84 replies to this topic

[James Pryde IIC]

There are only 2 ways on becomming a Clanner

1.) Mechwarrior 2 was your first ever mech game

2.) Bondsman, then once redeemed / freed test to the warrior caste

[Grimlock]

Stormwolf, on 02 July 2012 - 02:00 PM, said:

Good luck with that:

Clan Smoke Jaguar will never allow freeborns to pilot any mechs.
Clan Jade Falcon gives you a nice civilian job, you will never leave unless your brother comes to save you.
Clan Ghost Bear will kill you on sight if your are a Merc.
Clan Wolf will allow you to join if you are really good.
Clan Nova Cat is a bit more light hearted, but won't show up till 3051.
Clan Steel Viper only allows trueborns into their military.

Horse was a freeborn and of Smoke Jaguar , or am i misstaken

[Thorn Hallis]

Grimlock, on 03 July 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

Horse was a freeborn and of Smoke Jaguar , or am i misstaken

Jade Falcon, and originally posted in a garrision unit - the most a freeborn can hope for in the Falcom touman.

[IronEricP]

Rixx, on 02 July 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

As far as I'm concerned, when this game launches, we are all IS mechwarriors. The only way to become a clanner is to become a bondsman.

And this creates a perfect system to balance the game around. Bondsmen won't have access to premium clan tech from day 1. They'll have to work their way up the chain through a loyalty system (already going to be in place for IS houses). This loyalty will gain them access to higher level clan tech (heavier chassis, more expensive weaponry, etc).

This will give the IS warriors a chance in PvP content. The clanners will have restricted weapons/mechs at the onset of the invasion event.

As clanners level up their loyalty, the average level could be used as a guidepost to IS tech changes. New mechs and weapons could be released to the IS players to help them keep up with the clan tech. Occasionally, clan mechs and weapons could even show up for sale.

This system would help preserve balance of power in the matches. It would also preserve the canon a bit. The clans take pride in fighting larger targets, and of course the entire idea of bondsmen.

The biggest problem with the Bondsman Idea is that the community warfare angle means that if they follow cannon, not all factions would even be ABLE to fight the clans for years to come yet. So they would either have to make the invasion happen from all sides of the IS (something they might need to do since people are clamoring for clans that weren't seen anywhere near the IS for another 10 years, if ever), or ignore all logic and have House Liao fighting Clan Wolf from day one...

[IronEricP]

Grimlock, on 03 July 2012 - 04:08 AM, said:

Horse was a freeborn and of Smoke Jaguar , or am i misstaken

He ends up a bondsman of Smoke Jaguar during the Twilight of the Clans saga. The fact that the Jags let him anywhere NEAR a mech after that is only because the Jag commander was hoody-blue crazy at that point, and it was a huge scandal.

[Thorn Hallis]

Eric Portenelli, on 03 July 2012 - 05:33 AM, said:

The biggest problem with the Bondsman Idea is that the community warfare angle means that if they follow canon, not all factions would even be ABLE to fight the clans for years to come yet.

I don't see anything negative here.

[James Pryde IIC]

like I said in another post, OOC initially when mwo first comes out, with the interface, the Clans will "exist" but just as technically speaking "merc" units, as that is how you can create your own commands I believe. So hence the will be Clans no matter what, as the members will adopt everything Clan, and role play the rest.

or you can role play, that we are fighting before the exodus, or training in inferior spheriod mechs, to further out Prowess

[Hunson Abadeer]

That seems counterintuitive. Role-playing is inherently about the fluff and immersing yourselves in the world. Why would you want to create "faux Clans" and role-play as "faux Clanners" when that flies in the face of the BattleTech universe? Why not just do A until B becomes available without trying to use a magic marker to make A look like B?

JAMESPRYDE, on 03 July 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

like I said in another post, OOC initially when mwo first comes out, with the interface, the Clans will "exist" but just as technically speaking "merc" units, as that is how you can create your own commands I believe. So hence the will be Clans no matter what, as the members will adopt everything Clan, and role play the rest.

or you can role play, that we are fighting before the exodus, or training in inferior spheriod mechs, to further out Prowess

[Hunson Abadeer]

Why not just let the Clanners transfer to the invading Clans as they see fit? Let them sell off all of their Inner Sphere stuff, convert their C-Bills into the Clanner system, and let them all have Bloodnames, OmniMechs, &c.

