64 replies to this topic

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Fix Heat Scale by lowering total amount of heat.
Make SHS up total heat scale from the new amount, make DHS 2.0 dissipation.

Make it so Gauss Rifles can only fire one at a time.
Increase long range weapon cooldowns by 1 second each.

[Joseph Mallan]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 28 April 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Fix Heat Scale by lowering total amount of heat.
Make SHS up total heat scale from the new amount, make DHS 2.0 dissipation.

Make it so Gauss Rifles can only fire one at a time.
Increase long range weapon cooldowns by 1 second each.

I can get behind all of these except Gauss. Take away the pin point and what problem is there in a 45 point alpha?

[MrZakalwe]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

I can get behind all of these except Gauss. Take away the pin point and what problem is there in a 45 point alpha?

The problem is a game where people can't really aim.

Personally I'd like to see longer laser burns to make spreading more of a thing, most ballistics and non quirked PPCs are already largely in the hands of the target as to where they get hit.

[Dolph Hoskins]

MrZakalwe, on 28 April 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

The problem is a game where people can't really aim.

Personally I'd like to see longer laser burns to make spreading more of a thing

Looonger laser burns???
The clan erll already feels like you're shooting a water hose at your enemies from a bipedal fire engine.

Edited by The Ripper13, 28 April 2015 - 10:53 AM.

[Gyrok]

happy mech, on 28 April 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

gauss will need to be looked at again at some point

large lasers are more heat efficient than medium lasers, also quirked a lot
some mechs have only lasers and missiles, and not all missiles are useful for direct fire or long range
however, IS cannot compete currently vs the clans if not for the blue lasers, so setting a fixed heat cap to prevent alphas on both sides and then forcing clans to use something other than energy boats will make you see less blue lasers

How about fix the crappy weapon systems for clans...? (i.e. everything not named lasers or gauss)

[Burktross]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

To date, TT players are trying to disprove that the Medium Laser is the hands down best weapon ever. Been going on for the (almost) 14 years I've been a HeavyMetalPro member.


OR we need to get rid of or reduce heat quirks!

But I happen to like to see weapons being fired when I'm fighting so I'm not one to support this line of thinking.

So what you're saying is...
Medium pulse laser...

[Joseph Mallan]

MrZakalwe, on 28 April 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

The problem is a game where people can't really aim.

Personally I'd like to see longer laser burns to make spreading more of a thing, most ballistics and non quirked PPCs are already largely in the hands of the target as to where they get hit.

More like that they cannot accept they cannot really aim. It's the I should always hit what I aim at group in general that tickle my trigger finger.

Burktross, on 28 April 2015 - 10:55 AM, said:

So what you're saying is...
Medium pulse laser...

ton for ton the medium is better. This is Inner Sphere Tech remember.

[Burktross]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 April 2015 - 10:59 AM, said:

More like that they cannot accept they cannot really aim. It's the I should always hit what I aim at group in general that tickle my trigger finger.


ton for ton the medium is better. This is Inner Sphere Tech remember.

I still stick by my medium pulses! Need that "to hit" lower!

[Alex Morgaine]

Want variety? Tbh, stock mode. Just gonna have to deal with Flanders, mg, and lrms, oh and no ecm(except, what, 1 IS and 3 or 4 clan?), but that's what you pay for variety. choose we also would need to adjust clan numbers to 5 or 10 man, a bidding system, long term customization options for battlemechs, infantry and vehicles, and later(or sooner for clan) power armor units...

/I'llbeinmybunk

[Rebas Kradd]

Khobai, on 28 April 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

I remember tabletop being gauss, ppcs, and medium lasers... all the other weapons in TT are useless.

So basically MW4 on paper.

[Alex Morgaine]

Heh Flanders. Stupid flaming Flanders.

[Alex Morgaine]

Kh0rn, on 28 April 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

I had a system call hard point restriction size where is if the mech had a med laser in that arm it could only fit the max a medium too small laser other wise the energy feeds would overload as the rigging was not set too handle a larger energy type. Same for all other types of weapons.

Could you swap two IS meds for an IS large laser? This system would have to work for upscale too; by default it'd restrict ballistics with machine guns to ac2s so you'd get rid of gauss/ac20 mechs Unless they boated every slot.even a single ac5 would need 4mg or ac2s.otherwise I'd be easier to say stock mode/sl/mg/srm2 spam mode

[happy mech]

Frosty Brand, on 28 April 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Could you swap two IS meds for an IS large laser? This system would have to work for upscale too; by default it'd restrict ballistics with machine guns to ac2s so you'd get rid of gauss/ac20 mechs Unless they boated every slot.even a single ac5 would need 4mg or ac2s.otherwise I'd be easier to say stock mode/sl/mg/srm2 spam mode

jagermech with 10 machineguns

[Mar-X-maN]

Alistair Winter, on 28 April 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

Yes, there's always going to be a status quo, as long as the game doesn't change every day. This line of reasoning is right out of Russ Bullock's mouth, but it ultimately makes very little sense. The fact that some metagame will always establish itself, or that competitive players will always look for the best mech, no matter how little edge it provides, is no excuse to keep working towards that goal.

