401 replies to this topic

[Kiiyor]

Tina Benoit, on 20 April 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Hello MechWarriors!

Those of you who listened to the Town Hall on April 16th may remember the discussions regarding Quirks!

This thread is to hear out your feedback regarding your least favorite Quirks, pick the top 3 that you wish were different!

Least favourite: all the Jenners. All of them. It needs some CT armour and structure love. I want my Sarah's to be competitive again - some decent missile cooldown would be awesome, seeing as you can't mount a huge number of them anyways, and probably some MLAS range.

Also, the BlackJacks. With the 1X, medium laser buffs are all well and good, but the humble 'Sphere MLAS really isn't that great a weapon system anymore thanks to the Clan vomit advantage. The Clans just outrange and outdamage it, making the plucky and delicate little BlackJack a very, very situational beast. Give the 1X back it's WUB! LPL'S ALL THE WAY! LPL RANGE AND HEAT REDUCTION, BRING IT BACK!

I miss my wubjack ever so much.

[Fire for Effect]

most annoying quirks:

1)
any Ballistic/ PPC Velocity increases...

nothing is more annoying than having another point of convergence for your weapons for each and every mech.
I would gladly appreciate the option to deactivate that quirk in my mechs, since for me it is a massive hindrance, nothing positive in these quirks.

It might seem positive if you have only one Mech; if you have a few dozen it is a real pain in the ass.


2)
Any quirks that simply try to correct PGI failings. "Bread and Butter" Medium IS Laser for example are far to hot compared to ballistics AND damage is also spread; instead of changing that generally to a more useful figureby lowering heat a bit, some mechs get an absurd reduction of heat even below the tried and true original tabletop values, completely messing up balance...

3)
any quirks on Clan Mechs. these are more powerful already so why buff em?

[Duke Nedo]

Tina Benoit, on 20 April 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

Hello MechWarriors!

Those of you who listened to the Town Hall on April 16th may remember the discussions regarding Quirks!

This thread is to hear out your feedback regarding your least favorite Quirks, pick the top 3 that you wish were different!

I'd first like to give a general comment about quirks to the quirks team: Please look closely at which hardpoint(s) you are quirking before granting quirks. It sounds obvious but there are many examples of good-sounding-quirks that are completely hollow. For example, quirking low slung arm hardpoints have very little effect on performance, while the same quirk on a shoulder mount can be very useful even if it's only 10%. Therefore the quirked Hunchies are good mechs that have become better while quirked Quickdraws are still Quickdraws. Just saying in some cases there are unused opportunities to save a variant because the wrong hardpoints have been quirked, for example the Flame is not really helped by 10% less heat gen on the arms, what it needs is decent cooldown quirks for the excellent shoulder ballistics hardpoint.

The list:
1. Dragons. I love my Dragons, but only the 1N is really "saved by quirks". Flame needs ballistics cooldown, 1C instead should get the heat gen bonus for double shoulder E hardpoints, 5N needs proper AC/2 cooldown and heat bonus to put it on par with the 1N (similar or a little less dps because AC/2
2. Cataphracts. The 4X is rather useless because of the low engine cap. It turns it into a glass cannon with too little cannon. There is also a general problem that everything a CTF can do, a Jager can do better because better mounts. For this reason all CTFs need better brawling quirks. Could use ST armor and some general cooldown och heatgen quirks.
3. Victors. Still suffering from the poptart days. Victors have rather low mounts and need to be buffed as brawlers. That means more ST armor and heat gen quirks imo.

There are some chassi that needs more help, probably Quickdraws, Vindicators, AWS-8V, but I don't care so much for them... so.

Final comment: I agree that FS9-S is a bit OP right now, but please don't nerf it until after the Arctic cheetah has arrived. It will need every little bit of quirk that day...

[Maxx Blue]

Without a doubt, LB-X Spread reduction. If you decrease the spread enough that it doesn't spread damage at any reasonable range, it basically turns into an regular autocannon with a shorter range. It just doesn't help enough to matter. I would ditch this quirk and replace it with LB-X Cooldown at the very least. Firing more often makes way more of a difference with an LB-X than the spread does, especially for IS Mechs that only get the LB-X/10.

Runner up would probably be arm movement rate. I don't have any trouble with the arm speed on an Atlas or a Dire Wolf, which are some of the slowest mechs in the game. Since pretty much everything has faster arm movement than a Dire Wolf, this 'buff' doesn't really have a useful effect. Arm movement isn't slow enough in the first place to NEED buffing.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 27 April 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[0rionsbane]

My list will be a bit different than some.

