49 replies to this topic

[Rhalgaln]

Telmasa, on 19 April 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

It's not as risky when you've got god-mode quirks...just saying
MEDIUM PULSE LASER RANGE: 25.00 %
ENERGY RANGE: 25.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 %

The 5SS uses MPLs like they have the range of Large Lasers, *and* -15% heat *and* firing 15% faster than normal.

If that isn't game-breaking to you, I think you need your eyes checked.

Said the man in a stormcrow.

[Colonel Clunge]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 27 April 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

@Colonel Clunge - yep, I found being fully elited makes a huge difference to the T-bolt. I didn't see what all the fuss was about whilst skilling but as I got more used to the chassis and the heat, speed and torso perks kicked in I finally got it.

BUT it is as easily killed as any other mech if you get out of position, get focused by multiple enemies or play poorly. Even the mighty Thunderwub isn't an "I-win" button for an average pilot like me. I am enjoying it, don't get me wrong, but I still have to watch my position and avoid getting flanked or rushed,is it a keeper? Yes, for as long as it avoids the nerf-hammer!

Thanks Jimmy - was hoping that would be the case. Unlocked speed tweak last night and it's already making a difference!

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Rhalgaln, on 27 April 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Said the man in a stormcrow.

you mean the 2,5% exp god mode quirk?

Stormcrow should be the better mech, 5SS got buffed so hard it outbrawls almost all clanmechs including the mighty Stormcrow/Timberwolf/Hellbringer with ease. 5SS MPL boat is that good right now.

[Jorunn]

Colonel Clunge, on 27 April 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

Did anyone else have real issues with their T-bolts while they were mastering them? I have to say, I'm not quite feeling the love for them that's being said here. At the moment (without basic skill levels mastered) they torso twist so slowly that I'm a sitting duck if I ever get more than one opponent at a time.

Please tell me they get a lot better as you unlock the Elite skills?

(otherwise it's just me being a rubbish pilot - which is entirely possible )

I'm on #2 right now, grinding up to my third so I can master. Every single mech gets MUCH better when elited as the basic skills are doubled. This particularly affects your nimbleness but also weapon cooldown.

Being a long time Banshee pilot the Thunderbolt is as squishy as any other heavy compared to assaults (30 more tons of armor and weapons is a whole other light mech! lol).

Overall I'm enjoying them, that match above with 4 kills and 684 damage was an exceptionally good match but not yet elited. I'm averaging one or two kills and 300-400 damage. Everything has to do with positioning as the Stainless Steel Rat above said (loved those books!) but also marksmanship. Hitting your targets a higher percentage of the time especially with lots of peeking increases your effectiveness several fold. LPL and MPL I find are easiest to hit consistently with, PPCs take much better aim. I didn't feel I was a really good shooter till I'd had over 2000 matches...

[Colonel Clunge]

LOADED, on 27 April 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

you mean the 2,5% exp god mode quirk?

Stormcrow should be the better mech, 5SS got buffed so hard it outbrawls almost all clanmechs including the mighty Stormcrow/Timberwolf/Hellbringer with ease. 5SS MPL boat is that good right now.

Why should the Stormcrow be the better mech? It's 10 tons lighter - the T-bolt should be seeing off the Crow relatively easily..! And I wouldn't say it outbrawls the Timby or the Hellbringer - sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, which is exactly as it should be. I spent months getting my ass handed to me on a plate by all the Clan mechs whereas now it feels much more even - surely that makes for a better game for everyone - or do you Clanners just want to steamroll every game?

[Anunknownlurker]

I think the "should" comes from old-school Battletech where Clan outclassed IS (at least initially, I don't really know as I have never checked out the fluff for this game). Obviously PGI have tried to "balance" the game as best they can to allow big stompy robot wars to actually happen and I guess they way they have done it (by quirking and therefore improving IS chassis) is easier for them than allowing, for example, 2 Clan vs 3 IS or something like that. That would probably be a Match-Making nightmare

[Telmasa]

Rhalgaln, on 27 April 2015 - 05:52 AM, said:

Said the man in a stormcrow.

Colonel Clunge, on 29 April 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

Why should the Stormcrow be the better mech? It's 10 tons lighter - the T-bolt should be seeing off the Crow relatively easily..! And I wouldn't say it outbrawls the Timby or the Hellbringer - sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, which is exactly as it should be. I spent months getting my ass handed to me on a plate by all the Clan mechs whereas now it feels much more even - surely that makes for a better game for everyone - or do you Clanners just want to steamroll every game?

