31 replies to this topic

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Potential Use Of 3Rd Party Programs

Spoiler

Greetings MechWarriors,

There has been renewed discussion as of late regarding the potential use of 3^rd-party programs in an attempt to gain a dishonorable advantage against other players. As with any online game, there is of course always the potential for these kinds of tools to be used.

We want to make it clear that we have the ability to investigate and evaluate each of these potential cases and take appropriate action. These tools are detectable, and we will take all sufficient actions to prevent their use and suspend the accounts in question. In cases where a player may use such tools only on a throwaway account, those players will similarly expose their main accounts to the same moderation actions.

Renewed work toward systems that will further address these tools and their users is actively underway.

We also want to reiterate that the discussion and proliferation of these tools through any of the Piranha Games and MechWarrior Online services constitutes a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be subject to appropriate moderation.

I noticed this post made by CM Tina, and I started wondering what is considered a prohibited program? I was hoping for a little clarification on what is allowed since announcing disallowed software would be counterproductive. In the past a number of 3^rd party applications were allowed, and I wanted to verify whether or not these are still allowed.

3^rd party VOIP – teamspeak, mumble, skype, ventrillo, etc.
Macro Software – those included with multi-function mice, keyboards, and game pads. Additionally dedicated macro applications like AutoHotKey and others.
Drivers/Shaders – like SweetFX
Live streaming sites - such as Twitch.tv which offer real-time tactical information to an opponent (probably more of a concern when spectator mode is available and more $$$ events occur).

[warner2]

I think it's safe to say those are allowed

[Kristov Kerensky]

That would be the hacks you can buy from various online sites I would imagine.

[cSand]

I think those will all be OK

I hope they get it done soon cause getting gaussed from well out of visible range by 3 guys at the same time is ridiculous

IMO macro programs should be on there too

but.... nublets need some kind of a crutch I guess

plus there' edge case of a guy who actually has only 1 finger or something

[EgoSlayer]

If it modifies the game files other than what has been approved (e.g. user.cfg) it's a certainty it's not allowed. And SweetFX can be tuned to give unfair advantage and is specifically called out in the FAQ as something that can be an issue:

http://mwomercs.com/...wo-game-client/

Quote

Q: May I use graphical enhancements through third-party applications, such as SweetFX or other CBar modifiers to enhance my graphical performance?

A: We do not encourage the use of these types of modifications and in particular should we detect the use of any modification that does any of the following we reserve the right to suspend/ban the account responsible.

a) Alters visibility significantly from the original product to gain unfair tactical advantages
b ) Changes game assets sounds, models, or maps, to gain tactical advantages
c) Attempts to circumvent the map selection process
d) Exploits bugs or existing game mechanics

Since SweetFX can remove fog, cause mechs to glow anywhere on the map, and do other things that provide an unfair advantage, you are taking a chance with your account using it.

[Mister Blastman]

EgoSlayer, on 27 April 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Since SweetFX can remove fog, cause mechs to glow anywhere on the map, and do other things that provide an unfair advantage, you are taking a chance with your account using it.

SweetFX can't remove fog or make 'mechs glow. What on Earth are you talking about?

I use it all the time with Dosbox to help make it look like a CRT. What SweetFX DOES do is post processing stuff on the image after the fact. It doesn't single out items in the Direct 3D pipeline and selectively remove them nor apply an effect to a particular item.

At least, to my knowledge this is all it does.

This is SweetFX in dosbox:


It isn't like ENB Series which is completely different. ENB Series actually modifies 3D stuff but to my knowledge ENB is high specialized and only works with stuff it is coded for.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 27 April 2015 - 01:30 PM.

[Raggedyman]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 27 April 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

3^rd party VOIP – teamspeak, mumble, skype, ventrillo, etc.
Macro Software – those included with multi-function mice, keyboards, and game pads. Additionally dedicated macro applications like AutoHotKey and others.
Drivers/Shaders – like SweetFX
Live streaming sites - such as Twitch.tv which offer real-time tactical information to an opponent (probably more of a concern when spectator mode is available and more $$$ events occur).

