14 replies to this topic

[Banditman]

There really isn't such a thing as a "Support" role. All mechs are created with weapons to do damage, and armor to take damage, and as a team player, you'll be expected to do both. Every ton of armor that isn't taking damage is a disadvantage to your team, and every weapon that isn't firing is a disadvantage.

Don't let anyone tell you damage is king. It's not. Killing the enemy is king. If you can do this by headshotting every opponent you face, your damage will be extremely low, but your win rate will be extremely high. Likewise, if all your shots hit enemy CT, your damage won't be as high, but you'll likely win most matches. Damage is simply what is measurable, but that measure can be extremely misleading if it isn't generating kills.

Consider "Missile Boating" now. You have no control over where your damage is applied. That's a Bad Thing ™. Because of the nature of missiles, you'll have to do a lot more damage in order to get a kill. You'll be doing damage to arms, legs, all torso sections, etc. That's the slow way to kill something, and is always second rate to just putting a few rounds in the head or CT and moving on to the next victim.

"Laser Sniping" has some negative connotations as well. You're implying that you want to be behind the lines where you can simply stand there and fire your weapons. In this case, you're depriving your teammates of the armor you carry (this typically applies to missile boating as well). It's there for a reason, it's a resource to be spent. Ideally, you want all the armor to be removed from all the mechs on your team before anyone dies. If you can do that, most likely, you're going to win.

As far as Trial mechs go, you should try them all. At least learn what works for you and what doesn't. The trick is to really give them all an honest effort, 50 or so matches each and avoid the temptation to simply purchase the first mech you have a good match in. Good matches can be a fluke, as can bad ones. You need a lot of data.

[Rogue Jedi]

if you are after providing fire support I would suggest sticking with but slightly (no more than 200m) behind the main force and just shoot at what everyone else is shooting at, it does not matter what weapons you are using.

as has been said Missiles are not the best for kills because they spread damage, however their big advantage is that the player is warned about them, you may be able to "convince" the enemy to stay in cover, allowing your team to get closer without getting shot at, most players know how to avoid missiles, it involves putting something in the missiles flight path or preventing the LRM Mech from getting a lock (ECM. chasing off spotters ect).
if there is something in the flight path Gauss, ACs, SRMs and lasers are also unlikely to hit you, the major difference is that with other weapons if you have a lock but no direct line of sight you are unlikely to waste ammo/heat firing on the enemy with anything except LRMs.

the other options for long range fire support are Lasers, PPCs, Autocannons (AC2, AC5) and Gauss Rifles, all have advantages and disadvantages,

Lasers do not weigh much but generate a lot of heat, the laser beam is instant hit but to do full damage you have to hold the beam on target for its full duration, however the other side of this is if you miss you probably have time to put the beam on target to deal some damage.

PPCs weigh more than Lasers ^{(except the LPL)}, but fire a ^(relatively) slow moving projectile, they also generate a lot of heat especial the ERPPCs, if you hit you deal 10 damage to a single location ^{(+ an additional 2.5 to 2 other locations with the Clan ER version)}

AC2, AC5 and UAC5 are relatively fast firing cannons, they do not deal much damage per shot but recycle faster than most other weapons, if you miss you will get another shot within 1.5 seconds, but you will likely spread your damage, these lay down a lot of fire and keep the enemy shaking, the 2 has a fast projectile, the 5 has a slower projectile but is still faster than the PPCs.

Gauss Rifle, this is essentially a sniper rifle, however you cannot get one hit kills with it unless the enemy is already seriously damaged. a gauss is big, heavy and only has 10 shots per ton of ammo, and it takes about 4 seconds to reload
the Gauss projectile has the fastest travel time of any projectile in game but you have to "charge" the weapon before firing ^{(hold down the fire button for 0.75 seconds, then you have 1.25 seconds to release the button to fire or else it will "loose its charge")}, however the Gauss is probably the best sniper weapon in the game.