*shakes head*

Play the Timberwolf and Stormcrows yourself. It's not amazing. Neither chassis gets godmode quirks like the Thunderbolts do. The only reason T-wolfs and S-crows feel 'meta' is because of mobility meeting CERMLbarf/streak6 boating, both weapons that are fairly OP on any mech they get mounted on & deserve a nerf.

Timberwolf hitboxes are just a Catapult's with ears & arms.

Stormcrow hitboxes are just like a Centurion that visually grew a humpback.

Just get off the bandwagon already, the wheels are falling off.

Edited by Telmasa, 29 April 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[InspectorG]

Telmasa, on 19 April 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

It's not as risky when you've got god-mode quirks...just saying
MEDIUM PULSE LASER RANGE: 25.00 %
ENERGY RANGE: 25.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -15.00 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 %

The 5SS uses MPLs like they have the range of Large Lasers, *and* -15% heat *and* firing 15% faster than normal.

If that isn't game-breaking to you, I think you need your eyes checked.

Closest IS can get to a Timby. Its not that bad.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Colonel Clunge, on 29 April 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

And I wouldn't say it outbrawls the Timby or the Hellbringer - sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, which is exactly as it should be. I spent months getting my ass handed to me on a plate by all the Clan mechs whereas now it feels much more even - surely that makes for a better game for everyone - or do you Clanners just want to steamroll every game?

Let me get this staight, the 5ss mlp build with god tier quirks outbrawls every stormcrow and timberwolf, it doesn't even bother with hellbringers. it declassed all of those 3 "op" clan mechs when it comes into the 350 meter range.
if you lose half of your brawl with said mechs, you're doing something very, very wrong.

[Shadey99]

LOADED, on 29 April 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Let me get this staight, the 5ss mlp build with god tier quirks outbrawls every stormcrow and timberwolf, it doesn't even bother with hellbringers. it declassed all of those 3 "op" clan mechs when it comes into the 350 meter range.
if you lose half of your brawl with said mechs, you're doing something very, very wrong.

More, if the clan mech has let you get into the 300-400m range he has done something very wrong. Most clan energy weapons have better range than IS and the clan mechs have better speed (usually). So they are better off striking on the move and not letting the enemy get up into their faces.

I say this having mastered Stormcrows (Haven't finished my Timbies, to many bad matches in those to elite them yet) as well as Thunderbolts. I don't want to get up close to an IS mech. I want to keep him back near my max range and take less damage from his fire than I do with mine. I want to use that speed edge to duck between cover and fire on the move until the enemy dies.

[BoldricKent]

Always compering IS vs clan tech...people seem to forget that from lore, tonnage in battle ware very different,
firstly on account of clan bidding system and secondly on different base unit, star/nova to lance/company..so
12 to 12 isnt standard dogfight in battletech. When you use BV from TT, IS will out tonnage Clan at least by 30%, up to
80% if, you are smart with mech.
One way of compensating the difference is through numbers (like 8 vs12) or c-bills, where the real difference of stock
IS mech to stock Clan would be very apperent.
And from my experience in latest CW, damage difference in laser vomit build is still very heavy on Clan side (being
4 part damage, range, tonnage and crits.. yup more heat, but you can field 1/3 more heatsinks).
In my part, i would just like better hit registration.... unloading 3 4x4srm alphas in back of Stromcrow, and it was still standing...
grinding teeth.

[Jorunn]

I'd say it does feel more like a Timberwolf than other IS heavy mechs. Before quirks helped make the game more balanced for non-lore-obsessed players like myself, just in it for the game, going up against Clanners felt very not fun. Now I enjoy playing both my IS and clan mechs almost equally (except the Banshee is still my overall personal favorite).

[Anunknownlurker]

@Jorunn - it's almost like this game could do with "hardcore" mode - i.e. sticking to the fluff for the old Battletechers - and "normal" mode for people who just enjoy pew-pew robots.

I guess we'd need a larger player base to deal with that

[Colonel Clunge]

LOADED, on 29 April 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

Let me get this staight, the 5ss mlp build with god tier quirks outbrawls every stormcrow and timberwolf, it doesn't even bother with hellbringers. it declassed all of those 3 "op" clan mechs when it comes into the 350 meter range.
if you lose half of your brawl with said mechs, you're doing something very, very wrong.

Okay. Maybe this is a fair point. I probably don't lose 50% of what you would technically class as "brawls". Maybe I should have said I lose roughly half my "engagements" with Timbies and Hellbringers. It is fair to say that when you get up close, you get put some serious hurt on, but as Shadey99 rightly points out, getting up close is a challenge when you face more mobile mechs with a serious range advantage with laser vomit loudouts.

