17 replies to this topic

[Ch_R0me]

So... You are asking, why I'm writing this?
Let me tell the story about it.

I am a enthusiast of the big walking machines. With few powerful cannons, and those with "lots of guns".

I've once played MechWarriors (4, mostly), EarthSiege, StarSiege, MechCommander, MissionForce: CyberStorm... Even I've played Heavy Gear 2, but all of this is irrevelant now.

For now, I'm interested in Community Warfare development. I can assume there are few threads about implementation of space battles in MwO, like in AeroTech.

PGI, I hope you got some plans for it?

If so, it would be great, because I'm a big fan of the space battles, commanding ships in fleet, coordinating space<->planet warfare operations...

And if you're really going to do so, a word of advice: please don't mess it.
I know you're got a bad press and trying to recover from it, but please take this advice into your heart. You'll not regret it.

PS: I'm not trolling you, PGI. I'm telling this honestly.

PPS: And about "failed mechwarrior": I've got only less than 0.25 on my K/D ratio. Not cool :/

PPPS: I've wanted to post this in General Section, but I see here is more applicable, right?

PPPPS: And thanks for reading this wall of text.

[GenAce2010]

ManganMan, on 16 April 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

So... You are asking, why I'm writing this?
Let me tell the story about it.

I am a enthusiast of the big walking machines. With few powerful cannons, and those with &quot;lots of guns&quot;.

I've once played MechWarriors (4, mostly), EarthSiege, StarSiege, MechCommander, MissionForce: CyberStorm... Even I've played Heavy Gear 2, but all of this is irrevelant now.

For now, I'm interested in Community Warfare development. I can assume there are few threads about implementation of space battles in MwO, like in AeroTech.

PGI, I hope you got some plans for it?

If so, it would be great, because I'm a big fan of the space battles, commanding ships in fleet, coordinating space&lt;-&gt;planet warfare operations...

And if you're really going to do so, a word of advice: please don't mess it.
I know you're got a bad press and trying to recover from it, but please take this advice into your heart. You'll not regret it.

PS: I'm not trolling you, PGI. I'm telling this honestly.

PPS: And about &quot;failed mechwarrior&quot;: I've got only less than 0.25 on my K/D ratio. Not cool :/

PPPS: I've wanted to post this in General Section, but I see here is more applicable, right?

PPPPS: And thanks for reading this wall of text.

With the current game engine it's just not feasible. What you are talking about is open world akin to EVE/Dust514 and Planet side 1/2. I'm sorry to burst your bubble .

[Lightfoot]

Someday MWO will get there. Maybe not like EVE with 30000 players running around, but space battles during the dropship orbital phase could be really cool. Already have the joystick to ace that too.

[Koniving]

And after much deliberation about how they could link it to the upcoming CW on MWO and everything else....

Talk about Star Citizen came up, and all the money being thrown at it. "Lets copy that idea instead."
And so Transverse came up. After all, there could be aliens in it.


And so that idea got jettisoned.

[Johnny Z]

ManganMan, on 16 April 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

So... You are asking, why I'm writing this?
Let me tell the story about it.

I am a enthusiast of the big walking machines. With few powerful cannons, and those with "lots of guns".

I've once played MechWarriors (4, mostly), EarthSiege, StarSiege, MechCommander, MissionForce: CyberStorm... Even I've played Heavy Gear 2, but all of this is irrevelant now.

For now, I'm interested in Community Warfare development. I can assume there are few threads about implementation of space battles in MwO, like in AeroTech.

PGI, I hope you got some plans for it?

If so, it would be great, because I'm a big fan of the space battles, commanding ships in fleet, coordinating space<->planet warfare operations...

And if you're really going to do so, a word of advice: please don't mess it.
I know you're got a bad press and trying to recover from it, but please take this advice into your heart. You'll not regret it.

PS: I'm not trolling you, PGI. I'm telling this honestly.

PPS: And about "failed mechwarrior": I've got only less than 0.25 on my K/D ratio. Not cool :/

PPPS: I've wanted to post this in General Section, but I see here is more applicable, right?

PPPPS: And thanks for reading this wall of text.

Space battles would be great.

About the bad press comment a few trolls from other games doesnt make for bad press.

Yes I hope if they add space battles they get it right also. The mech combat is maybe the best combat online so lets hope they can match that or even better if they included 1st person capital ships with ai crew. Would be awsome.

[Nightmare1]

I don't think that space combat is within the scope of this game.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a space map. In the books, it wasn't uncommon for Mechs to do battle on the hulls of DropShips/Warships. Let's have an HPG style map that's an actual spaceship! Let the temperature be extremely cold and let the gravity be negligible, the end result being that you wouldn't overheat easily and using JJs would send you hurtling off into space. The ship superstructure and gun turrets could serve as cover.