[bad arcade kitty]

meanwhile people whine to nerf ecm and if it happens the only thing which reminds the support role disappears from this game

[Banditman]

That may seem like what's happening, but it's not. Ideally, you want your entire force to present to the enemy at the same time, forcing them to make hasty and difficult decisions about who to target without having the right information to make that decision.

As an example, that line of thinking says that your Assaults should always present first, and that's not necessarily the best choice. Sure, you're not always going to have the ideal situation, and sometimes you're going to be forced to present smaller numbers of targets to the enemy initially. Say you have the ability to present three targets to the enemy: A Shadow Hawk, a Thunderbolt and a Stalker. Who do you present first?

A less experienced player will say "Stalker". It's the biggest target, most armor, present this target first right? Wrong. Present the Shadow Hawk first. Why?

First, because the Shadow Hawk is the fastest, most maneuverable of the options. It can get into and out of trouble much more easily than the other two can.

Second, the Shadow Hawk is likely to be the least armed of your mechs. When that first mech presents, he is going to get hit pretty hard. The opportunities for this mech to put guns on an enemy are going to be very limited. He'll probably have to cover back up pretty quickly. In that situation, wouldn't you rather have the majority of your firepower available to damage the enemy?

Third, consider heat. When that Shadow Hawk presents, the enemy mechs will start firing, and thus heating up. You've preserved your two heaviest hitters by presenting the Shadow Hawk, and now you've given your mechs a heat advantage as well, since they haven't fired a shot yet.

With experience, these sorts of things will just become natural and automatic. If you're presenting yourself first, you'll know exactly how to do so in order to take as little damage as possible, while drawing the maximum amount of enemy fire. As one of the heavier combatants, you'll understand that once the Shadow Hawk commits, he's counting on you to come in behind him and clean house, despite the fact that the enemy will quickly shunt their firepower over to the larger danger you've brought to the field.

This is Mechwarrior. The subtle parts of the game are very subtle, and you need experience in your pocket before you can really start to act on them and react to them. This one thing you said here: "I tried my best to stick with others and shoot at common targets" will get you farther than you can imagine.

And once again, save your money until you know the answer for yourself. The Hunchback might "seem" like a good idea, but in the long run, they are one of the easiest mechs to disable in the game. My best advice to you is to surround yourself with experienced players who can help guide your first steps in this game. It will save you a ton of time, cbills and aggravation.

Edited by Banditman, 22 April 2015 - 10:37 AM.

[JC Daxion]

I learned on HBK's, and still drop in them 2+ years later.. since they got quirks they are a lot tougher now. You can actually use your right torso as a damage soaker now.. (though use your left side first is always a good idea)

to me they are a great price, have good speed, and lots of variations on loadouts to try a ton of different weapons, and builds.. I always say, a 4P, 4SP, and 4H are the best newbie trio, as you get to use the largest combo of weapons, though some may say the 4G, which you can run dual ac-5's, and is quirked to an AC-20 which is very nice, But has limited every mounts so not as flexible as the 4H which i think is a bigger deal for a first mech. If you fall in love with the HBK with an Ac-20, spending a bit more cash for the chassis is not a big deal.


if buying mech packs, the centurion pack is a very good value for the MC, as the hero is a great brawler, and the champion comes with an XL-300 which is a great engine that costs around 5million cbills in itself. so really the pack is a great value.

both are great newbie mechs, as are the 55 ton shadow hawks, and griffins, though i own wolverines, which are another 55 ton mech. they are a bit less flexible, but are pretty solid mechs.. can't wait to see what hero comes around for um which should be very soon! these 55 tons mechs also have a version that has an XL-275 which is a nice engine which can be bought for c-bills, around 8 mill for that variant.


check out this list to see engine sizes, load outs, and play around with building tons of mechs.. pay attention to heat, speed, and DPS as you play around..

