51 replies to this topic

[Roadbuster]

Sandersson Jankins, on 18 April 2015 - 02:25 AM, said:

Agreed, with the addition of proper documentation and guides implemented IN-GAME for new players. The "new player experience" is without a doubt the most important thing to me in this game.

Honestly, I don't know how ELO works for new players, but if the matches of a new player go somewhat like some of my solo queue matches in a new mech this weekend...
I'd not be surprised if people would quit playing after getting stomped again and again because they don't know the basics and get matched against high ELO players with fully leveled fotm mechs.
Such an experience is very discouraging, especially if you're new to the game. And no CB reward, free mech, gift or event will change anything about this.

[Elizander]

Frostiken, on 17 April 2015 - 11:37 PM, said:

I worded that poorly, but like it or not 'hooks' in gameplay are here to stay. It's why so many games have little progression systems and such to keep track of - it keeps people playing and gives them goals to play towards. Sorry but 'playing for the sake of playing' no longer cuts it, and it hasn't cut it for going on eight years now. If MWO doesn't adapt it's going to get edged out by other games that DO.

I fully agree with this and it applies to CW as well. The current goal right now is to buy shiny mechs and then buy even more shiny mechs. There are people like us who enjoy doing this simple thing, but looking at it from at outsider perspective then it turns out to be a car collection game. CW is like the border war between North and South Korea where the soldiers sneak in at night and push the border marker a few meters in the other direction now and then to claim their small victory.

There is something to log in each day but it's only 2x XP which isn't as appealing when people already master their mechs. There are a lot of F2P things that can be done to give players more incentives to play and log in each day and it's already out there and can be innovated upon as needed. Right now, MWO is pretty much focused on hardcore mode and I'm afraid that the game will be walled in with hardcoreness that casual masses will never be able to climb over it for continued and sustained growth.

Roadbuster, on 20 April 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't know how ELO works for new players, but if the matches of a new player go somewhat like some of my solo queue matches in a new mech this weekend...
I'd not be surprised if people would quit playing after getting stomped again and again because they don't know the basics and get matched against high ELO players with fully leveled fotm mechs.
Such an experience is very discouraging, especially if you're new to the game. And no CB reward, free mech, gift or event will change anything about this.

New players get put in with people who have fully kitted out elite mechs all the time. This is my main account and I have made 4 others and finished my cadet bonuses on all of them and even more. The reason why it's easier for veterans to win on a new account is that the game considers your ELO crap so it puts you in with better players most of the time. So a veteran + cadet account can have like a +500 or more ELO advantage without the matchmaker knowing.

Edited by Elizander, 20 April 2015 - 01:01 AM.

[Arkbird_]

Torgun, on 18 April 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

OT: I don't really think PGI cares about attracting new players at this point, to be honest I'm not even sure they're really serious about going on Steam. But if they do it's most likely to just get some fresh noobs to make the player count a bit higher for all the 25 games when they get the cadet bonus and then quit because **** is way too grindy. This game is almost entirely funded by whales these days (the store prices have pretty much made it so) and as such all prices and designs will be based on what will make them keep tossing money at PGI. Nothing is ever going to change about that.

Steam release will cause an ENORMOUS population spike. Always does for new games released on it. That part is inevitable. It's properly utilizing it to retain new players that is the problem. If the game is not in prime condition it will be a horrible blown opportunity to go big (and stay big).

IMO this game should not be released on steam for at least another year. I hear PGI is thinking end of this summer or close to that when the 4v4 community warfare mode is out? Big no no for me. Game needs good tutorials and a good PvE environment for new players to practice (and grind quickly) in before getting stomped constantly by those who already have fully maxed out mechs. The multiplayer aspect should be the exciting part and a PvE environment that is repetitive but very rewarding for those who want to grind. You always want to separate the grind from the exciting bits (the 12 v 12's and CW) otherwise you get many people who perceive the entire game as a grind. To simplify, PvE to grind, multiplayer for the fun = happy community.

