74 replies to this topic

[Zolaz]

During the town hall Russ stated that 1/1/1/1 was a good alternative to light rushes. That is a response that just makes my skin crawl. I hate 3/3/3/3 in group queue and would rather have tonnage limits or a battle value for a group. 3/3/3/3 ruins the immersion of the game. If a group is suppose to be a mech company, field it like one.

Restricting mech choices instead of altering the game map and mechanics is putting the cart before the donkey. At least give me the illusion of choice by being able to field different mechs in my drop deck. I prefer mech simulation to mech arcade stompy robots.

I know that I am not going to get ammo bay fires, rerouting generators on the fly, fixing coolant leaks, rerouting power to weapons or increasing/decreasing power to weapons to make them fire quicker or hit harder. It is a shame because that would fix that TTK problem and let you return rate of fire to more cannon levels.

Right now the game feels like I am driving a bus and I long for what I had in the V2 Tesla pods. Please dont make the most realistic mode of the game (CW) get more arcadey and dumbed down. Give me more options, not less. If I want 2/0/1/1 then give me the option like I have now. Please dont yank the rug out from under me again.

[Sandersson Jankins]

Although my current go-to dropdeck IS 1/1/1/1, I would vehemently argue against forcing that.

Anything reducing player choice while not being HIGHLY effective at fighting an important problem is bad.

I also don't consider light rushing to be a top priority for "fixing". Social engineering, education, documentation, leadership of pugs, and overall better attitude and more "fighting spirit" can fix that. Now, TECHNICAL issues or IMPLEMENTING NEW FEATURES can't be fixed by anything the players can do. Therefore, these things should be top priority.

Truth is, it is gonna be TOUGH to efficiently educate and help new players, especially without proper support from PGI in the form of in-game guides, encyclopedia, and other reference material. But we can do it, and nearly every match I play, I'll try to teach someone something while having tons of fun. (Actually Zolaz, I think I was dropping with you yesterday morning- sorry for the games you may have been in and I didn't lead. I stopped being lazy though )

So, a mostly-offtopic post agreeing with Zolaz. Please do not restrict player choice unless the issue is so desperate that it becomes vitally urger to the game's survival. There MUST be other ways to fix this issue (which I happen to think isn't even an issue.)

As an afterthought, I run a 130kph FS9 and a 130 KPH CDA-3M ECM. I also run a 90 KPH QKD 4H and a 90 KPH Wolverine META VARIANT (forget the one heh).

That's at least two waves of "light rush" I can do to you. Hell, I could reduce some weapons on the QKD and go 100ish KPH. This proposed solution won't even solve the problem at all!

[Mystere]

That's what we get when people cry loudly on the forums instead of ... drum roll please ... L2P.

People know loudly crying on the forums works. So they do it over and over and over and over again ad infinitum.

Frankly, I think it would be better to make the 4-mech limit a maximum, not a requirement. If someone wants to bring 3 80-ton assaults, let them. Two Atlases and a Cicada? Why not?

Might as well also lose the minimum drop weight requirement. If someone wants to bring 4 Locusts, let them.

Edited by Mystere, 18 April 2015 - 10:47 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

I endorse the notion of 1/1/1/1 being bad.

[Chef Kerensky]

1/1/1/1 sounds like a fantastic way to render the tonnage limit completely moot and force both clan and IS players into weight classes that leave them at a massive disadvantage

[Sandersson Jankins]

Mystere, on 18 April 2015 - 10:42 PM, said:

Might as well also lose the minimum drop weight requirement. If someone wants to bring 4 Locusts, let them.

Might be a bit too open for abuse, that one. You'll have jackasses get in 4 locusts to be "ebin trole masters" and ruin it for folks. Unfortunately, while this community is more mature than others I've been in, you must always account for the jackass-factor.

Ideally, I agree. Complete freedom in player choice is my end objective. It also isn't practical. I think the "2 atlas and a cicada" suggestion was good, though. Nothing too abusable about that, and I agree with the principle.

Always picture a slovenly, unemployed, dedicated, neckbearded turbonerd whose sole goal in online games is making other players upset.

You must pit this imaginary person against any concept you intend to implement. Because they WILL be out there, and they are GOOD at exploiting anything.

Edited by Sandersson Jankins, 18 April 2015 - 11:31 PM.

[Benjamin Davion]

Frankly 1/1/1/1 would cause me to lose a lot of interest in CW. I may run that voluntarily a lot, but I also run decks with 2 lights because I can (and frequently do) dish out more kills and damage in a light than most assault pilots. This is supposed to be 'the ultimate vision of war' not 'the ultimate vision of arcade PVP.'