Just cap games at an Inner Sphere Company (12) versus a Clan Star (5). The Clans were ridiculously overpowered at the start, and the Inner Sphere absolutely should not have access to Clantech immediately. Let the powergamers have all of the munchiness, but make them operate by the original check on Clan power -- being outnumbered. I think this would be the most balanced approach without abandoning canon. Munchkins munch, so the assumption has to be that the Clanners will munch it up as soon as they are able.

Putting a Company (12) against a Binary (10) would not work without weakening the Clantech, or making it available to the Inner Sphere (neither makes canonical sense). Award the Clans based on how much they are outnumbered. They would be guaranteed to earn well in a full match, but they would earn like crazy should they not have a full Star for some reason. Clan technology and 'Mechs should cost A LOT more than Inner Sphere stuff, but they would have the potential to earn A LOT more in turn.

I think that would also help keep things balanced because Clanners will have trouble finding games, if too many people jump from the Sphere to the Clans. That will give people incentive to stay with the Sphere as games would be easier to find.

[An0n3]

Hunson Abadeer, on 03 July 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

Why not just let the Clanners transfer to the invading Clans as they see fit? Let them sell off all of their Inner Sphere stuff, convert their C-Bills into the Clanner system, and let them all have Bloodnames, OmniMechs, &c.

Just cap games at an Inner Sphere Company (12) versus a Clan Star (5). The Clans were ridiculously overpowered at the start, and the Inner Sphere absolutely should not have access to Clantech immediately. Let the powergamers have all of the munchiness, but make them operate by the original check on Clan power -- being outnumbered. I think this would be the most balanced approach without abandoning canon. Munchkins munch, so the assumption has to be that the Clanners will munch it up as soon as they are able.

Putting a Company (12) against a Binary (10) would not work without weakening the Clantech, or making it available to the Inner Sphere (neither makes canonical sense). Award the Clans based on how much they are outnumbered. They would be guaranteed to earn well in a full match, but they would earn like crazy should they not have a full Star for some reason. Clan technology and 'Mechs should cost A LOT more than Inner Sphere stuff, but they would have the potential to earn A LOT more in turn.

I think that would also help keep things balanced because Clanners will have trouble finding games, if too many people jump from the Sphere to the Clans. That will give people incentive to stay with the Sphere as games would be easier to find.

Anything that creates an issue where people will have trouble getting into games is stricken outright. Not everyone is a fan of the fluff or will understand why the heck they keep getting matched up 5 v 12 because they wanted to be in the units with the cool looking animals on their emblems. You have to keep in mind for all this cool backstory there's going to be a sizeable portion of people who just want to blast stuff with big robots and have no idea why such and such a mechanic is in place. While it's neat that the change appeases our need for story and immersion, it only detracts from the gameplay experience.

I know it may be disheartening for some, but remember that this is an MMO game...not a movie or a book. It has to function well for everyone first, story comes second. It's rare to find a game that switches those up, but still ends up being well received. Killer 7, Heavy Rain, LA Noire and some others come to mind.

I hope I don't come off as just trashing your idea because that's not how I feel at all. The numbers game, pitting more IS players against Clan per match, has been brought up before and (depending on how the tech balances out) could very well solve the problem. We'd still have an issue trying to figure out just who gets to pilot what though...maybe just as simple as readying up in a clan mech (or with enough clan tech in your mech) puts you on the Clan team?|

Between all of us discussing it, we'll probably end up guessing the right answer...which is kinda exciting.

Edited by An0n3, 03 July 2012 - 11:23 AM.

[Hunson Abadeer]

I think you just made the exact argument for setting the game during the 4th Succession War and ignoring the Clans altogether. There is no way to balance the Clans without really fudging EVERYTHING. Clantech is so overpowered that it would have to be scaled back by a rather large amount to make a 12-on-10 model even feasible. The 35-ton Adder has the same BV as the 100-ton AS7-D.

It seems like it takes a lot of overly complicated nuance to make even teams possible. Clan Lights can match Inner Sphere Assaults in BV. It would take A LOT of nerfing to even the two sides out, which would ruin the entire invasion. If the Clanners aren't nerfed and still get to field Binaries, Inner Sphere players won't stand a chance and will get turned off pretty quickly. IS players will also be forced to only use Assaults just to try to compete.

