75 replies to this topic

[Alan Hicks]

I´ve just had it with CW, how can pugs stand against each of the top units of each clan or house ?
Seriously, it is just too unfair. Games like that just hit the top of everyones frustration levels.

As far as I see it I used to think regular games were not fair, but now almost everytime I do them, they are totally relaxing compared to CW or merely disastrous, as MWO matching is currently set. For now I see normal games as practice mode and CW matches as the serious or difficult mode.

Community Warfare could give a step further.

So I here propose that each an every top unit should ONLY play with other top units. People will sitll be able to stand against second to best units in normal CW matches. But if a unit leads the top of their house or clan, then it will automatically classify against timed and regular matches with other top units.

There would be a new level to CW organized groups that would require even more skill and coordination. That may be even more appealing for everyone.

If they are skilled and organized players who like abusing pugs, noobs or casual players everyday, this will be a benefit to the experienced, organized and skillful and to the casual non-experienced.. I´ve played games with pugs or organized units and let´s face it, is not just boring when the opponent just does not have the skill or group coordination to deliver a good game?

PGI should enhance the CW mode and give yet another incentive to top units. If they are that good, let the fight each other to even better their skills. Good prizes or benefits should be offered too and from time to time they should have their own events and claim periodically the best unit rank.

[NGxT]

This has been tried with the 12 man group queue. It was a barren wasteland where you would get no games or the same opponent over and over.

[xX PUG Xx]

Sorry but i don't think penalising the best players/groups in the gamemode designed for groups to play in is going to cut it. You complain that you think it is "unfair" that you choose to play solo in the group focussed section of the game but believe it is "fair" to further segregate those groups because they have committed time and energy to becoming good?

Sorry but i see that as a little hypocritical.

Do i think ALL game modes should be incorporated into a tiered Community Warfare experience?

Yes i do.

However for now those solo players that don't want to join a unit, play in groups or even listen to advice from teammates in CW have the Solo queue. Which was segregated from the big bad groups to allow them to do just what they want to and still have a minor chance of winning.

I personally have no problem playing solo in CW and often try to coordinate with the other solos or simply follow the lead of a group if there is one. Sometimes i'm on the winning side, sometimes i'm on the loosing side; do i blame everyone else for me being on the loosing side?

No, i try harder the next time around.

[ShadedWulfe]

There needs to be something to encourage Newer units to continue playing CW, ignoring the problem just because you considering yourself good is just as hyprocritical, I don't have a solution, But the Fact you have people like me and my friends all coming back to the game and then Just get Crushed time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time and time again because we get outmatched by people who ONLY play this game isn't Fair or an encouraging enviroment, How would you expect anyone to stay.

Like I said I don't have a solution, but there is currently no system in place to encourage and keep new units, small or big to keep playing, other than their own sheer will to get over that frustration.

I think one fix could be some sort of drop limit, so you can't just SPAM one unit type.

[sycocys]

Well the first thing I suggested after my very first CW drop was to have the first lance weight restricted to 240 tons.

The second thing I suggested was adding multiple objectives.

Neither thing would change the skill difference, but it would give lesser skilled units and pugs a much better feeling of immersion into the mode win or lose. That's the big thing CW is missing - totally misses the opportunity to add any immersion to the game.

[xX PUG Xx]

ShadedWulfe, on 28 April 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

There needs to be something to encourage Newer units to continue playing CW, ignoring the problem just because you considering yourself good is just as hyprocritical.

Do i consider myself to be good?

No, especially not in comparison to some of the people i have had the pleasure of playing with (and horror of playing against). I consider myself to be decidedly average, only slightly better than 50/50 on wins according to the stats page and hovering around 1.05 kdr.

What i do consider myself is stubborn, i enjoy the game too much to just give up.

I do agree the whole CW experience needs to be fleshed out, the introduction of 4 vs 4 scout type missions is another step in the right direction but only a single step. The whole background "meta" game is also missing, Kay Wolf has some great ideas (as well as other posters) and i believe the design focus of the game maps need to be revisited.

But these things don't offer up segregating groups of players for being good (ok VERY good), further penalising their ability to play together and probably to the point that wait times for games would drive them away from the game altogether.

The whole game, the full Mechwarrior Online experience, should be geared toward "Community Warfare". Every battle from a Solo queue Conquest match to a 12 'Mech (NOT 12 man, i know some very good female pilots) planetary invasions, backed up by logistic chains and in the long run even some solo/co-op PVE missions.

Everything should be geared towards "including" the whole of the playerbase, not dividing us into smaller and smaller segments.

Anyway, sorry that turned into a bit of a rant... just a little of my opinion.

[Mystere]

People talk as if they face elite 12-mans, and nothing but elite 12-mans, in each and every match they play.

[xX PUG Xx]

Mystere, on 28 April 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

People talk as if they face elite 12-mans, and nothing but elite 12-mans, in each and every match they play.

Exactly, the vast majority of CW drops during this event have been mash ups of solos, small to medium sized groups and the odd full premade. However even premades can lose, they are not the boogey man and their 'Mechs aren't carrying some secret weapon.

[Void Angel]

When people report that their sense of futility is overriding their enjoyment of the game, having to admit that stubbornness plays a role in your continuing play might cause them to question if you've understood them. It's not a simple "choice" to be or not be a member of a top-tier team, either. If you want to be good, you have to practice, study the game, practice, experiment with new things, and practice some more - and even then you have to have a high degree of natural talent if you want to hang with the very best. And that's if you've been around long enough to try to do all that - a new player who's trying out community warfare for the first time will be overwhelmed by experienced PuGs, much less by even the most mediocre of organized teams. You're quite right that segregating the playerbase isn't a good answer. But the problem is still valid even if some of the proposed solutions are wrong.