[slide]

Not that I play them or even own them, and would be quite happy to see less of them but.

This would, as we currently stand, nerf clan players. The mechs you see most are, Timberwolves, Hellbringers, and Stormcrows. Heavies and a Medium. Forcing clan players to bring sub-optimal mechs in the light and Assault range would tip the field more in favor of the IS. The fairly standard drop deck of TW,SC,SC,SC with a HB thrown in somewhere would be a thing of the past. Whilst Direwolves are potentially dangerous they get focused fast and I have yet to see one have the same impact on game as a TW does.

Limiting to 1,1,1,1 still doesn't stop light rushes anyway, you would have to limit each wave to 3,3,3,3 like the public queue and then you will get arguments (at least in pugs, units could cope) over who gets to drop in what for each wave. Too Hard IMO.

[Ductus Hase]

Before CW started I thought it would be 1/1/1/1 - I am prepared for that.
Many players won´t be though... especially with the expected influx with a steamrelease the grind needed to reach this goal would drive away quite a few newcomers.

When CW started with min and max tonnage I was and am happy. I got quite a few new mechs in order to build different decks and it is amazing.
With 1/1/1/1 there would be less variety in decks and tactics.



As mentioned above 1/1/1/1 wouldn´t "fix" the lightrush. 3/3/3/3 would... we got this in PQ already, we know the advantages and disadvantages.

Not that this tactic needs more fixing...
Giving Omega more health, establishing O-gens and implementing more turrets is enough.
One might reposition some turrets on some maps... a turret covering a gen makes a great obstacle hindering lights taking out this gen without numbers.

A Lightrush is not a guaranteed victory anymore - it is a tactic - you sacrifice quite a few mechs in order to achieve something.
This rush can be countered and if done so, leaves the attacker with a serious disadvantage - we did so several times with different approaches. We practice the lightrush ourselves - and got countered several times as well.

Same goes for Spawncamping by the way... some players just aren´t using the tools given to them.
If there isn´t a player sabotaging the team on purpose it is impossible to spawncamp successfully on any map but Hellbore:

1st: Take company command.
2nd: Move a dead player to a different lance... spawnpoints are fixed to lances.
3rd: Watch the campers wait for incoming dropships. Don´t forget to poke them once in a while.
4th: Resign Company Command.
5th: Laugh about ppl. calling you cheap for spawncamping.

5th is optional.

In order to execute a successful Lightrush you need to be organized.
In order to counter an organized Lightrush you need to be organized.
VOIP and LFG give us all we need to get organized.

Edited by Ductus Hase, 19 April 2015 - 04:16 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

Ductus Hase, on 19 April 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

In order to execute a successful Lightrush you need to be organized.
In order to counter an organized Lightrush you need to be organized.

In order to execute a successful Lightrush you just need to run for the target(maybe spamming the Space Button whilst your at it) and tear them one by one while hoping the enemy doesn't get you in time.

To counter a Lightrush you need a good composition of mechs, with appropriate speed and weapons, while hoping to catch up with the enemy in time to avoid losing your objectives.

It's compartively harder to counter a Lightrush then to do one. It's a boring and lame tactic which circumsizes the whole fight, it circumsizes the whole *point* of a battle. I can't believe why anyone is honestly *defending* it. It *ruins* every match. There's no fight, just a goose chase after some 130kph+ mechs which blindly shoot the objectives and hope it's enough. There's no challenge in it and, imo, no honor. You're *destroying* CW with it. It's a pain and it's *annoying*.

1/1/1/1 is not a bad idea per se but I don't think people which prefer to drive a certain weight class will like it much. Not everyone is a born assault pilot, not everyone is a born Medium pilot etc..

My idea would be rather that you still need to kill the enemy team, or have the most kills but destroying or defending the objectives, conversely, gives you additional points which count towards the win condition. So each kill is 1 point, destroying an objective is 2 points, and defending an objective is 1 point, e.g..(As it is easier to defend than destroy an objective.)

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 24 April 2015 - 03:10 PM.

[Ductus Hase]

Start believing.

Hope for enemies "hoping the enemy doesn´t get you in time".
Hoping is always nice... to know what you are doing and preparing is more successfull most of the time though.

To counter or execute ANY attack you need a good composition of mechs.

Goosechasing is just one possibility.
If you do not like that, try different approaches - spot, position, focus fire... if you can´t think of any, lightrush yourself and hope for other players to teach you the hard way.

Lightrushing is pretty similar to Lurming.
Looks OP, but isn´t.