I'm going to pretend the steam playerbase is not going to scoff and mock the prices of MW:O but I will at least mention that it will probably be a problem. Consistent sales are probably the only way to alleviate this problem short of flat out dropping the prices and angering the current player base. So in short, SALES on goods will definitely be a key factor in keeping steam players. I don't see most of them shelling out 60$ for a mechpack when they won't even spend that much for a full game. (tend to expect games to be on sale AT RELEASE for 45$)

Many of the much needed items are already in development. UI 3.0 will be important, glad it will be out soon as clarity always helps new players (hoping it is a MUCH bigger step than 2.0 was compared to 1 and some consider it almost a step back) . A revamped pilot tree that varies the skills for specific chassis' (as mentioned in town hall) had better be out before or shortly after steam! That will give a good progression system that can keep players playing if done right, especially if branched out to more than just the current 3 tiers that can be grinded out in a week and you are done. Some long term skills would be nice. I'd settle for simply putting the current mech quirks in that last skill tree rather than giving them out for free if that's what it takes to give players long term goals.

And last but not least rewards 3.0 could make or break the steam release. Players won't play without content, and if they can't afford any of it because they are horribad at the game and the rewards system punishes them too harshly for it they won't stick around long. I'm not going to bother with the math as it's all subjective and very dependent on too many factors but put simply if a player gets his first mech with the cadet bonus and decides it sucks and the game sucks that player could quit simply because they chose the wrong mech and never got the opportunity to buy another one that fit their playstyle better. Definitely a very subjective subject but seriously there needs to be a better starting point than "here's 10ish million cbills and if you mess up at the start you are out of luck til you grind more".

OP does have a great point on the cbill boost for daily check-ins. Win of the day for XP does very little, it needs to have cbill bonus attached as well. Pretty effective in other games to get players to play at least a little every day and never go inactive. (kept me playing league of legends, that daily earnings boost for a quick coop game a day is what got me playing the game long term)

[Joseph Mallan]

Khobai, on 18 April 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

Comparing a bad game to an even worse game to make the bad game look more favorable still doesnt make the bad game into a good game.

If you are not having fun playing the game, more money per match will not make it a fun game. Hate to break it to you.

[Jetfire]

Frostiken, on 17 April 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

1) Add in daily log-in incentives. A major challenge for F2P games is just getting people to log in to begin with. They have all these other games to play, why play this one? A simple C-Bill 'paycheck' for logging in once every 24 hours would be nice. Roughly around 100k if you're a F2P player, perhaps 200k if you have a boost active. Not only does this get people to log in, but underperforming players can get a decent C-Bill income to upgrade their ****** mechs.

I agree there should be a daily Mission Reward system. Say play any 5 matches, play 3 matches of each type and repeatable for each weight class. Reward each with 200k Cbills. Could even add a weekly challenge with a small MC reward, say 50 MC for completing 5 days worth of missions.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you are not having fun playing the game, more money per match will not make it a fun game. Hate to break it to you.

I dont need more money. I have half a billion cbills lolz.

But when this game goes up on steam new players are not gonna like the leveling system or low cbill earnings

[Ragtag soldier]

the problems with the game as a whole, at least how i see it is actually:

1:the game isn't balanced to be fun to play. most maps, and point in fact the accepted "meta" largely revolves around either ineffective ledgehumping until one side runs out of patience or or one group has enough morons to get chewed apart piecemeal, or mobbing up into a huge group and trying to crash into the enemy before they do the same. one is slow and unfun, the other is hectic and unfun. players are less likely to pay into a game they don't feel like they'll be playing often enough, and new players aren't going to want to suffer the learning curve in a game where a mistake means you cost your team a man, the advantage and most times the match before you even knew what you might have done wrong.

2: the game encourage blaming the other players if something goes wrong. you don't get to select your 'mech after making a group or finding out what map you're on. this means a player can either make a build focused on lone wolf tactics and demands the group supports them or risks being useless to the rest of the team because either they're not able to operate effectively with their teammates and/or the map restricts them too much. this leads to players trying to win adopting a "why aren't YOU doing what I need from you" which makes the game less fun for everyone, but especially new players that find themselves expected to play at a high skill level and anticipate their teammates needs right off the bat, which is just mean.