Anyway, my point is I feel there is more balance in the game now. IS have a heavy mech that can compete now which for 6 months of last year was not something you could say.

Is that such a bad thing?

[Telmasa]

Shadey99, on 29 April 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

More, if the clan mech has let you get into the 300-400m range he has done something very wrong.

Bogus. Every single map in the game has been built around chokepoints and narrow lanes, save for Alpine Peaks & Caustic Valley and *those* two just have a gigantic mountain at the top that you can circlejerk around anyway.

In other words the game pretty much forces you to get into the 300-400m range regularly. There's no room for flexibility or choice, because the maps don't allow it.

Nobody seems to remember what things were like in MW4 when maps were larger, bigger, and didn't have fake "cover" planted in "strategic" locations...brawler builds were still just fine with maps like that, it just took some actual strategy or tactics to make use of them.

[Appogee]

Telmasa, on 19 April 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

(...goes on about about Tbolt being OP without ever mentioning Storm Crow God Mode...)

I don't remember Clanners being this whiney in lore...?

You get to nerf (another) Thud after they also fix the Storm Crow's torso hit boxes,

Til then, good on one variant of the Thud for being one of the few IS variants able to stand toe to toe with the Clan's holy trinity of entire chassis.

Edited by Appogee, 02 May 2015 - 01:48 PM.

[Appogee]

Telmasa, on 02 May 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

Bogus. Every single map in the game has been built around chokepoints and narrow lanes,

What crap. There's CERLs streaming through the gates of most CW maps, from Clan Mechs standing well back with very long sightlines through those gates, on most CW maps.

[Shadey99]

Telmasa, on 02 May 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

Dung

Even on a map like river city which was designed for an 8 on 8 match you can stay over 500m in a mech fast enough to keep ahead of the enemy. And even with lots of cover, snipers can do amazing work on that map.

Edited by Shadey99, 03 May 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[Shalune]

Shadey99, on 29 April 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

More, if the clan mech has let you get into the 300-400m range he has done something very wrong. Most clan energy weapons have better range than IS and the clan mechs have better speed (usually). So they are better off striking on the move and not letting the enemy get up into their faces.

I say this having mastered Stormcrows (Haven't finished my Timbies, to many bad matches in those to elite them yet) as well as Thunderbolts. I don't want to get up close to an IS mech. I want to keep him back near my max range and take less damage from his fire than I do with mine. I want to use that speed edge to duck between cover and fire on the move until the enemy dies.

This is true of the Stormcrow because it can outrun the TDR easily, but these forums don't seem to have the faintest idea about how clan mechs actually work. Here's what that engagement looks like if both pilots are playing flawlessly on relatively open ground:

TBR spots TDR at mid range. TDR has shoulder to TBR. TBR's 1st alpha is split between arm and ST.
TBR hides briefly and reemerges for 2nd alpha. Again mostly arm and ST, between the two very minor damage is on CT.
TDR is now just about at optimal range, and TBR will overheat if he alphas again.
TDR has better dps given heat management, and vastly more accurate weapons. Even with twisting, the TBR will quickly lose half his weapons. TDR might lose 3 MPL if TBR has cool shot, or TDR doesn't twist properly.
TBR gets out-raced due to inferior dps, accuracy, and heat management.

See, the major advantage the TBR has is that it can do all that it does at range. If an enemy is dumb enough to skirmish with it, it can take its sweet time cooling down after each alpha. It will mangle you as you close, but if you rush one down it cannot manage the heat to keep up its damage.

As for people in this thread talking about "should be better" etc. I think this has nothing to do with in-canon IS vs clans stuff. It's that the TDR, weapons aside, is an absolute crap mech. The chassis itself is terrible. So much so that it was unplayable before quirks came along. So what you have now is a crappy mech carrying the best weapons in the game, while the Stormcrow - one of the best mech chassis in the game - is not flat out superior only because its weapons are worse.

I can relate to this to some extent, but do not agree with the sentiment. The 5SS, is borderline OP, but with the weakness of the chassis I think it's acceptable next to the great clan chassis and their own borderline OP cLPL. That said the Dragon 1N does annoy me. To me it's just sloppy design because there's no synergy to the quirked loadout at all. It's just an overpowered weapon slapped on one arm of a crap mech. I can't think of any other mech off hand that can carry 2x of a primary weapon that receives a 50% quirk. Even the "50" is misleading. It's really a 100% increase.

[Richard Hazen]

I need two more thunderbolts, thinking of waiting to see if they get a hero so I'm trying to decide between the SS or the SE variant next, I already have the 5S, which do you think?