VOIP - possibly a very tenuous unfair advantage before the game had it built into it, now possibly actually a negative as it would very slightly use more system resources and bandwidth. basically fine
Drivers - you need them to run the game. as long as they don't have a 'look through the walls' feature you're fine. If they do then turn off that option.
Live streaming - if someone is live streaming then they are giving out their information of their own choice. Basically a more efficient way of someone going "I'm over here!!" in chat so fine.

MacroSoftware - Depends, really really depends. Macro's can do a hell of a lot of things and can be programmed to be very smart. The key here isn't to ask what software type is or isn't dodgy but to focus on the words "dishonorable advantage". Basically if it's trying to circumvent a restrictive game mechanic or makes you go "oh boy, people would be really pissed if they knew I was doing this!" then the chances are you shouldn't. VOIP is a great example of this, as it wasn't trying to get around a game mechanic (VOIP simply hadn't been put into the game) and people wern't going "ooooh, you scummer. that's cheaty" about it.

End of the day though its a PGI decision, and because if people get a solid response they will try and edge it for all the advantage they can you will only ever really get a "this is totally fine, whilst this is totally not" with the grey area explained as "no dishonourable advantage"

[EgoSlayer]

Mister Blastman, on 27 April 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

SweetFX can't remove fog or make 'mechs glow. What on Earth are you talking about?

I use it all the time with Dosbox to help make it look like a CRT. What SweetFX DOES do is post processing stuff on the image after the fact. It doesn't single out items in the Direct 3D pipeline and selectively remove them nor apply an effect to a particular item.

At least, to my knowledge this is all it does.

It can do that and lots of other things - just requires the right tweaks to the config files.

http://mwomercs.com/...48#entry2474148

[Dark Jackal]

Net Limiter

[Mister Blastman]

EgoSlayer, on 27 April 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

It can do that and lots of other things - just requires the right tweaks to the config files.

http://mwomercs.com/...48#entry2474148

Did you even look at those screenshots that Koniving linked to?

There is zero reduction in fog opacity. The color and lighting changed, but the opacity remained the same. Neither mode (vanilla or ENB) seemed to visually make things easier to see.

I'd love to see some shots of 'mechs glowing or fog completely removed. I don't believe it can happen until I see it. My knowledge of SweetFX--I have a little given all the hours upon hours I've spent tweaking it for Dosbox, well, sees it as a post processing graphics modifier rather than in-game assets in the rendering pipeline.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 27 April 2015 - 01:46 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

Mister Blastman, on 27 April 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Did you even look at those screenshots that Koniving linked to?

There is zero reduction in fog opacity. The color and lighting changed, but the opacity remained the same. Neither mode (vanilla or ENB) seemed to visually make things easier to see.

I'd love to see some shots of 'mechs glowing or fog completely removed. I don't believe it can happen until I see it. My knowledge of SweetFX--I have a little given all the hours upon hours I've spent tweaking it for Dosbox, well, sees it as a post processing graphics modifier rather than in-game assets in the rendering pipeline.

Did you even read the note? All the links that show hacks have been removed, they are ToS violations so you won't find the links here and nobody in their right mind is going to post them. But even in those shots that remain you can see there is nearly zero haze.

[Mister Blastman]

EgoSlayer, on 27 April 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

Did you even read the note? All the links that show hacks have been removed, they are ToS violations so you won't find the links here and nobody in their right mind is going to post them. But even in those shots that remain you can see there is nearly zero haze.

Yeah, I read it. What I saw is people putting custom shaders into their files among other things to cheat. THAT is a cheat plain and simple. A really dirty one at that.

But SweetFX by itself is pretty harmless. It can't remove fog man, I don't know what else to say. I didn't see any reduction of it in those shots.