[TripleEhBeef]

Let me put it this way.


I don't have an Assault mech.

[Soulstrom]

The issue with 1/1/1/1 is that it would force players to have one of each weight class in their bays. I have friends who only have light mechs or just mediums. Forcing them to get heavy's or assault's to be able to drop into CW might cause some issues.

[InRev]

Or they should just scrap the painfully boring MOBA mode and create something that would actually encourage people to not just stack choke-point mechs and choke-point avoiding lights.

You know, something like a big, expansive map that requires scouting, maneuver, skirmishing etc.

. . .

. . .

But who am I kidding? Enjoy your FPS MOBA with robots.

[Celtic Warrior]

TripleEhBeef, on 19 April 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

Let me put it this way.


I don't have an Assault mech.

I don't have a Clan Assault mech so that would make it hard for me to do CW. I'm not a big fan of piloting assault mechs I prefer maneuverability over brute force. But on the bright side enforcing this would make the need to buy one so I see why PGI wants this.

Edited by Celtic Warrior, 19 April 2015 - 08:37 AM.

[sycocys]

It would probably far more useful to limit each lances first drop weight. Increase the bottom to 200 tons and whichever the top is for your faction -240/250.

That would easily limit teams down 3 mechs on a light rush if they chose to try that, and at the same time it would reduced the full frontal zerg rushes at the start - giving you a much more balance approach at least through the first wave, and should to some extents ripple through the other 3 drops waves to make them more balanced as well.

The one thing that would eliminate light rushing outright is adding objectives that need to be completed/competed on prior to having the ability to end the match. It would also get rid of the majority of the spawn camping. Nearly all of the tech to accomplish this in a variety of ways is already in the game, just need devs with ambition and the desire to actually make the game deeper.

[Spleenslitta]

Pardon me but did Russ suggest i can only have 1 mech from each weightclass in my dropship?

I want to use 3 lights and 1 medium. Not because i want to light rush but because i hate using slowpoke mechs.
Being restricted inside a slow moving bucket of bolts makes me feel like i'm caged. That's not how MWO is supposed to feel.

[Hotthedd]

Zolaz, on 18 April 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

During the town hall Russ stated that 1/1/1/1 was a good alternative to light rushes.

I agree, it isn't. it only assures there can only be ONE light rush

Zolaz, on 18 April 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

Please dont make the most realistic mode of the game (CW) get more arcadey and dumbed down. Give me more options, not less. If I want 2/0/1/1 then give me the option like I have now. Please dont yank the rug out from under me again.

I hate to break it to you, but any mode with in-match respawning is arcade. CW is the LEAST realistic game mode already because of this feature.

[PappySmurf]

The OP is right the more PGI tries to control every aspect of MWO the more players will slip out of there hands and quit playing of uninstall the game.

The Solution to group play is a New MSN gamming zone and the ability to launch matches like we had in MechWarrio4 vengeance and Mercenaries.With league play and all of its freedoms of play types and game modes.

The solution to PGI/MWO CW is simple make it social and player friendly let it just become a playground for anyone that wants to play it in any game mode that is available or group of what ever mechs a player wishes to bring regardless of tonnage.

Or just leave it alone as it is there is nothing greatly flawed with the system now it just lacks players because the game modes are so FINNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG BORING.New game modes would help but once again my words will just land on deaf ears and be forgotten In a few minutes to perhaps 1 whole day.

[Mystere]

Sandersson Jankins, on 18 April 2015 - 11:30 PM, said:

Might be a bit too open for abuse, that one. You'll have jackasses get in 4 locusts to be "ebin trole masters" and ruin it for folks. Unfortunately, while this community is more mature than others I've been in, you must always account for the jackass-factor.

Ideally, I agree. Complete freedom in player choice is my end objective. It also isn't practical. I think the "2 atlas and a cicada" suggestion was good, though. Nothing too abusable about that, and I agree with the principle.

Always picture a slovenly, unemployed, dedicated, neckbearded turbonerd whose sole goal in online games is making other players upset.

You must pit this imaginary person against any concept you intend to implement. Because they WILL be out there, and they are GOOD at exploiting anything.

The basic idea behind my suggestion is to try to break, but without expressly forbidding, the "4-wave" game play that the current drop system encougares.

As for the light "trolls", if they happen often enough, my expectation is that players will get smart enough to realize that they would need to bring light killers. Of course, current experience with light rushes indicate that many players will still just quickly run to the forums and loudly cry like children who dropped their ice cream. PGI should really learn to ignore such people.

(edited for spelling)

Edited by Mystere, 19 April 2015 - 10:17 AM.