236 replies to this topic

[Bill Lumbar]

TLBFestus, on 06 May 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

YOU SIR ARE A RACIST.

Unless of course you simply mispelled ETHICS, in which case I take it all back.

Yeah... my bad.. I was in a hurry. But thanks for the flaming of me, then taking it back. Nice catch btw, that is what I like about some of you guys on here, you pay attention to the details... some just skip over them.

https://youtu.be/S7pGs7JU7eM

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 06 May 2015 - 07:34 PM.

[TLBFestus]

you gotta admit......it reads like you have a plantation in the ol' south with that spelling mistake.

It made me lol.

[Koniks]

Stoned Prophet, on 05 May 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

Im actually quite correct, as a "Good" business makes money and a "Bad" business does not. I told you, if you want to argue the "its bad from a customers point of view" You can do that. But I am not wrong. You just keep looking at it from only ONE perspective, and theres two sides to it bro

It's not just customers, bro. Tragedy of the commons and other external costs are also applicable. Never mind how a business can distribute wealth from something useful to something less useful. If someone went around breaking windows in order to replace them or starting fires in order to get paid to put them out (a thing that has happened), it would also be bad.

Adam Smith and unadulterated self-interest have been out of fashion for a long time.

[Stoned Prophet]

Mizeur, on 06 May 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

It's not just customers, bro. Tragedy of the commons and other external costs are also applicable. Never mind how a business can distribute wealth from something useful to something less useful. If someone went around breaking windows in order to replace them or starting fires in order to get paid to put them out (a thing that has happened), it would also be bad.

Adam Smith and unadulterated self-interest have been out of fashion for a long time.

You are not using logic and reason. I never said a business that commits crimes to increase profits was good, and anyone with 5h the least bit of sense would understand tbat doesnt even enter into the calculation. You guys are grasping at straws so hard your hands must be bleeding.

I do enjoy showing people just how little they understand about these situations. Keep it up guys very entertaining. Any more logical fallacies you wanna throw my way?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Stoned Prophet, on 06 May 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

You are not using logic and reason. I never said a business that commits crimes to increase profits was good

Actually you did...

Stoned Prophet, on 05 May 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

Im actually quite correct, as a "Good" business makes money and a "Bad" business does not.

If a good business is simply one that makes money, then the context of how they make it does not matter. This is the problem with making generalizations of a more complex situation.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 06 May 2015 - 12:07 PM.

[Koniks]

Stoned Prophet, on 06 May 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

You are not using logic and reason. I never said a business that commits crimes to increase profits was good, and anyone with 5h the least bit of sense would understand tbat doesnt even enter into the calculation. You guys are grasping at straws so hard your hands must be bleeding.

I do enjoy showing people just how little they understand about these situations. Keep it up guys very entertaining. Any more logical fallacies you wanna throw my way?

As Quicksilver points out, you simply don't understand the implications of your own arguments.

[Serpieri]

Pricing is a problem - lets take a look here.

Resistance Pack II - $80 - why would I spend this much when I can get Witcher 3 and a Season pass for the same amount?

Clan Wave III - $120 - why would I spend this much when I can get Sword Coast Legends Digital Deluxe edition which includes 5 copies of the game ?

Answer is Simple - IT's WAY OVERPRICED.

I'm willing to pay $10 for 1 mech and it's variants.

Edited by Serpieri, 06 May 2015 - 01:08 PM.

[Knight Magus]

Serpieri, on 06 May 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

Pricing is a problem - lets take a look here.

Resistance Pack II - $80 - why would I spend this much when I can get Witcher 3 and a Season pass for the same amount?

Clan Wave III - $120 - why would I spend this much when I can get Sword Coast Legends Digital Deluxe edition which includes 5 copies of the game ?

Answer is Simple - IT's WAY OVERPRICED.

I'm willing to pay $10 for 1 mech and it's variants.

Agreed, I'm finding the grind in this game reaching a point where it's just not fun and I can't bring myself to spending this kind of money when there are so many other games out their where I will get a complete game and not just mechpacks. Especially when I remembers MW4 packs were only $13.00 which also included 2 new maps and weapons.

Edited by Knight Magus, 06 May 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[TLBFestus]

I've come to the conclusion that Stoned Prophet is never wrong. Just ask him.

[Bill Lumbar]

TLBFestus, on 06 May 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

you gotta admit......it reads like you have a plantation in the ol' south with that spelling mistake.

It made me lol.