I hate quirks that are causing a massive unbalance to the game specifically quirks that
Effect heat - these quirks are worth twice any cool down quirk re balance accordingly or remove
Effect range- these allow certain is mechs to out range clan mechs. this should not occur.

what i would replace these with
Heat - most mechs with these quirks "need" them because of bad hard points i would instead buff the machines agility to allow it to get a shot off more reliably.
range - Same deal with the hard points but i would buff its armor allowing it to trade better from range.

I would much rather you balance the ppc/erppc more with heat than it need 25% heat quirks to be put on a mech. but this is the one heat quirk that is pretty valid in game only because of the massive heat these generate.

Finally any quirk above 25%
replace with armor and agility buffs keeping 25%

Also change lbx to fire more like a clan ac in a stream (weapon fixed) clan ones can fire more rounds
and change erppc heat to 12 (basically auto quirking it to what it takes to use one)

Edited by 0rionsbane, 27 April 2015 - 10:38 AM.

[Nunspa]

I second Jenner Quirks...

I love my Shara's.... alot.. but feel like I'm behind the curve if I run it instead of a firestarter or spider... hell a Hugan is godlike

the the Jenner's their own niche.. right now.. "mhu"

[Malleus011]

Excellent thread, thanks for asking us.

To agree with some earlier posters, anything with a 'velocity' quirk is creating gameplay problems for my other 'mechs. An AC/20 should perform like an AC/20, ballistically, across all my 'mechs, otherwise I'm having to re-learn how to shoot from 'mech to 'mech. Additionally, if a weapon needs a velocity buff, it's likely the entire weapon family needs that buff (I'm looking at you, PPC and ERPPC) instead of just when used on that 'mech.

Any extreme quirk for a single weapon (not family of weapons) is usually bad. 20% ROF increase for all Autocannons on a 'mech is fine (maybe a tad high); another 20% just for the AC/20 is so extreme that you're really pushing the player to build to the quirk. Try 20% for all AC, 10% for AC/20. Still advantageous to use the 'right' gun, but not so huge that you're stupid for doing anything else.

Finally, I suggest a lot more non-weapon quirks. Torso twist, acceleration, hill-climbing, shake reduction (Atlas!), improved sensor range, etc - don't make everything about guns.

I'd really like to see quirks or changes that make the IS PPC and LRM minimum ranges less punitive and more like TT; so a 'mech mounting PPC and LRM isn't totally helpless inside 90 meters.

[Lostdragon]

I feel the whole quirk system as implemented is yet another poorly applied bandaid that fails to address the underlying issues that make the game less enjoyable. I would like to see quirks used to make mechs unique, not used as a necessary tool to make them effective.

[Alistair Winter]

• Catapult K2 quirks. This mech needs some cooldown / heat reduction quirks in order to make PPCs a good choice. Right now, the K2 is almost never used by anyone, and the people who do use it, use it to carry ballistic weapons instead of PPCs. A sad fate for the iconic CPLT-K2.
  
• The extreme Inner Sphere laser quirks, as seen on the Thunderbolt and Stalker 4N. Those two mechs are common as dirt in CW, and the laservomit trend is hurting the game.
  
• The Summoner quirks. They're all extremely underwhelming and the Summoner needs a lot more help to compete with the Timber Wolf and Hellbringer. 5% MG range is pointless.

[Liushing]

SHD-2D AC5 quirk: There's only one ballistics slot. There's no way I'm taking an AC5 over an AC20 or Gauss rifle. In fact, I'd love a quirk for either or both big-gun options. My favorite 2D build is still Gauss-2LL.

ENF-5P UAC5 quirks: Tonnage is precious and the UAC5 seems waste the space. Love the chassis. This is the worst variant of the three.

AWS quirks: I loved the chassis in other MechWarrior games, but it's a mess in MWO. It seems wider and nearly as tall as the Atlas, but doesn't have the armor or tonnage to make up for it.

Edited by Liushing, 28 April 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[keith]

in general it would be massive - laser duration and massive + refire rates. these 2 quirks ruin any balance that has been done by pgi. almost all of the quirks give qalaity of life improvements for the mechs. by lowering heat or helping them live longer, moving better. the 2 other quirks increase dps too much, dps/ killing should left skilled based.

[The Flying Gecko]

Homeless Bill, on 20 April 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

Every velocity change quirk, but especially the minor ones are bad news in my opinion. If the PPC needs to fly 25% faster to be used, then it just needs to be 25% faster. Making the same weapon travel at different speeds on different 'mechs is incredibly disorienting, and often it does more harm than good. Shell speed should be a constant the player can rely on.