In point of fact, PGI is moving toward a tiered approach to CW - they currently plan to implement a 4v4 scouting mode, details to be determined. They're thinking about having these matches be reconnaissance missions which will then allow the affected planets to be attacked once a faction has enough information on its defenses. They're also looking into ways to differentiate House (or Space Naz Clan) loyalists from Mercenaries in the way the access CW. So, PGI does know that some people aren't having fun, and they're working to give people different ways and means to access CW game modes that will make it easier to avoid getting rofflepwned by large organizations.

So take heart! There are at least changes coming down the pike for CW, and PGI understands that more variety at the least is needed for the game mode to be really fleshed out. Also remember that this is a true beta CW, and that many, many things can change before they declare it finished.

PS: I find it amusing - though probably not indicative of anything - that many people here with complaints are Adjective Animals in their forum tags. The reason is that Inner Sphere PuG play is even worse than Clans, because the game conditions people to play into the Clans' relative strengths. But as I said, that's not really relevant to anyone's reasoning, and the coincidence may be just that. Just food for thought if you've only played PuG CW as a Clan Mechwarrior.

[SuomiWarder]

I think private leagues should be the main place for the high level team v team action. The general game has to be accessible to the masses or there will be no game.

[Dracol]

ShadedWulfe, on 28 April 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

There needs to be something to encourage Newer units to continue playing CW,

Encouragement for new units ya need? what about their drive to practice and become the best unit in CW? Is that not drive enough?

If not, what about just bettering oneself and learning new tactics? Cause you;ll learn that only fighting a better opponent.

U say u get crushed time and time again, why is that? are you tactics not up to par? Are you dropping an 8 man v a 12 man and not communicating with your pugs?

Is this happening in CW or public group queue? Cause if its in CW, then I will let you in on a little secret, CW has no MM.

If it is happening in public group queue, one of two things could be happening, First, your group's elo is artificially inflated by a Superior ally, Second, you could be profiecient puggers, but lack skills to survive in group queue. Pug pilots require a differant skill set than group pilots. Perfect example: Raven 3L pilots. In solo queue they can go off an snip and still be a force to recon with. In group queue though, their ecm to shield friendlies is more important then them running off and snipping on their own.

If it is happening in CW, let me ask you this.... are you surviving in your mech long after the others in your wave have died? then you are not sharing the damage. Is nobody taking command of your drops? Then you will be out performed by those who choose to utilize the tools at hand and help guide those they drop with.

[CLAN MONKEY]

Playing better players and units gives you the perfect opportunity to learn, adapt and better yourself. Tactics, mechs, weapons

I'm learning a hell of a lot!

Nothing is given for free you need to earn it and put the effort in. If you don't like pugs get organized, make the effort to join a clan/guild/unit. That's what I'm doing, finding like minded people to drop with.

Hats off to the top units, they rofl stomp us as they have worked hard to be the best.

[Major Lag]

NGRT, on 28 April 2015 - 03:43 PM, said:

This has been tried with the 12 man group queue. It was a barren wasteland where you would get no games or the same opponent over and over.

This is exactly what the unit guys should keep in mind when they start their litany about "get better, join a unit, it's a game designed for teams" whenever PUG (as in potential users gaming) complain about frustrating CW experience when their PUG team (partly maybe even using trial mechs) is put against a 10 or worde 12 premade.And that is why PGI ABSOLUTELY NEEDS to rework matchmaking in CW: Get players interested in and liking this game mode and not to drive them away even more quickly than by the regular steep learning curve of the game in general.

[kesmai]

Wasn't CW "endgame" and supposed to be unit based?
please correct me if I'm wrong.

never thought of it as a playground for ragtag pick up groups or solo players. There are hundreds of units out there, the majority of them are good folks. I see no reason not to join a unit and broaden you experience.



yes there are better and less good units, isn't that part of every game?

Edited by kesmai, 29 April 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[Molossian Dog]

Just provide targets of different value. The idea is not new.

Each player and each group has the option to go for the big prize (CB-wise, maybe more conquest % or higher tagging chance) but face stiffer opposition, or go for a less valuable target planet where the average organisation or competence is lower.
No need for artifical and dysfucntional algorithms (lookign at you ELO-tard). Let the players sort themselves out on their own.

Yes, there would still be ******* playing the big fish in a small pond. But definately not more than there are now.

-------------

Actually this could spin into something way more immersive, "realistic planetary campaign" and fun in the long run as you could see in Mystere´s "CW needs more depth" thread.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 29 April 2015 - 05:04 AM.

[Zolaz]

Your team of casuals is having a hard time against people who play and study the game more than you? Yes, we must punish the people who put their time and effort into learning, that is the only way.

[Demoyan]

This isn't your soccer team. You don't get trophies just for showing up for 30 minutes on game day. You want fair? Up your game to fair levels.

[eSeifer]

Demoyan, on 29 April 2015 - 05:32 AM, said:

This isn't your soccer team. You don't get trophies just for showing up for 30 minutes on game day. You want fair? Up your game to fair levels.

^

[sycocys]

Zolaz, on 29 April 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

Your team of casuals is having a hard time against people who play and study the game more than you? Yes, we must punish the people who put their time and effort into learning, that is the only way.

As much as I want to see more people in CW, it is really hard to argue with this point. I'm not telling people to not be casual players, but CW isn't standard queue and it should require more thought, skill and practice engaging in teamwork.

[Tasker]

They tried to beat us on field of battle. They failed.

They tried to timer scam us. They failed.

They tried to report us to get us all banned. They failed.

Now they ask PGI to make it impossible for us to ever get a match.

Ha Ha Ha. Die, clanners!

#KuritaStrong