41 replies to this topic

[Telmasa]

Miroki, on 21 April 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

Lol,
This poll has complete relevancy.
Light rushes happen for strategy, and not because of quirks, (quirks do not improve a light rush- unless you are really bad and rely on this)

Except that that applies to most units who do the light rush.

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Spawn camps happen when the team is bad, not because of the map design, although it could contribute to a better farm but does not whatsoever imply that the sole reason of a drop ship farm is due to map design.

Flat wrong. Bad teams still get the chance to play if spawncamping is not involved. Spawncamping removes that chance entirely. Map and game design is the key.

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Factions means every thing ! You should try a tour
clan mech vs is mechs - clearly listened to Russ in town hall lol.

I have. I was in an IS faction during the heyday of the Firestarter and Thunderbolt quirkening. I got fed up with it pretty quickly.

MischiefSC, on 21 April 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

Skill and coordination are better than mech advantages.

A squad of elite soldiers could kick a lot of ass with WWII era weaponry. That doesn't mean that WWII gear is comparable to modern kit. With a full modern kit and support they are 10x as effective. Same with mechs. If that team had been fielding better mechs they'd likely have beaten you soundly if they ground it down to the wire with gear like QDs and Orions.

A world class MMA fighter can beat you with 1 hand behind his back. What I see time and time again in this thread and ones like it equating that to 'one hand is exactly as effective and dangerous as two. Anyone/everyone should be able to fight just fine one handed' or even 'this one time I beat some 6 year old with one hand behind my back, so anyone should be able to win any fight against anyone one-handed because clearly I can'.

It's an absurd logic but that's exactly what's being argued here. The fact that you had a good fight against a team that had some people in sub-standard mechs doesn't mean those mechs are good - it means the pilot was playing with one hand behind his back.

The point was the game was fun because nobody, on either side, was using metacheese or mass consumable spam or anything of the sort. According to your analogy, I guess compared to the state of the 'meta' these days, we were having a one-handed boxing match.

And you know what? It was awesome. It showed what just might happen if the balance of the game was put into a good place (i.e. undo the damage of the quirkening, nerf the CERML/streak spam, adjust ghost heat so it can't be loopholed especially by clan mechs, etc.). If CW played out like that all the time, win or lose, I would want to play it 24/7 no question.

MischiefSC, on 21 April 2015 - 06:42 PM, said:

No. This argument comes up a lot; you are playing with an advantage. You in fact picked a faction that has an inherent edge in better mechs (TW, Scrow, HB). Possibly because you can't actually play well on an even field or you really like that BT TT buggery of Clans being stupidly OP (so much so that the game designers later said it was a bad idea but that tends to get glossed in this argument a lot) but it really doesn't matter why you want to keep the game unbalanced in your favor. In typical fashion for people who only like to play when they have a cheat/perk/bonus the other side doesn't it comes down to 'pfft, you just can't handle it'. Why should anyone have to handle playing an imbalanced game? Why can't you handle an even field?

You're saying people should let you play with an advantage. A mulligan, a handicap. You have an uneven field and you're trying to protect it, to hide from/avoid/shame people out of asking for a balanced playing environment.

Don't worry. Keep it up and maybe you'll have the 'skillz' to not need to have the superior mech in every fight to actually do alright. Until then though you've still got your crutch, balance is slow in coming.

I like this post, mostly because the same logic applies to superman-quirk'd IS mechs too. *Both* the superman quirks and the factors that make the 'elite four' Clan Mechs feel too powerful need to be brought down to the level of the rest of the game.

MischiefSC, on 22 April 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

Started as a troll thread but is full of people trying to seriously argue that the tw/scrow are balanced, qds are good mechs and orions are just fine. Oh, and so are Jenners and trebs.

In addition to the regular supply of " clans are supposed to be op, I wouldn't have bought them if they were going to be balanced".

This thread went full ******. It isnt trolling anymore, it's a circus sideshow. I'm on board with bringing bad performers of any sort up to snuff but you need to be honest about the state of the mechs first.

*shrug* I think the Quickdraw is a good IS heavy - decently high torso hardpoints, jumpjets, kinda tough, not bad - but the quirkening made it look terrible compared to other stuff.

The Orion...it's a poor man's Atlas. Both it and the Atlas, I feel, deserve some toughness quirks in order to be viable again. The last pitch I will make for the Orion is that as a min-max brawler, it does have a chance at matching a similar TBR brawler build.

Jenners are O.K. at the moment...and that's really I think where the balance should lie. I don't think the Firestarter-S should be so overwhelmingly better; I think Jenners could use a touch of CT strength quirks (kinda like the Catapult or other similar mechs). They have top speed engines, jumpjets, and a variety of hardpoint configurations, so they have things going for them - I do see them maybe 1/3rd as much as other IS lights still in CW. They've just been overshadowed by the Firestarter-S, Raven-2X, and the problems caused by Streak-6 imbalance.

Trebuchets...eh. It's a missile platform. You can run around with a big XL engine and cause havoc to lights with lots of ML and streak-2s, you can make an SRM-brawler, or you can bring a buncha LRMs. It's limited by the fact that it's a pretty niche missile platform. Which I think is fine, because if it weren't, what would be the point of other IS mediums? A Stormcrow with only regular SRM or LRM packs, plus 2-3 lasers possibly, can look very similar to a Trebuchet on paper.

To bring the Stormcrow down to other 50-60 ton mech's levels (without superman quirking), maybe you could touch the Stormcrow with a nerf to the CT - those bulbs on the sides of the nose are currently part of the sides, for instance, so what if they were part of the CT hitbox? The trouble I see is what if that's too big of a nerf, and makes the Stormcrow terrible as a walking CT. I doubt it, because of the wide variety of hardpoints & the mobility the Stormcrow has, but it's still worth considering.

And what if CERML ranges were reduced a bit? What if the damage was reduced by 1? What if heat scaling allowed you to only fire 4, not 6 (and if you paired it with a LPL or two, as is so common, you'd get slammed with penalties as severe as though you just fired 4LPLs at once)?

What if streak-6s range were reduced, or cooldown lengthened, or heat scale also nerfed?

Would IS and Clans - or will they ever - be perfectly balanced? No, and that's a futile goal. *BUT*, these changes would bring the game a lot closer to assymetric balance, close enough that the "elite four" thing wouldn't feel so overwhelming or become such a meta bandwagon.

Right now, comparing mechs like the Orion or Quickdraw to the "meta" basket of mechs is like comparing oranges to apples, because the balance isn't there.

Edited by Telmasa, 22 April 2015 - 02:26 PM.

[Stickjock]

Sorry, everyone! This thread appears to have reached a point of no return.
We thank everyone who has constructively participated in the discussion until now.
As a result of the on-going hostilities coming out of this thread, I am closing it down now.
Thanks for your understanding!