot, (resulting in hilarity when someone snipes the mines as they see an enemy placing them.)

And it would provide a fresh reason to care about JJ's too, (especially for scouts dropping a mine to cover their escape.)

I'm in. o7

Edited by Colonel Tonberry, 19 May 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

yes. and how about placing a small turret on the ground ?

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Some months ago PGI had discussed the addition of 'deployable' elements, elements like sensors, probes, or some form of weapon system.

- Little has been mentioned since then, even Town hall talks reveal 'nothing at the moment' in this area.

With reference to CW and units having the ability to 'beef up' key locations they capture, this was also mentioned by PGI numerous times. But also needs the 'Resources' element of CW to be fully built out, so units can 'purchase' add-on's like upgrading location weapons systems, adding more, defensive barricades and structures, and possibly 'obstacles or minefields'.

As some have stated with references, in the 3050 - 3051 timeline, there are systems that could be used to deliver or place mines on a map.
- Currently PGI does not have elements that can be 'spawned' and remain 'in place and active' for long periods in a match. UAV's are one item, but they are very limited in there 'on map time' and must have a 'Mech present in the location to deploy.
(not forgetting that new HUD objects and map elements may need to be designed to indicate to Friendlies that a 'Minefield' is present)
- The Arrow IV weapon system does have mine capabilities, but issues with critical slot sharing have hampered PGI in deploying this system. (available long before 3050 timeline, and the Clans even bring it back with them.)
- As well as issues with a long range sighting systems for beyond LOS deployment, even with TAG assistance from another 'Mech.

Mines do not need to be 'hidden' to be effective, they are used to hinder and channel enemy movement through locations and must be 'under observation and fire' to be effective.
- Simply slowing or directing the enemies movement may be all the tactical element required. If you can provide counter fire at the Enemy while that are disoriented or paused with a minefield, you've already won that part of the battle.
(placing a minefield that the Enemy can quickly breach, unobserved, serves little purpose.)

Mines should be effective in slowing to stopping light 'Mech's from passing through it's 'area of influence'. They need to be strong enough to deter movement by scout elements and cause pause to medium elements knowing just what they are getting into. (weigh the options, knowing they will suffer leg damage, for lights the possibly of a destroyed leg, but tactically required 'at that time'.)
- If the minefield was 'doubled up' with multi placed deployments, even Heavies or Assaults may want to 'rethink their current direction of movement'. But for that, PGI would need a new or specific class of radius (splash) damage profile just for mines. Something they have had some difficulty with in the past.

Just some thoughts,
9erRed

[Mazzyplz]

i think the idea is pretty terrible.

if the maps were bigger then maybe you can afford to make patches of landmines, but as it is right now? with these maps landmines vs mechs is a bad idea. they would provide too much area control

this would make the game even slower and more wallhugging and camping, which people really don't want into the game, they want to move fast with their fast mech

the maps aren't big enough for it

[Vellron2005]

I support the idea of placing mines as consumeable items.

They could do this as multiple types of consumables:

1) Classic dug-in mines
2) Pop-up mines, that begin on the ground, but when a mech approaches, jump up to chest-level and go off, damaging more than just legs.
3) EMP mine that shuts a mech down when it goes off for an amount of time equal to heat overload.
4) Non-explosive blocade drop (drop those concrete caltrops on a specific location to restrict movement - they allready have those graphic elements on many CW maps)
5) Narc Mine - You step in it, your narc-ed.
6) Seismic mine - Does damage to legs, but more importantly, declares to everyone on the map that it has been activated, even to those without seismic sensor. (Used as a gate/passage alarm)
7) Fake smoke - drop a smoke flare identical to air strike smoke, and let the enemy think they must avoid getting artillery to the face. (Costs 10.000 Cbills)

All mines should be somewhat visible, and destrucatable, but not very obvious. Destructability with all weapons.

Cost 40K as with other consumables. Damage as air and arty.

Resoult of this.. more TACTICS and IMMERSION.

Edited by Vellron2005, 21 May 2015 - 04:43 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Mazzyplz, on 20 May 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

i think the idea is pretty terrible.

if the maps were bigger then maybe you can afford to make patches of landmines, but as it is right now? with these maps landmines vs mechs is a bad idea. they would provide too much area control

this would make the game even slower and more wallhugging and camping, which people really don't want into the game, they want to move fast with their fast mech

the maps aren't big enough for it

If you wanna move fast, then play the "Arcade mode"..errrr... I mean PUG drops..

CW is just what the name stands for.. COMMUNITY WARFARE... and WARFARE is not fast.. its dirty, slow, trenchy, and deadly.

[Mazzyplz]

Vellron2005, on 21 May 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

If you wanna move fast, then play the "Arcade mode"..errrr... I mean PUG drops..

CW is just what the name stands for.. COMMUNITY WARFARE... and WARFARE is not fast.. its dirty, slow, trenchy, and deadly.

so you're going to make the mines for community warfare only?

how does that work mmm?

what does your comment even have to do with anything? nothing.

[Vetal]

Mines should be added, just after the arrow4 system.

[The Shredder]

It would make CW a LOT more exciting.

[YouCallThisClean]

Mines are a big part of modern warfare. To have them missing from MW is kind of silly. It will not spoil the fun if the damage of a single mine of ... digestable.

Liek a LRM boat I would personally like a mine boat that can block enemies on short notice.

The real military has those in spades, BTW, using dedicated artillery.

[Beaching Betty]

KEK!

[Budoman]

This seems like an easy thing to add as a consumable and close to what is already in the Battletech universe.

I don't know what is in the current version of the tabletop game but in the original they vibration based mines.

The player using these had to select what tonnage to set these for. If a mech with a lower tonnage walked over the mine it didn't go off. If a mech that was over tonnage started to walk toward one, it would go off early before the mech got to it. I can completely see these being used like this and not being OP. Airstrike and Artillery are still more useful in many senses.