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

[Jody Von Jedi]

Breidr, on 22 April 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

I'm sure I could also learn to love the PPC if I get the projectile speed down, but hitscan is easier for the time being. I've been looking into the Hunchback line as it seems to have variants that can do it all, are they useful on drops? Suggestions on some chassis to master first would be appreciated as well.

Good PPC use is an art. Some of the mech variants boast a PPC velocity increase quirk. This is a blessing and a curse. If you run PPCs on multiple variants, some may have the quirk, others may not. So when you switch between these variants, projectile speed will be different from one mech to the other. It can become rather frustrating.

Medium mechs, IMHO, offer the best bang for the buck for a new player. Any of the 50-55 ton variants are great beginner mechs. If you like laser boats, I suggest the the HBK-4P with medium lasers. The ENF-4R has 5 energy hardpoints and is currently my favorite mech. SRMs are another weapon you have to get used to leading targets with, but the TBT, WVR, and GRF are all great SRM boats with a couple exceptions. SHD is a balanced mech with a couple hardpoints of each type, Missile, Energy, Ballistic. In the right hands, they're impressive, but not a good beginner mech.

Going down a little in weight, I'd also suggest the 45 ton BJ-1X. I run mine with 2 LL and 4 ML. It doesn't have Jumpjets, but the larger engine quirk makes up for some of that.

Welcome to MWO!

Jody

[Deristul]

I can offer a few basic tips.

Fire, then twist. This keeps the damage spread around. If you have a dead arm (no weapons mounted), try to use that as a shield. If your not firing you don't need to be broadsided.

Stay with the group, which you already know.

Focus fire. Don't be afraid to call out your target. Hits caps and tell ppl what you are firing at. Many will switch to your target, if they are around. Lrm boats will also happily make it rain.

Last of all, get a headset that works well with the game and team speak. Communication is vital and basic. If your really the tactical savant, you might check out the infantryman's Handbook.

You can holler at me in game anytime I'm on, good luck and good fighting.

[Rogue Jedi]

Breidr, on 22 April 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

I've been looking into the Hunchback line as it seems to have variants that can do it all, are they useful on drops? Suggestions on some chassis to master first would be appreciated as well.

the Hunchback would be a good choice for first Chassis because it offers several diferant playstiles on the same Mech, each varient is quirked to help its stock weapons, so:
the G works great with an AC20 and Medium lasers,
the H with an AC10 (I cannot use the 10 sucessfully but no reason not to try it)
the P can carry up-to 9 Medium Lasers, if you find it too hot do not be afraid to swap a few lasers for extra heatsinks
the J has LRM10s which fire at the same rate as LRM5s
the SP has SRMs and it the only Hunchback without a hunch
the Grid Iron costs real money but is great for a Gauss Rifle

all those will need some upgrades, Endo Steel internals, Double Heat Sinks and a larger Standard engine (250+) will probably be useful, that is 3.5 million on top of initial purchase price for the first, 2 million for each after that as you can swap the engine around.

other good starter Mechs include the Shadow Hawk, Centurion and Griffin, and if you are after a fire support platform the Blackjack, Jagermech and Catapult could also be good.

before buying anything look at http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab and play around with potential builds, unless you are planning on different weapons for different ranges I advise you to aim for a cooling efficiency of at minimum of 40%, also look at quirks here http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 22 April 2015 - 10:26 PM.

[beerandasmoke]

I would suggest jagers. The dual gauss jager has been around a long time and is still a deadly mech. Jagers can also run other varieties of builds such as dual AC20, 3xUAC5, 2xAC5 2xAC2 that are all great support builds. Small caliber autocannons such as the AC5 have a low heat generation and are easy to use for new players. You just point at the target and point and click.

If you want to try missles then the best IS mech for it at this time is the Hunchback 4J. With a cooldown module on the LRM10s the rate of fire is insane. Stick a big XL in it, TAG in the head, and 4xML and your good to go. Remember though that LRMs are very feast or famine right now with the Radar Derp module and the amount of ECM in que.

