29 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

been playing the jenner's lately and i must say:

i cant understand one bit why the firestarter got quirked to heaven while the jenner lacks them.
jenner only had speed and lagshield which got mainly taken. now it has nothing.
just a massive center torso on speedy legs.

firestarter always had superior lagshield + hitzones.

so why arent there some quirks to help the jenner but the FS9 went OP in many ways?

reduce some of the firestarters weapon quirks and give the jenner some quirks that help it with armor and structure for the center which it massively needs.

[Paigan]

Good old overbuffing maybe?
Firestartes were at (imaginary number, don't flame) 80%, so they got overbuffed to 130% while jenners are still at 100%

[Hans Von Lohman]

The Jenner is too ugly. Nobody wanted to go into the mechbay with it and add quirks. The nausea was too much for them.

Now the Firestarter looks a lot like a Kuala bear. Everybody loves Kuala bears. Right up until they drop on you from out of the trees with those nasty teeth and venomous barbs on their hind feet. However, by that time the damage was done and there were no survivors to tell the next set of techs that more upgrades were not needed.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 07 May 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

The only thing Jenner has better than the firestarter is the fact that it can mount an XL300 for that extra 2kph speed (over the Firestarters maximum of 295 engine rating)
.
.
Firestarter has better hitboxes (borderline broken), better quirks (Jenner practically has none), better hardpoint placement, MORE hardpoints and even more jumpjets.

Currently, there is no reason to use the Jenner over a Firestarter, because the Firestarter outclasses it in basically, every single way.
Except for the looks. Jenner is sexy as ****.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 07 May 2015 - 11:18 AM.

[Alienized]

Paigan, on 07 May 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Good old overbuffing maybe?
Firestartes were at (imaginary number, don't flame) 80%, so they got overbuffed to 130% while jenners are still at 100%

jenner might be at 100% but with all that quirking its too obvious that the center torso is too much of a weakness.
im not asking for weapon quirks, just quirks to help with that weakness.

and a nerf of the FS9 ofc so the jenner and FS9 are on one level again.

[bad arcade kitty]

jenner looks a lot better than firestarter

[xMintaka]

Juodas Varnas, on 07 May 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

The only thing Jenner has better than the firestarter is the fact that it can mount an XL300 for that extra 2kph speed (over the Firestarters maximum of 295 engine rating)
.
.
Firestarter has better hitboxes (borderline broken), better quirks (Jenner practically has none), better hardpoint placement, MORE hardpoints and even more jumpjets.

Currently, there is no reason to use the Jenner over a Firestarter, because the Firestarter outclasses it in basically, every single way.
Except for the looks. Jenner is sexy as ****.

You'll probably find that most Jenner builds use an XL295 anyway. All of mine do, in any case. I disagree about the hardpoint placement being better on the Firestarter though. The Jenner rarely takes arm damage (bullet magnet CT) and cockpit level weapons are very nice for ridge peeking.

No idea why PGI god tier'd the best brawling light in the game (Firestarter) and completely ignored the Jenner. It would be simple enough to tone down the quirks on the Firestarter and add a couple (CT structure, maybe energy range/heat gen) to the Jenner. Just enough to cement them into their roles. Firestarter as brawler, Jenner as hit and fade.

[FupDup]

Lunatech, on 07 May 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

No idea why PGI god tier'd the best brawling light in the game (Firestarter) and completely ignored the Jenner. ...

If I had to guess, it's because competitive players used Jenners and Embers for their lights before the first Quirkening, but they didn't use C-Bill Firestarters (Ember was better brawler, Jenner was better midrange poker). So, due to compies not using C-Bill FS9's, they quirked them...

[Alienized]

FupDup, on 07 May 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

If I had to guess, it's because competitive players used Jenners and Embers for their lights before the first Quirkening, but they didn't use C-Bill Firestarters (Ember was better brawler, Jenner was better midrange poker). So, due to compies not using C-Bill FS9's, they quirked them...

and now its all the other lights which dont have ECM are literally dead (oxide and huginn dont count)
i doubt that this was the idea behind the quirkening.
besides that so many mechs have such an awful firepower now that midrange poking with the jenner ends in a desaster with that massive CT and med lasers burn time.

[Thorqemada]

Firestarters were God-Mechs since release and Jenners only Top Tier bcs of some good Player using the 6xML Jenner for good success (also using the JJ Hit Detection exploit).
Jenner is still good and well - its the broken and overquirked Mechs that need to be fixed!

Have my Jenner-F+S run the XL285 + AMS (+1t) + BAP + 4JJ
F is 2xSRM4 (+2,5t) + 4xSL
S is 2xArtemis SSRM2 (+1t) + 4xML

But i do not play them much as i am a Medium to Heavy Pilot - my Cicada 3M (ECM/BAP/AMS + AC5 + 4xML) is me light enough.

Edited by Thorqemada, 07 May 2015 - 06:45 PM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Actually finding Sarah's build to be quite useful in learning Jenners. Not having jump jets really makes me think about exposure times and plan my attack.

[Screech]

Probably due to some backlash from the announced sex change.

We need some SJW to come to the rescue and stop the bigotry.

[TygerLily]

Would rather quirks were backed off than added to Jenners. Imo we're getting too much power creep... Also, pop some negative quirks on the "holy trinity" Clan chassis and go from there...

Edited by TygerLily, 07 May 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[zagibu]

FupDup, on 07 May 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

If I had to guess, it's because competitive players used Jenners and Embers for their lights before the first Quirkening, but they didn't use C-Bill Firestarters (Ember was better brawler, Jenner was better midrange poker). So, due to compies not using C-Bill FS9's, they quirked them...