But at least velocity quirks 25% or more are big enough to be immediately noticable and something you can adjust to. Velocity quirks 10% and thereabouts are nothing but a detriment. It doesn't feel like my shell is traveling 10% faster - it just feels like I'm missing every shot by 10%.

Yup - Velocity Quirks. It's really hard to judge how far to lead your shots when every mech fires the rounds at different velocities.

[Lagster]

My main gripe with the quirk system is pigeonholing. I would think that very, very general quirks would serve to help underperforming chassis while maintaining build diversity.

E.g., a general "10% reduced heat generation" would buff a chassis regardless of how a player likes to play that chassis. Tier 5 mechs could receive quirks to heat gen, range and cooldown all together, Tier 3 mechs maybe just one or the other, or lower percentages, etc. I am rather unhappy with the state of quirks right now as I feel forced to run triple UAC5 on my Jaeger-DD, forced to run large lasers on my Atlas-RS, etc.

An example of a quirk done right would be Hellslinger's resistance to ambient temperature quirk - something that buffed it without forcing certain builds.

[EvilCow]

In general I feel that a single quirk should not exceed 20%. It just feels wrong having a weapon behave so differently just because mounted on a different mech, Things like 50% should not exist, and if a 50% is applied in order to make something "viable" I would recommend looking into the root problem, quirks are seen as a cheap way to fix stuff.

Going into the specific, I think the Catapult K2 should get quirks focuses on PPCs, it is meant to be a PPC carrier so the current set does not make much sense.

Another point, if SL/ML/LL quirks are so common why don't simply look at the weapon and remove quirks? Same for the PPC family, now PPCs are only (marginally) viable on heavily quirked mechs, one could think that maybe, just maybe, the weapon itself is broken, maybe over-nerfed in the last changes pass?

[eFTy]

1) Any quirk that gives more than 10% bonus (cooldown, range etc.) to any sort of weapon. It's ridiculous to have some mechs be _immensely_ better with a certain weapon than most others. Dragon 1N, Hunchback 4J, Huginn, Grid Iron and many others perfectly illustrate this.

2) Any quirks that make -some- weapons only truly usable on _some_ mechs - especially velocity. It's pretty obvious PPC velocity sucks - increase it on the weapon and give the mechs that have it in their standard loadout a 10% heat gen quirk on the weapon.

3) Any quirks giving more Structure HP to mech parts that badly need armour. Prime example: Centurion arms: the RIGHT arm needs the extra armour (to protect the weapon), the LEFT arm does ok with structure - it's just there to absorb damage. Same goes for CPLT-K2 & CPLT-J - it needs more armour on the gun arms, not more structure. If the arm is still intact but the gun has been critted off, the left over structure HP are pointless.

Aaaand special mention goes to 10-20% bonus range on machine guns - those are just ludicrous. Only useful quirk for MGs would be crit chance, but that's similar to point 2 - it's a weapon buff the game needs, not a quirk.

Oh, I would also like to add what I'd -like- to see: more acceleration/agility/turn rate/twist angle quirks, especially on mechs that badly need them to perform their role Example: Stalker 5M has nice SRM quirks. But you can't really use them because it's a slow, lumbering beast with a very limited torso twist angle. Increase it's wist range to that of the 3F and increase it's twist speed, and see it become a unique, flavourful variant.

Edited by eFTy, 29 April 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[quantaca]

quirks i dont like are Mg RoF/range the AMS quirks unless they're just addons that dont take space from real quirks.
i actually don't really mind a few uber quirks like the huggin and dragon 1N got, just because they add some flavour its a real change in playstyle, just don't have 10 mechs like this that would take the fun out of it they need to stay niche although i guess a small debuf wouldn't hurt them too bad.

well i for one would look at range quirks first, heat second and only then cooldown (unless its ballistics then cooldown first range second) mainly because IS medium and small lasers just don't have the range they need to go up against the clans, ofcourse you could just up the base rangestat for these by 30-50 meter or nerf the clan side by that much (also look at the C-LPL that kinda range is insane compared to the IS variant).