That would be kinda wild.

The only problem would be LRMs and Streaks. Technically, they wouldn't be able to home on their targets while in space, but I doubt that it would be particularly easy to change their behavior on a single map without breaking them for all maps.

[Void Angel]

Large spaceships have gravity decks.

[Koniving]

On Steam there's an MWO esque space combat game called Fractured Space, Steam's got a free preview.

That said... If PGI does anything of the sort, my personal hope is that it is related to MWO in some way.
Something like a sister game. Like Aerotech, Battletroops, Urbantech, etc. are to Battletech.

Though I know that requires licenses.. (strangely so did Transverse. Why no original IP?)

[990Dreams]

I personally think aerospace should go on the backburner until we get more things like factories, resources, something to make planetary conquest less mindless.

[Astarot]

Nightmare1, on 16 April 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

I don't think that space combat is within the scope of this game.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a space map. In the books, it wasn't uncommon for Mechs to do battle on the hulls of DropShips/Warships. Let's have an HPG style map that's an actual spaceship! Let the temperature be extremely cold and let the gravity be negligible, the end result being that you wouldn't overheat easily and using JJs would send you hurtling off into space. The ship superstructure and gun turrets could serve as cover.

That would be kinda wild.

The only problem would be LRMs and Streaks. Technically, they wouldn't be able to home on their targets while in space, but I doubt that it would be particularly easy to change their behavior on a single map without breaking them for all maps.

A, space is a vacum, so infact, it would be a perfect insulator, thus in theory the temperature should be through the roof as all of your heat sinks take a debuff on reducing your heat levels, because your heatsinks will have to convert atomic energy(Heat, or hot things) into thermal energy(A wave length on the energy spectrum) which is really hard to do.

[Ch_R0me]

Well, I've thinked about instanced battles as on ground, like in the game Nexus: The Jupiter Incident (but I'll pass something like Dreadnought / Fractured Space battles).

Astarot, on 16 April 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

A, space is a vacum, so infact, it would be a perfect insulator, thus in theory the temperature should be through the roof as all of your heat sinks take a debuff on reducing your heat levels, because your heatsinks will have to convert atomic energy(Heat, or hot things) into thermal energy(A wave length on the energy spectrum) which is really hard to do.

Active heat engine or pump will be required for this...

Koniving, on 16 April 2015 - 03:34 PM, said:

On Steam there's an MWO esque space combat game called Fractured Space, Steam's got a free preview.

That said... If PGI does anything of the sort, my personal hope is that it is related to MWO in some way.
Something like a sister game.

Fractured Space is free to take for "yourself as long as Steam will allow as with each bought game", not a simple preview

About a sister game... Two games in one server would make a trick (it works somehow with EVE Online and Dust 514).

Nightmare1, on 16 April 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

I don't think that space combat is within the scope of this game.

That being said, I wouldn't mind seeing a space map. In the books, it wasn't uncommon for Mechs to do battle on the hulls of DropShips/Warships. Let's have an HPG style map that's an actual spaceship! Let the temperature be extremely cold and let the gravity be negligible, the end result being that you wouldn't overheat easily and using JJs would send you hurtling off into space. The ship superstructure and gun turrets could serve as cover.

That would be kinda wild.

The only problem would be LRMs and Streaks. Technically, they wouldn't be able to home on their targets while in space, but I doubt that it would be particularly easy to change their behavior on a single map without breaking them for all maps.

A true space map? Why not

And about LRM's and Streaks... There are Naval LRMs for targeting WarShips, DropShips and Fighters. I don't see a problem, at least as a BattleTech player

[Astarot]

ManganMan, on 17 April 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Active heat engine or pump will be required for this...

Active heat engine or pump for what? To constantly pump your hot coolant out into space? Battles will have to be mighty short if you are pumping all your coolant out of your mech. I can see it now.

"Warning, 2 minutes till engine seizure." Fire one large laser "Warning 30 seconds till engine seizure."

[Ch_R0me]

Astarot, on 17 April 2015 - 06:28 AM, said:

Active heat engine or pump for what? To constantly pump your hot coolant out into space? Battles will have to be mighty short if you are pumping all your coolant out of your mech. I can see it now.

"Warning, 2 minutes till engine seizure." Fire one large laser "Warning 30 seconds till engine seizure."