Na.... not really my style. I rooted for Silky Johnson when they went back in time to talk to the "owners".

As for Stoned....stop buying the brick, pick up some kind, clear your head out man. Seriously, think about it, you will get it....or not?

Edited by Bill Lumbar, 06 May 2015 - 07:19 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Knight Magus, on 06 May 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Especially when I remembers MW4 packs were only $13.00 which also included 2 new maps and weapons.

I remember the days when we complained about how expensive that was.....man I miss those days.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Gut, on 03 May 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

No marketing, limited development.

It FEELS like a shut down.

This thread isn't about being negative on PGI, it's about getting them to wake up.

Well... this is the path Hawken took. Only they didn't limp along.

I ******* loved Hawken, it was UT with Toasters. But visuals aside it was fun. About as fun as MWO, and much cheaper to get into. So when I wanted to play robots with friends that weren't already established in MWO, I played Hawken instead.

But development started to come to a crawl, they started making packages to sell, and for cheap too. Then they announced they were going to Steam. The dwindling population where everyone knew everyone, got a huge spike in numbers. And it was awesome. Until they all left because the game lacked maps and gamemodes and just had more and more Battle Toasters thrown at us. The Steam crowd was vibrant, full of energy, and really bad at videogames. But there were thousands of them. And they showed up overnight.

And as suddenly as they came, they left. And the game was dead three months from Steam launch. It hit Steam, and had one hitreg patch and that was the last thing they did to it.


That's were I see this headed. This feels like it's last hurrah.


Since this game went Open Beta, we've only doubled the map count (that's including CW maps) added one new gamemode. Whereas they've increased the mech count by some 800%.

Balance is... well I wouldn't call it that. But at least currently there are more viable mechs than before.

I no longer want to spend money because I no longer see a return on my investment. Since OB, I've played 10,500 matches (does it count CW matches?) and if each match lasts 4 minutes, that's 700 hours of game time just counting OB. Putting me at about $1.10 per for of entertainment. Not a bad investment compared to movies, where a theater is $5 per hour of entertainment or the shooting range where entertainment ranges between $3-20 an hour depending on what I'm shooting.

But when I compare MWO to other video games? It's not FarCry 3 bad where I dropped $60, beat it in 5 hours, then uninstalled. But it's not good either.

BF:BC2: 800 hours, $40, $0.05 an hour
Skyrim: 1200 hours, $60 (including all DLCs), $0.05 an hour
Planetside 2: 250 hours, $15, $0.06 an hour
Killzone 2: 600 hours, $60, $0.10 an hour
Borderlands: 900 hours, $90 (including DLCs), $0.10 an hour
Ratchet and Clank for PS3: 450 hours, $60, $0.13 an hour

MWO CB: 400 hours, $60, $0.15 an hour

MWO: 700 hours, $804 (not counting Founder's package), $1.15 an hour

In just MC packages, I've spent $129 and it didn't get me as much as the packages do. But I think there's a point where the spent money is ramping up but the enjoyment I'm getting out of the game isn't keeping up with the amount they're wanting me to spend. Hence I don't have any plans to spend anymore money. I'm not seeing the cost:fun ratio being very even when compared to the plethora of other games.

But it's not the price that's at fault.

It's the lack of stuff that you get for that price. And many potential customers would rather do business elsewhere. That's why my dad won't play it. He's a huge MW fan. But he won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. In his words, "I have neither the time to grind to keep up with the Jones nor do I see enough content to warrant me spending even $50 on that beta."

And I feel that his sentiments aren't uncommon judging by the size of the playerbase.

[Bill Lumbar]

Stoned Prophet, on 29 April 2015 - 09:33 PM, said:

I didnt disagree that it was exploitative, nor did I argue the definition of the word exploit. You need to read. I said if its making them money, it doesnt matter if its exploitative. /facepalm. Seriously.

Ummm yeah... well it matters to me.

[Gut]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 07 May 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

Well... this is the path Hawken took. Only they didn't limp along.

I ******* loved Hawken, it was UT with Toasters. But visuals aside it was fun. About as fun as MWO, and much cheaper to get into. So when I wanted to play robots with friends that weren't already established in MWO, I played Hawken instead.

But development started to come to a crawl, they started making packages to sell, and for cheap too. Then they announced they were going to Steam. The dwindling population where everyone knew everyone, got a huge spike in numbers. And it was awesome. Until they all left because the game lacked maps and gamemodes and just had more and more Battle Toasters thrown at us. The Steam crowd was vibrant, full of energy, and really bad at videogames. But there were thousands of them. And they showed up overnight.