This would be like Modern Warfare 3 allowing some people to permanently be Osprey Gunners, but then saying that they still get to have a full team. It seems misguided to "balance" it by making the Ospreys' bullets hurt less. Why not just leave the Ospreys out, or cap how many people get to be on the Osprey team?

The game play angle works in the other direction as well. I would hazard a guess that for every person that only knows the MechWarrior video games there is at least one person that waged war on the tabletop. Gutting the universe to let the munchkins relive their glory days of MW2 would be a huge turnoff for me. The Clans are supposed to be small and yet overpowered, so I would be happy with the 12-on-5 model and only allowing the original invading Clans to concentrate the Clanners. But I don't get to make any decisions, so it is what it is.

An0n3, on 03 July 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

Anything that creates an issue where people will have trouble getting into games is stricken outright. Not everyone is a fan of the fluff or will understand why the heck they keep getting matched up 5 v 12 because they wanted to be in the units with the cool looking animals on their emblems. You have to keep in mind for all this cool backstory there's going to be a sizeable portion of people who just want to blast stuff with big robots and have no idea why such and such a mechanic is in place. While it's neat that the change appeases our need for story and immersion, it only detracts from the gameplay experience.

[An0n3]

^Well said.

I just keep coming back to the PvE element as a way of balancing out the invasion. Think of this:

Upto 8-12 players can form a team for an "Invasion" gameplay mode. In it, the IS-equipped players must hold a point from increasing waves of Clan mechs. A lot of like horde mode/survival, basically, with an objective to protect as well as your own lives. The waves start out with scout mechs arriving first, piloted by weaker AI's. As the waves are cleared, larger mechs with harder AI's start showing up, until you're facing waves of hardcore Clan assault mechs stomping you in. You're bound to lose, it's a matter of how long you can hold them off and how many you can destroy during your last stand.

As a reward, players will be given salvage depending on how many waves they survived, how intact the objective was, and what they killed. This gets clan mechs and technology into the hands of everyone, but makes them earn it first.

[Gremlich Johns]

Arafinar, on 02 July 2012 - 01:02 PM, said:

What about just removing half your brain and have a scewed set of battle tactics?

Cretin

and the term is Clansman. If you say "clanner", you are woefullty ignorant and obviously an Inner Sphere loser.

prepare to be bondsref.

[Arafinar]

Gremlich Johns, on 03 July 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Cretin

and the term is Clansman. If you say "clanner", you are woefullty ignorant and obviously an Inner Sphere loser.

prepare to be bondsref.

excuse me? who the hell are you talking to? Didnt mention clanner anywhere.
oh I guess the loss of half a brain makes a difference.......

[Hunson Abadeer]

That is such a Clanner thing to say. I challenge you to hippity dippity gobbledygoo.

Gremlich Johns, on 03 July 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Cretin

and the term is Clansman. If you say "clanner", you are woefullty ignorant and obviously an Inner Sphere loser.

prepare to be bondsref.

[Kribson]

Gremlich Johns, on 03 July 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

Cretin

and the term is Clansman. If you say "clanner", you are woefullty ignorant and obviously an Inner Sphere loser.

prepare to be bondsref.

keep my topic clean of this kind of childish crap, please. Obviously everbody knew what was meant with the word "clanner". If you want others to use a politically correct expression, tell it in a politically correct way. Thank you

Edited by Kribson, 04 July 2012 - 04:47 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Kribson, on 04 July 2012 - 04:45 AM, said:

keep my topic clean of this kind of childish crap, please. Obviously everbody knew what was meant with the word "clanner". If you want others to use a politically correct expression, tell it in a politically correct way. Thank you

fair enuf:

the term is Clansman. If you say "clanner", you are obviously an Inner Sphere oriented loser player.

prepare to be bondsref.

[An0n3]

Less immature posturing over made-up cultures, please. More theorycraft.

[Kribson]

Gremlich Johns, on 04 July 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

fair enuf:

the term is Clansman. If you say "clanner", you are obviously an Inner Sphere oriented loser player.

prepare to be bondsref.

Thanks...it seems you clansmen will be some honorable oponents...welcome to the inner sphere

[Hunson Abadeer]

Kribson, on 05 July 2012 - 05:06 AM, said:

Thanks...it seems you Clanners will be some "honorable" opponents...welcome to your doom.

Fixed that for you.