And frankly, the metagame right now is as low skill as it's ever been. Even AC40 Jagerbombs, SRM Splatcats and poptarts required more skill than boating lasers.

Ideally, the metagame should encourage synergy between 2 or 3 different weapon categories (energy, missile, ballistic), as almost all mechs in this game have the capacity to carry 2 or 3 different weapon categories, and indeed come with those weapon stock. Laserboats and ballistic boats and missile boats, which carry only a single category of weapon (e.g. lasers) or even one specific type of weapon (e.g. MPLs) should be rather unique variants, that are quirked to be effective despite the lack of quirks. PPC boats shouldn't the norm, but the AWS-8Q should be quirked to make PPC boating work, for example.

But PGI has taken the opposite approach. The Thunderbolt with its iconic PPC and missile launcher is just an MPL boat. The Stalker with its combination of missiles and lasers is just a LL boat. Even the Timber Wolf, arguably the most iconic mech in the MW series, is normally seen just boating lasers.

Encouraging people to rely on different weapon groups means that it requires more skill to effectively use meta-builds. That's the way it should be. But right now, balanced builds are regarded as some "hardcore mode" for TT enthusiasts, while most people just boat lasers. It's the opposite of good game design.

Thank you for calling me hardcore. But this is exactly how I build my mechs, because I believe this is how it should work and also because I want my mechs to look like how they are supposed to look like.

Needless to say that even the overall friendly units I played with did not appreciate this much. They also do not appreciate my Hotas. But people have no idea how awesome it feels to play MWO with a Hotas.

[El Bandito]

happy mech, on 28 April 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

gauss will need to be looked at again at some point

large lasers are more heat efficient than medium lasers, also quirked a lot

That's cause regular Large Laser is pretty mediocre. 5 tons for 9 damage vs. 1 ton for 5 damage. If PGI made it less sucky then we wouldn't need mega quirks to allow it to compete.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 April 2015 - 05:48 PM.

[Beastbear]

Almond Brown, on 28 April 2015 - 08:03 AM, said:

Hate to say this but ALL Energy weapons in MWO need to have their HEAT doubled (2X) if not 3X.

TT/BT 10 seconds to "unload everything". Alpha or not.

MWO "unload everything" 3.3X in 10 seconds (ML's as per example). Is there actually anything but the "Alpha Button" in MWO anymore?

Yeah, because we all want to be neck deep in king crabs, dragons, direwales timbergods and hellbringers that can still ignore heat with high ballistic alpha's.

As much as everyone around here hates it, besides ghost heat there isn't really a system that cant be gamed or doesn't advantage ballistic builds. Heck before they decoupled gauss and gave it charge it even beat that....... Lowering heat cap wont do it if you up dissipation (but it probably does needs lowering, maybe 1point per hs no matter the type?) oh and quirks need around a 1/3 reduction across the board, especially where heat reductions are concerned.

Edited by Beastbear, 28 April 2015 - 06:09 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Metas are a funny thing. As soon as you slap one down, a new one pops back up in its place. I recall a time when it was LLs, ERLLs, PPCs, and ERPPCs. Too many people whined about them, so they all got nerfed. Then it was Gauss. That got nerfed. Then it was PPCs and Ballistics. That got nerfed. For a short while, LRMs were meta until they got nerfed. Then it was Gauss and PPCs again. That got nerfed again. Now it's laser vomit, with particular preference to LLs.

Hey, would you look at that? We've come full circle!

Get over it people. No matter what PGI does, they can't stop a meta from forming. It's inevitable. As long as there is one gamer left alive who will sit down and put in the time and math to find the most effective build, then there will be meta. Instead of wringing your hands over it and crying for more nerfs, just do what I do and IGNORE it. Play what you want to play and enjoy the game. It's just that simple. Let the meta nuts do their thing and you do yours. It's just not worth spinning the nerf wheel over and over such that every few months the entire game dynamics shift. Learn to accept the inevitability of the meta and move on with your game life. You'll relax a lot more, have a lot more fun, and won't cause headaches for the rest of us who are actually enjoying ourselves and don't want to re-learn or re-kit weapons and builds every couple of months.

[Throat Punch]

Khobai, on 28 April 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

I remember tabletop being gauss, ppcs, and medium lasers... all the other weapons in TT are useless.

MG's were brutal in TT too, at least they were on the mechs my wife ran against me.

[Kain Demos]

In other words the best weapons in Battletech continue to be the best weapons in battletech.

[Khobai]

Quote

In other words the best weapons in Battletech continue to be the best weapons in battletech.

war never changes