Space is not entirely empty. It's ambient temperature will be a few kelvins only, and contains a few particles, which can store energy. In ISS station there is a ammonia circulation with active radiators (yep, that system was out of order few months ago) -> http://science.nasa....001/ast21mar_1/

Or we could use thermionic generators - turn excessive heat into the electricity, and then, the excess of energy can be sent into space by using infrared heaters, acting as a cooler -> http://physicsworld....ectly-from-heat

[GenAce2010]

ManganMan, on 17 April 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Space is not entirely empty. It's ambient temperature will be a few kelvins only, and contains a few particles, which can store energy. In ISS station there is a ammonia circulation with active radiators (yep, that system was out of order few months ago) -> http://science.nasa....001/ast21mar_1/

Or we could use thermionic generators - turn excessive heat into the electricity, and then, the excess of energy can be sent into space by using infrared heaters, acting as a cooler -> http://physicsworld....ectly-from-heat

BRILLIANT! I SAY BRILLIANT MAN!

[Astarot]

ManganMan, on 17 April 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

Space is not entirely empty. It's ambient temperature will be a few kelvins only, and contains a few particles, which can store energy. In ISS station there is a ammonia circulation with active radiators (yep, that system was out of order few months ago) -> http://science.nasa....001/ast21mar_1/

Or we could use thermionic generators - turn excessive heat into the electricity, and then, the excess of energy can be sent into space by using infrared heaters, acting as a cooler -> http://physicsworld....ectly-from-heat

Okay, first the link, that a great introduction on how a spacestation stays cool, but do you understand why that is? Space is a almost perfect vacum, besides the dirt, metal and ectra. But anyways the energy that transfer through space isn't atomic energy, it thermal energy, when the thermal energy makes contact with the space energy, it excites the atoms and create atomic energy, which then of course makes that heat, which is why oneside of the station is so hot and the otherside is very cold because it in a "shadow" and it doesn't come in contact with the thermal energy. When a system is generating atomic energy on it own, it doesn't easily transfer into thermal energy. Which is why people can hide their heat signature with mud, which of course ends up trapping that energy to their body, and causing to heat up. Thus heat stroke, so what will happen is that your mech will generate farm more amount of atomic energy then that can be transferred into thermal energy. Resulting in your heat being much harder to get rid of, references are here:

http://theory.uwinni...ech/node79.html
http://www.diva-port.../FULLTEXT01.pdf


Also hot flows to cold through the method of atoms colliding with atoms which when a faster moving atom collides into a slower moving atom, it transfer some if energy into the slower moving atom, which is why hot always flows to colder. Well in a vacuum which is most of space is a vacuum. Nearest to the largest perfect physical vacuum known to man in fact.


Thus the only way heat can be transferred through space is as thermal radiation. If atomic heat to thermal radiation happen quickly, then the planet would be a very cold place about now.

Edited by Astarot, 17 April 2015 - 09:26 AM.

[Ch_R0me]

Astarot, on 17 April 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Okay, first the link, that a great introduction on how a spacestation stays cool, but do you understand why that is? Space is a almost perfect vacum, besides the dirt, metal and ectra. But anyways the energy that transfer through space isn't atomic energy, it thermal energy, when the thermal energy makes contact with the space energy, it excites the atoms and create atomic energy, which then of course makes that heat, which is why oneside of the station is so hot and the otherside is very cold because it in a "shadow" and it doesn't come in contact with the thermal energy. When a system is generating atomic energy on it own, it doesn't easily transfer into thermal energy. Which is why people can hide their heat signature with mud, which of course ends up trapping that energy to their body, and causing to heat up. Thus heat stroke, so what will happen is that your mech will generate farm more amount of atomic energy then that can be transferred into thermal energy. Resulting in your heat being much harder to get rid of, references are here:

http://theory.uwinni...ech/node79.html
http://www.diva-port.../FULLTEXT01.pdf


Also hot flows to cold through the method of atoms colliding with atoms which when a faster moving atom collides into a slower moving atom, it transfer some if energy into the slower moving atom, which is why hot always flows to colder. Well in a vacuum which is most of space is a vacuum. Nearest to the largest perfect physical vacuum known to man in fact.


Thus the only way heat can be transferred through space is as thermal radiation. If atomic heat to thermal radiation happen quickly, then the planet would be a very cold place about now.

So many non-compliant with each other data on the Internet... Thanks for correction. Damn it, I can't give even a realistic idea...

So - then the only option is a infrared emitter.

Edited by ManganMan, 17 April 2015 - 09:43 AM.

[GenAce2010]

Thanks you two for the space education! I learned something today!

[Astarot]

ManganMan, on 17 April 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

So many non-compliant with each other data on the Internet... Thanks for correction. Damn it, I can't give even a realistic idea...

So - then the only option is a infrared emitter.

I'm not saying it can't be done, all I'm saying is that most likely what will happen, or should happen, is that heat sinks would operate at less the optimal compacity, making is that people heat up faster and cool down slower, a map, that basically reward those that have a naturally cold mech.