If you really want to go all out and spend some money then pick up the Hellbringer. Its the best support mech in game at the moment. A 65 ton clan mech that packs ECM, a ton of podspace for weapons, and highmounted hardpoints in the left torso that allow hillhumping sniping. Just follow along behind your other assualts and heavies providing ECM coverage and zap people with the wide range of weapons this mech offers. You just cant go wrong with the Hellbringer.

[rolly]

Breidr, on 22 April 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

For now, I wanted to ask what Trial 'Mechs are the "best" for giving this a go. Once I get that figured out, I can move onto other things, like my first 'Mech purchase.

Being support is both easy and hard at the same time. Easy because you're supporting the other mechs taking all the fire and not being shot at as much. Hard because being support means you rely heavily on your team to get this shizznit together and give you the opportunity to support them.

My favourite support Trial : The "Cute" Fox- C - Its a canon variant that just went off the trial market store and costs about 6.8 million and worth every c-penny. Reasons:
- Its got a CERLL for fire sniping, and secondary crit-finding MG's and a SML
- Its got a TAG, ECM and triple AMS.

If you announce your support to your team and pick the guys the need it the most, everyone will be happy to be under your AMS umbrella and ECM coverage.

The trick => Not die a horrible death early on, place yourself around your herd of assaults with enough room to give them room to move and backup, BUT blast all LRM's incoming with all your AMS. Don't forget to turn off your AMS when you're underground with the Tild key. The ECM and TAG will be a boon to your team and get you TAG bonus. The trick is to ensure most of your team is blanketed with ECM and that you don't get singled out from the herd which is your cover. In a pinch and when the odds are in your favour, snipe to your hearts content and hose crippled enemies with your MG's and SML to get opportunity kills.

[bad arcade kitty]

rolly, on 22 April 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

My favourite support Trial : The "Cute" Fox- C - Its a canon variant that just went off the trial market store and costs about 6.8 million and worth every c-penny. Reasons:
- Its got a CERLL for fire sniping, and secondary crit-finding MG's and a SML
- Its got a TAG, ECM and triple AMS.

imo the real reason to buy kfx-c it's because it and kfx-prime have the best ct quirks

otherwise you could just buy another variant and use kfx-c right (and possibly left) arm(s)

[JC Daxion]

Rogue Jedi, on 22 April 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

the SP has SRMs and it the only Hunchback "without" a hunch

fixed

[Romeo Deluxe]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ght_innersphere and so on down the list.
https://www.mechspecs.com/ build ideas and discussions how to use them
http://mwomercs.com/...-lrm-boat-help/ they are very good in the solo queue as suppression. Add this with you on a mic giving intel. On some maps you can even lead very effective charges at the enemy. My preference is mediums for their mobility, ex. CN9A. Also one I still keep in the Mechlab is TBT7M.

AC2 but they were nerfed, so not as good as once were. AC5's as suppression. JM6S is one I have but there are better mechs for that role.

I have a fetish for lights but they have become even harder to make effective use since Clan mechs came out with their Streaks. Try the Raven and explore using them as support, i.e. Narc and TAG or just plain spotting, vs sneaking around and getting into the back of the opponents. Lights with JJ's are the ultimate mobility, I suggest never making one with less than 2 JJ's. I know one JJ works for some mobility but I would rather be able to really get around objects. OTH the Firestarter is one of the most powerful offensive mechs in the game right now.

Sniping? Not so sure about this. I only ever used it as suppression like while I close in on opponents or convincing them to stay in cover while teammates closed in. The problem in MWO is that if you try to fight to far from the main pack of teammates you are going to get singled out by lights and fast mediums. In fact it will likely be me shooting your legs out.

Make sure you are on a mic if you try this http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4356061

My final advice is to spend your money on Mech Bays. Lot's of bays then start working your way through as many as you have time to do. The more chasis and variants you try out and master the better understanding you will have of MWO.