id also like more/larger generic quirks with some smaller specific weapon quirks added on to them, although i have to add that that generic quirk thingy doesn't work for missiles because then you would see even more LRM's being missused on a chassis that just begs for SRM's. so yes you'd need to know your chassis' before you start adding quirks

most of the mechs that could use help are already mentioned but i'll list them again
lights
commando and locust, enough has been said about these in previous posts
medium
shadowhawk, i mean really ? even some of the clan quirks are better then what this sad little mech gets just look at what you did to the hunchback and reverse engineer it to the shadowhawk (that grey death needs some AC 20 love )
heavy
well i think most have at least a workable chassis, some specific variants need work though.
my exception to this would be the grasshopper, i really regret paying money for this i mean i like the design and all but it just underperforms especially compared to t-bolt jumpjets alone are not enough to choose this mech for CW it has a lot of energy hardpoints but when you use them you just lack range.
orions might need a little love as well, maybe some mobillity and armor to really make it a brawler
Assault
well basicaly all of them with the exception of the stalker 4N, they just don't feel like assaults.
some examples:
the awesome actually has some mostly good quirks but gets nerfed by its size and hardpoint placement. so it would need survivability and some acc/decc quirks to make poking less dangerous
the zeus is actually quite tanky and has a good size profile but it lacks punch
the battlemaster has very good weapon hardpoints overall, but its torso twist range is laughable. could do with some slightly better (say +5/7.5%) energy range/heat
the banshee also mostly good weaponplacement but could do with some better energy range/heat, a bit more than the battlemaster actually and trow in some love for that big CT and maybe some for the ST as well, take some off the arms if you must.
the atlas, well for something that big and slow it needs to be a bit more durable (yes even more than it already is) CT/ST armor, also some SRM (note not missile/LRM) heat/cooldown, energy (ML/MPL) range/cooldown and ballistic (AC20) range/cooldown boosts, to make it the fearless brawler it should be. maybe even throw in some mobility quirks

i have nothing to say about the victor or highlander because well ... i wouldn't know where to begin, people are just so disappointed in them that i fear to try them out.

side note:
how about a generic heat dissipation quirk ? should be possible you can already unlock this in the pilot tree, could be especially nice for clan mechs (and the hellslinger which already has that special environment bonus), they would still be limited by high heat generation but just loose it a little faster

[Johnny Z]

Easily the Gauss quirk for the Orion Protector. I cant use the gauss with the charge mechanic very well at all, but then I dont use macros.

[ClaymoreReIIik]

Mgmt-Summary: Take the bullet velocities from the "popular Mechs with velocity Quirks" and make those standard bullet velocities, then cap the Quirks at 30% distributing differently between weapon-group and weapon-system. Categorize quirks per weapon system as "upside quirks" and "downside quirks" and give a weapon system maximum 3 quirks distributed as "2 downside/1 upside".


I greatly dislike how the Velocity Quirks are working out.

The PPC is a perfect example of it. The weapon system needs 20% velocity quirk to be playable (at a competitive level). At a 40% velocity quirk it becomes good (hello Panther and Vindicator).

It is still a weapon system that has advantages in range and "facetime" while it has a downside in heat, cooldown timer, size and tonnage, compared to other energy weapons.

The ER PPC is still insanely hot and yet again its needs 15-20% velocity to be playable (at a competitive level). At a 30% velocity quirk it becomes good (hello Tbolt-9S).

That weapon system should be 40% faster for PPC and 30% faster for ER PPC across the board. Without that its just not viable against the Large Laser/ER Large Laser.

The only Quirk that system needs is either cooldown (yay hot) OR heat generation and there NEVER more then 15% and ONLY if those 15% machines have no more then 2 energy slots where you could fit a PPC/ER PPC.

Generally speaking, IMHO, the quirk system should adress downsides of a primary weapon system the mech has and improve one of the weapon systems upsides. From the top of my mind 2 downside quirks and 1 upside quirk per weapon system/group makes the most sense. 30% total is the maximum that anything should be quirked. As mentioned before in this thread a 20% general quirk on a weapon group with 10% quirk to a single weapon system seems to make the most sense.

A large laser Quirkset would be "reduced beam duration 10%" & "laser heat generation 10%" to adress the downside and "increased laser range 10%" OR "improved cooldown speed 10%" as the one additional upside.

A PPC Quirkset would be "reduced heat generation 15%" & "improved cooldown speed 5%" to adress the downside and "increased PPC range 10%" as the one additional upside.

[Rinkata Prime]

GAR-C LEFT TORSO says ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT)....
It is a left torso, how it can boost sctructure in the other side of the mech?

[XxCulannxX]

Probably a minority opinion, but in general get rid of the weapon specific quirk system in favor of a generalize weapon class buff. For example as much as I love the Dragon 1N you can simply give it a 30% bonus to ballistic cooldown (or what ever number suits you). Part of the fun of playing Battletech, and consequently MechWarrior was the wide array of choice when it comes builds. On certain mechs I have no other choice but to build around the quirks.