3: prices disconnected with what the market considers fair. seriously, several items approach absurd prices in this game which helps make people new to the game. many camos cost around $7USD and 'mechs can run $20 to $30 apiece! for a F2P game these sorts of prices are prohibitive, and look downright exploitative in comparison to many other games on the market. a business model that looks to be screwing it's playerbase, regardless of if it's a fair deal or not to the seller, is a business model that's going to do badly on the open market, where customer opinion trumps everything.

what PGI needs to do is understand it's problems, but pgi is very much unwilling to come to the mainland and see how everyone else does business with the people they're hoping to have support their product.

[Almond Brown]

Frostiken, on 18 April 2015 - 12:51 AM, said:

stuff

I stopped caring about you as a person at this point.

And that tells us quite a bit about how we should deal with you too.

You do know there is Salvage in MWO right? It is just dispersed in a C-Bill equivalent. Easier for new players too.

[Revis Volek]

Mcgral18, on 18 April 2015 - 01:12 AM, said:

You know, you're a very negative person.

If you keep that attitude up, this thread will be locked or thrown into K town, just like your other one.


Probably for the better, you certainly aren't good for the new player experience, insulting every other person posting in this thread.

Its because he has a GREAT IDEA but NO ONE WILL LISTEN!?! Arg

If you really think for one second ANYTHING you put in this thread is original, not being worked on or a good idea you can go back to playing CoD or whatever other free steam game you think is better.

As far as i can tell you mind is made up, also if you really wanted these changes why dont you send a email or hit Russ up on twitter?

As far as i can tell you are just here to be a rude and a troll and have nothing decent or intelligent to say. You just had an idea one night with no revision, think tanking or real application and you think you saved MWO.

Get a life dude....

Ragtag soldier, on 20 April 2015 - 09:07 AM, said:

3: prices disconnected with what the market considers fair. seriously, several items approach absurd prices in this game which helps make people new to the game. many camos cost around $7USD and 'mechs can run $20 to $30 apiece! for a F2P game these sorts of prices are prohibitive, and look downright exploitative in comparison to many other games on the market. a business model that looks to be screwing it's playerbase, regardless of if it's a fair deal or not to the seller, is a business model that's going to do badly on the open market, where customer opinion trumps everything.

what PGI needs to do is understand it's problems, but pgi is very much unwilling to come to the mainland and see how everyone else does business with the people they're hoping to have support their product.

Please go take a look at some OTHER SUCCESSFUL F2P games and tell me there prices are too high again...


You are way off base....also where are there mechs that cost $20? Maybe for all three variants....which equates to $6.66 plus the 3 mech bays you usually get for them. So even less....more like $4 dollars a mech.

Here is a F2P you should go take a look at https://na.wargaming.net/shop/


This page here https://na.wargaming...p/wot/vehicles/....first item is a $50 tank....ONE TANK!


Doing research pays off and keeps you looking like you know something.

Edited by DarthRevis, 20 April 2015 - 09:24 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Roadbuster, on 20 April 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

Honestly, I don't know how ELO works for new players, but if the matches of a new player go somewhat like some of my solo queue matches in a new mech this weekend...
I'd not be surprised if people would quit playing after getting stomped again and again because they don't know the basics and get matched against high ELO players with fully leveled fotm mechs.
Such an experience is very discouraging, especially if you're new to the game. And no CB reward, free mech, gift or event will change anything about this.

You know what else kills new player participation? Forcing me ( a new player) to have to endure 3 hours of Tutorials (because I am new I must suck balls) without a "I'll Pass Thanks" button on the very same page.

If I try a new game, without checking it out, or not availing myself of any Tutorial material then it is not the games fault I get my arse handed to me. Especially in a strictly PvP environment.

If one doesn't know shite about MechWarrior, then find out ffs. The same would be true in WoW. Take a low level character into the highest level PvE arena they are allowed without proper prep and the outcome is assured. Death, death and more death.

[ztac]

not really when you can buy a game and never pay again for £20-£40 This whole game is overpriced!

If they are going on steam I guess that funds must be getting low and the player base too! Some matches it almost feels like they are mixing the PUG queue with the group queue. It often feels like there PGI are putting very little effort or ideas into this game other than knee jerks. People posted a very long time ago back in beta some very good ideas which have never been adopted or they just refused to implement. The argument or reasons were nearly always badly thought out and showed that PGI do not understand what a game like this should be like.