It's because once upon a time, when PGI still used to play their own game, Jenners were actually good. Sadly, this is the most up to date information they have about the product they are developing. But hey! Why fix old stuff when you can make new shiny things and sell them?

[Crotch RockIt]

All Jenners should get a +12 structure quirk to the CT.

The FS9-S MPL heat quirk should be reduced from 30% to 15%.
The FS9-H energy range quirk should be eliminated.
The RVN-H SRM4 50% cooldown, 25% range quirks should be replaced with general missile 30% cooldown, 25% range quirks.
The RVN-2X LL heat quirk should be reduced from 25% to 15%.
All Commandos should get a doubled ammo quirk.

These changes would go a long way to balancing the IS Lights.

[Darian DelFord]

All Jenners need a CT Structure and Armor Buff period

The Oxide needs an additional armor and structure buff to its legs over the +4 it has now

The F might need a ML burn time reduction

The D is the same as the F

The K is in a decent spot with a CT buff

Lunatech, on 07 May 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

You'll probably find that most Jenner builds use an XL295 anyway. All of mine do, in any case. I disagree about the hardpoint placement being better on the Firestarter though. The Jenner rarely takes arm damage (bullet magnet CT) and cockpit level weapons are very nice for ridge peeking.

No idea why PGI god tier'd the best brawling light in the game (Firestarter) and completely ignored the Jenner. It would be simple enough to tone down the quirks on the Firestarter and add a couple (CT structure, maybe energy range/heat gen) to the Jenner. Just enough to cement them into their roles. Firestarter as brawler, Jenner as hit and fade.

Ummm no

Most Jenner buidls especially competitive (F Oxide and D) all use 300 XL for the extra heat sink slot in the engine combined with FF and endo. If you are equipping anything else besides ML's and JJ's to the Jenner you are really doing it a disservice.

FupDup, on 07 May 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

If I had to guess, it's because competitive players used Jenners and Embers for their lights before the first Quirkening, but they didn't use C-Bill Firestarters (Ember was better brawler, Jenner was better midrange poker). So, due to compies not using C-Bill FS9's, they quirked them...

Your exactly right

Alienized, on 07 May 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

and now its all the other lights which dont have ECM are literally dead (oxide and huginn dont count)
i doubt that this was the idea behind the quirkening.
besides that so many mechs have such an awful firepower now that midrange poking with the jenner ends in a desaster with that massive CT and med lasers burn time.

True but more Huginns are out there than there are Oxides. Rarely do I see another Oxide in my team. Mid Range poking is still viable with the Jenners the problem is the Doritos chip, situational awareness and fixes to Hit Reg.

Thorqemada, on 07 May 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

Firestarters were God-Mechs since release and Jenners only Top Tier bcs of some good Player using the 6xML Jenner for good success (also using the JJ Hit Detection exploit).
Jenner is still good and well - its the broken and overquirked Mechs that need to be fixed!

Have my Jenner-F+S run the XL285 + AMS (+1t) + BAP + 4JJ
F is 2xSRM4 (+2,5t) + 4xSL
S is 2xArtemis SSRM2 (+1t) + 4xML

But i do not play them much as i am a Medium to Heavy Pilot - my Cicada 3M (ECM + LBX10 + 4xML) is me light enough.

There is truth to that, but the JJ exploit did not help Jenners as much as it did the other mechs. Reason being the CT is just so damn big.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 07 May 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[Timuroslav]

Let's be fair here. When the Jenner finally, got its hitboxes to work. People started dumping it. When firestarters got crazy good quirks. (too much, too good quirks in my opinion). People started playing Firestarters like mad.

Light mechs have the problem of being ultra sensitive to the meta.
The Meta will always exploit game mechanics, because gamers are that competitive.
It's sad but it's true.
Fortunately, PGI has been diligent in addressing Metas and because of that Metas usually die in 3 months.
However since PGI has been fixing bugs, making tutorials, making other things.
Mech Balance is on Hiatus right now.

Which is why we see the Abused Thunderbolts, Timberwolves, Stormcrows, and Firestarters.

The Jenner and the Catapults are still not bad mechs. But, the people who complain the most are trying to force the mechs to do roles they aren't designed for.
Catapults weren't meant to be SRM brawlers, and Jenners weren't meant to be brawlers either.

TL;DR:
PGI is busy debugging. Enjoy your broken meta before the Nerfbat comes home. Jenners' aren't bad; but the lag-shield crutches are gone now.

Edited by Timuroslav, 07 May 2015 - 01:44 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Yup OP I couldn't get my head around this one, the firestarter was easily the best light in the game, and it got a hell of alot of quirks, the jenner which needed quirking almost as much a as comando got close to squat for its troubles

[Darian DelFord]

Cathy, on 07 May 2015 - 01:42 PM, said:

Yup OP I couldn't get my head around this one, the firestarter was easily the best light in the game, and it got a hell of alot of quirks, the jenner which needed quirking almost as much a as comando got close to squat for its troubles

Yes I agree as well, the jenner does NOT need to be over done like the Firestarters, but that CT Buff is sorely needed.

[One Medic Army]

Darian DelFord, on 07 May 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

Ummm no

Most Jenner buidls especially competitive (F Oxide and D) all use 300 XL for the extra heat sink slot in the engine combined with FF and endo. If you are equipping anything else besides ML's and JJ's to the Jenner you are really doing it a disservice.

In the competitive game maybe, because good luck sneaking up on anyone there, even with ECM.

In the PUG queue, you can still run a hit-n-run attack type build where a pair of SRM4s add a nice punch with low facetime required.

I'd actually like it if the Jenner was quirked for skirmish tactics (and tougher CT), rather than the firestarter's brawling quirks. Stuff like beam duration, acceleration, deceleration; rather than heat or cooldown. It even happens to be the tabletop role of the mech.