[Summon3r]

interesting.... I thought i had noticed a couple of odd happenings over the last 2 months but chalked up to complete and absolute dumb luck...

though i wonder an i wish i had a SS of being shot only in the head while moving twice and then have my lance mate say over comms WTF!! i just got headed as i came around the corner. this seemed extremely lucky but we chalked it up to pure luck and carried, couple days later camea cross a cpl players who litterally "seemed" to have DWF's that took next to no dmg from anything.... again we chalked it up to lag or what ever it may..... but this post from TIna is interesting and a little disheartening.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Theres a gamma program out there that makes the night maps like day maps but Ive never gotten a ruling of in its a no no or not

[Koniving]

EgoSlayer, on 27 April 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

It can do that and lots of other things - just requires the right tweaks to the config files.

http://mwomercs.com/...48#entry2474148

Mister Blastman, on 27 April 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Did you even look at those screenshots that Koniving linked to?

There is zero reduction in fog opacity. The color and lighting changed, but the opacity remained the same. Neither mode (vanilla or ENB) seemed to visually make things easier to see.

Actually the change occurs on Forest Colony Snow's screenshots on the first link, last spoiler.
It's also what targeted the attack and removal of the files.

The ENB is what enables the removal of fog, not Sweet FX itself.

I personally use ENB a lot on Skyrim and I'm figuring out how to use it on Fallout. One of my favorite features is enhancing and removing fog at will.

[Lily from animove]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 27 April 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

Live streaming sites - such as Twitch.tv which offer real-time tactical information to an opponent (probably more of a concern when spectator mode is available and more $$$ events occur).

lol, yeha someone may just adjust his stream to have a delay, rofl.

[Mister Blastman]

Koniving, on 27 April 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

Actually the change occurs on Forest Colony Snow's screenshots on the first link, last spoiler.
It's also what targeted the attack and removal of the files.

The ENB is what enables the removal of fog, not Sweet FX itself.

I personally use ENB a lot on Skyrim and I'm figuring out how to use it on Fallout. One of my favorite features is enhancing and removing fog at will.

The only thing I notice on the Forest Colony screenshot aside from color shift is that white spot in the middle beyond the tower. I can only assume that is far off in the distance but I'm not really sure without 'mechs on it to know if it makes a difference or not.

Otherwise the fog looks the same to me.

SweetFX is nice in other games. I've not used it much outside of Dosbox though and for a mild color shift and sharpening of the image in MWO (which is just post-processing). ENB I've used in GTA San Andreas and it makes a gigantic difference, same with Deus Ex.

If someone has truly figured out a way to remove the fog altogether then they should be dealt with quickly and severely (as well those modifying the texture files etc.)

[Ghogiel]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 27 April 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Theres a gamma program out there that makes the night maps like day maps but Ive never gotten a ruling of in its a no no or not

I used to just press escape, options and turn gamma all the way up. But they disabled that option.

dunno why anyone is downloading a program to change gamma, you can usually just do it on the monitor.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Well there's something out there. Today on HPG Manifold, I'm in a 6 ERL Stalker facing off against a dual guass Jager at around 600 meters. 4 alpha's to his center torso and he just keeps popping back up to fire again (and my ping is 40). Normally I would brush it off to his bad latency or bad hit reg, but his attitude was out of place - who takes 216 damage from a Stalker and keeps rolling back up for more facetime with it? Someone who knows they are immune, that's who.

Am not worried. Truth always outs. If you are hacking, its not matter of *if* you get caught, just when.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 27 April 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Fenrisulvyn, on 27 April 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Well there's something out there. Today on HPG Manifold, I'm in a 6 ERL Stalker facing off against a dual guass Jager at around 600 meters. 4 alpha's to his center torso and he just keeps popping back up to fire again (and my ping is 40). Normally I would brush it off to his bad latency or bad hit reg, but his attitude was out of place - who takes 216 damage from a Stalker and keeps rolling back up for more facetime with it? Someone who knows they are immune, that's who.

Am not worried. Truth always outs. If you are hacking, its not matter of *if* you get caught, just when.

HPG manifold has ridiculous hitbox issues with the terrain. You can't hit anything right along the edges of higher ledges if they are looking down on you. You have to aim several pixels higher away from it for the beam/weapon/etc. to go up and over it to do any damage.