Take CW for instance , all they do is just a variation on the original maps. Yes they added certain community ideas but you still had the same fundamental problems of groups vs PUGS and the very bad attitude of we don't want PUGS in CW. Well maybe the PUGS don't want groups in CW! CW was supposed to be (from the community POV) what the game was all about , but it is obvious that something is very wrong with it! Long queues are always a indicator, not to mention some very bad 'matching'.

The list of what is wrong with this game goes on and on , but PGI refuse to acknowledge the problems because a portion of the community are happy with how things are and do not want any change. The reason is because as things stand they have found the niche mechs and way to play that gives them a major advantage. The fact is that if the game had better gameplay and they actually put more thought into the game mechanics it may have been better , but for now it can get frustrating for new players once they get passed the initial rewards system and into main stream play.

Considering how long the game has been out now you would expect far better gameplay, but certain people have become entrenched in their views and unfortunately for the game what they say has a major impact on gameplay!

edit:- missing letters

Edited by ztac, 20 April 2015 - 10:07 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Frostiken, on 17 April 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

This game is kind of weird. It's a Free-To-Play game that seems to want to act as if it's a conventional Pay-To-Play game. The F2P formula has been pretty well nailed-down both on other PC games that beat this one to market, and let's not forget the entire mobile game nonsense going on there.Since this game is going to be on Steam soon, I really don't see it receiving a warm reception considering it lacks even the most BASIC elements that keep F2P games relevant for longer than their front-page time on Steam.1) Add in daily log-in incentives. A major challenge for F2P games is just getting people to log in to begin with. They have all these other games to play, why play this one? A simple C-Bill 'paycheck' for logging in once every 24 hours would be nice. Roughly around 100k if you're a F2P player, perhaps 200k if you have a boost active. Not only does this get people to log in, but underperforming players can get a decent C-Bill income to upgrade their ****** mechs.2) Regular special events. One weekend a month has double C-Bill rewards for all players, another weekend has double C-Bill rewards for boosted players.3) Regular sales. There's literally hundreds of mechs to buy. Once a month, for a weekend, put a mech chassis on sale. And don't just stick the shittiest, worst mechs on sale every time. Make it a Hero mech or something. Additionally, there should be some sort of daily sale on the more minor items and an additional discount on MC if you have a boost active. Hell, put sales in in the form of something like 'ALL XL ENGINES MUST GO!' and they're 40% off, 'one per customer'.4) Tone down the greed on the cash shop and the 'special' sales. $120 for the Clan mech pack? Seriously? It's four lousy ******* mechs, are you people out of your mind? This game doesn't exactly have a good reputation amongst anyone who's heard of it (*cough* $500 gold mechs).5) There is almost zero reason to actually play matches. The C-Bill rewards are embarrassingly low and will tremendously demoralize any player who isn't winning most of his matches. Furthermore, there's no real 'hook' to the game, things to work towards. So with that said, let's kill two birds with one stone: implement a salvage system. Here's how it works.After every round, tally up who was involved with killing what. Every single mech destroyed has a chance to drop salvaged 'parts'. Parts are non-functional until crafted together (which costs some C-Bills - at a discount if you're boosted!). The smaller and more simple an item is, the fewer parts it requires. A small laser, machine gun, etc. is instantly salvaged and doesn't need to be crafted. Large lasers might be two parts, AC-10s are three, AC-20s are four. Every round, a destroyed mech piece will be handed out to someone as well. If you put enough mech pieces together, you get a free mech! The top damage-dealer assist and the killer of a given mech get two chances to 'roll' on any loot from that mech.6) Stop making new mechs and actually focus on working on the game itself. There are more than enough mechs right now. In fact I'd say there's too many. Stop being greedy, and work on the maps you claim to be working on.

You are 100% correct. There is zero incentive or reason to actually to play the game since its only TDM. The game is utterly boring right now and needs a massive shift it play style/modes.

Edited by mogs01gt, 20 April 2015 - 09:57 AM.