And as suddenly as they came, they left. And the game was dead three months from Steam launch. It hit Steam, and had one hitreg patch and that was the last thing they did to it.


That's were I see this headed. This feels like it's last hurrah.


Since this game went Open Beta, we've only doubled the map count (that's including CW maps) added one new gamemode. Whereas they've increased the mech count by some 800%.

Balance is... well I wouldn't call it that. But at least currently there are more viable mechs than before.

I no longer want to spend money because I no longer see a return on my investment. Since OB, I've played 10,500 matches (does it count CW matches?) and if each match lasts 4 minutes, that's 700 hours of game time just counting OB. Putting me at about $1.10 per for of entertainment. Not a bad investment compared to movies, where a theater is $5 per hour of entertainment or the shooting range where entertainment ranges between $3-20 an hour depending on what I'm shooting.

But when I compare MWO to other video games? It's not FarCry 3 bad where I dropped $60, beat it in 5 hours, then uninstalled. But it's not good either.

BF:BC2: 800 hours, $40, $0.05 an hour
Skyrim: 1200 hours, $60 (including all DLCs), $0.05 an hour
Planetside 2: 250 hours, $15, $0.06 an hour
Killzone 2: 600 hours, $60, $0.10 an hour
Borderlands: 900 hours, $90 (including DLCs), $0.10 an hour
Ratchet and Clank for PS3: 450 hours, $60, $0.13 an hour

MWO CB: 400 hours, $60, $0.15 an hour

MWO: 700 hours, $804 (not counting Founder's package), $1.15 an hour

In just MC packages, I've spent $129 and it didn't get me as much as the packages do. But I think there's a point where the spent money is ramping up but the enjoyment I'm getting out of the game isn't keeping up with the amount they're wanting me to spend. Hence I don't have any plans to spend anymore money. I'm not seeing the cost:fun ratio being very even when compared to the plethora of other games.

But it's not the price that's at fault.

It's the lack of stuff that you get for that price. And many potential customers would rather do business elsewhere. That's why my dad won't play it. He's a huge MW fan. But he won't touch it with a 10 foot pole. In his words, "I have neither the time to grind to keep up with the Jones nor do I see enough content to warrant me spending even $50 on that beta."

And I feel that his sentiments aren't uncommon judging by the size of the playerbase.

Well put!

I payed $50 for Star Wars Battlefront 2 originally, and played that game well over 2500 hours, without even playing the campaign.

I bought 3 other copies of that game over the years just to either show support or have a digital copy on steam.

The argument is that PGI isn't a big publisher though. I say there's stuff they could put in if they work harder. CW development in 3 months, and then nothing much has changed since November.

Edited by Gut, 08 May 2015 - 11:15 AM.

[Ratpoison]

You want a continuous development cycle, you need continuous revenue. You cannot compare the pricing model of games that release for a standard price and end development after a couple bugfix patches and DLC sales to a game that is constantly attempting to improve itself and expand on the core experiences. Comparing any game that goes through its development cycle only to stop long term goals when it's launched for $60, to a game that constantly seeks out new long term development goals years after it leaves beta, is laughably fallacious and shows a severe lack of understanding of the financial requirements of a project such as this.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

tortuousGoddess, on 08 May 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

You want a continuous development cycle, you need continuous revenue. You cannot compare the pricing model of games that release for a standard price and end development after a couple bugfix patches and DLC sales to a game that is constantly attempting to improve itself and expand on the core experiences. Comparing any game that goes through its development cycle only to stop long term goals when it's launched for $60, to a game that constantly seeks out new long term development goals years after it leaves beta, is laughably fallacious and shows a severe lack of understanding of the financial requirements of a project such as this.

You should look up MPBT. That's what this game started off advertising itself as. MPBT is a shelf stable game with roughly the same number of mechs, far more maps, and far more gamemodes. A game that had roughly 2 years of development released with more core content than MWO. Same with MW4 and MW3.

The development of this game consists of circular balancing, mech packs, and the occasional map. This game has been in development since at least 2011. That's 4 years and it still has less substance than fully developed games that spent less than two years in development.

MWLL was in development for less time and had more core content and the guys working on it weren't getting paid.

Edited by Lord Scarlett Johan, 08 May 2015 - 05:34 PM.