47 replies to this topic

[Zoberraz]

I'm thrilled to see the Wolfhound finally make it into Mechwarrior Online. It has been a favorite battlemech of mine since my teenage years. I eagerly went to look at the concept art and... well, I'll let the observation of someone from Reddit speak for me:

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Is anyone else a bit disappointed with the Wolfhound art? It's often described as having a wolf-styled head design, and there is art depicting it as such, but instead they went with the much more TRO 3050-style head. I was kinda hoping for the head to have ears, but right now with the very standard body design and featureless head the mech feels kinda... generic?

That last word resonated with me. The torso was perfect, but the head struck me as generic. And this cooled my ardor to buy it (and the rest of the pack) much more. I guess I am disappointed. I wanted a Wolfhound with a lupine-stylized head... not with a 20-ton Stinger's head.

I get how the TRO were inconsistent and showed off two different kinds of Wolfhound designs. One is... uninspired.


While the other made a better effort of sticking to the paper novel description of the Wolfhound.



The actual book description from Lethal Heritage describes the Wolfhound so:

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The Wolfhound Phelan piloted had a humanoid form and walked upright, but it's unusual silhouette gave most enemy pilots reason to pause. It's right wrist ended in the muzzle of a large laser, and three medium laser ports dotted its scarlet chest in a triangular pattern. Most startling, however, was the 'Mech's head and cockpit assembly whose design accented and heightened of the Wolfhound's lean deadliness.

The head had been crafted for both image and function. It's jutting muzzle and twin viewports combined with the upthrust triangular sensor panels on either side to give the Wolfhound a canine appearance. [...]

Litterature beyond the two paragraphs above have not been shy of comparing the Wolfhound's look with the Egyptian God of Death, Anubis. I even saw a modded model trying to come closer to that:

Which looks nice, I guess, but takes the twin viewport/eyesocket theme too far - cockpit view then would be downright horrid.

So, I still think the best compromise was this design:

Ears, muzzle, a very functional cockpit.

A good amount of the hype surrounding the Wolfhound will come from older MWO players whom will have read the books and value the Wolfhound in the symbolism of an iconic hero mech. I'm shamelessly part of that group. I am quite surprised to see how the ball seems to have been dropped with the Wolfhound when such a fantastic job had been done with the Panther.

I would beg PGI to revise the head's aesthetics. Please try to give it the semblance of a muzzle and upthrust ears; otherwise it'll feel much less like a Wolfhound (at least less so to us bookworms). Thank you for your consideration.

Edited by Zoberraz, 01 May 2015 - 10:48 AM.

[Corbenik]

maybe they are saving the custom geo to make it look canine, and the others generic so it can have a reason to be "unique" and people wont complain it is just handlebars D:

[Malleus011]

http://mwomercs.com/...wolfhound-head/

Agreed. Other mockups would be helpful.

[FupDup]

Ears would be kewl, but a muzzle would just look silly.

[Zoberraz]

Corbenik, on 01 May 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

maybe they are saving the custom geo to make it look canine, and the others generic so it can have a reason to be "unique" and people wont complain it is just handlebars D:

Yeah, but the Shadowhawk-like cockpit doesn't look too encouraging. >_>

Also, I've been very disappointed with the extra geo from the initial Resistance pack, so, I'm not counting on it. Besides, this seems too tied to the interior cockpit shape too.

FupDup, on 01 May 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Ears would be kewl, but a muzzle would just look silly.

Not saying I have the best ideas ever with that. I figured the muzzle would be the base of the cockpit itself. I figure they have their own design sense - that's why I suggest and appeal to 'try', over demanding for a specific detail. I'm trying to convey that the canine look did mean something to Wolfhound fans.

As an owner of the second Wolfhound miniature I showed off in the pictures above, I personally have nothing against some 'muzzle' in the head (it comes off more as a blunted cone, which I am fine with). Though, of course, a more promemminent head could mean that the cockpit/CT will be easier to target geometry-wise.

Edited by Zoberraz, 01 May 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[Corbenik]

Zoberraz, on 01 May 2015 - 08:33 AM, said:

Yeah, but the Shadowhawk-like cockpit doesn't look too encouraging. >_>

Also, I've been very disappointed with the extra geo from the initial Resistance pack, so, I'm not counting on it. Besides, this seems too tied to the interior cockpit shape too.

all they would do to not affect interior is just add some ears on top and thats it like the zeus shoulder fins.

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 01 May 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Ears would be kewl, but a muzzle would just look silly.

100%

I want the ears, but I don't want a furry mech.

[Zoberraz]

A redditor gave me a counter-argument I thought deserved mention:
http://www.reddit.co...ok_more/cqv63uf

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There is no accounting for taste. I have always hated the original Wolfhound look. A quick google search brought up several styles, one of which looks very much like PGI's iteration. We're all entitled to our opinion. If you gain enough support, perhaps they should change it. I will be voting against you, however. I like the look, and spoke with my wallet.

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A fair point of view.

For some reason, there ended up being two iterations of the Wolfhound. One is very close to what PGI did. The other is closer to what was presented in the narrative of the novels.
I'm admittedly a bookworm and I was a lot into Battletech's written lore, so, the Anubis-like looks of the WLF-1 - as presented by Micheal Stackpole - was pretty much how the mental picture of this iconic heromech appeared.

This said, I'm hoping this doesn't have to be a zero-sum game. Perhaps they can preserve the present cockpit but pruce it up enough to give a sufficiently convincing canine theme; in effect, a good compromise.

It doesn't need to be the same Wolfhound as before. I just want the visual theme to not be entirely gone.

Edited by Zoberraz, 01 May 2015 - 09:16 AM.

[Alex Iglesias]

Just gonna chime in.

I did initially experiment with the different head designs. I first started with the head with the canopy on top of the snout, before trying out more of a visor, wasn't quite feelin' it, before finally giving the older wedge head style a try, and finding i liked it.

The outright anubis head was a little too cartoony for my tastes, that and having a snout and two eyes would've looked weird as heck in first person.

That being said, though it's not really visible due to current low perspective, my intent is to have a bit of an indentation on the back of the head, just behind the antenna, to imply ears on the standard version. For the resistance version I was planning on having some geo added to the head area to evoke more obvious wolfdoggy features.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Alex Iglesias, on 01 May 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

That being said, though it's not really visible due to current low perspective, my intent is to have a bit of an indentation on the back of the head, just behind the antenna, to imply ears on the standard version. For the resistance version I was planning on having some geo added to the head area to evoke more obvious wolfdoggy features.

Assuming the 3d modellers can capture this, it seems perfect to me. Thanks!

[MuonNeutrino]

As the author of the reddit post quoted above, I (obviously) agree 100%. The flat head is just not interesting looking, and as a fan of the various novel descriptions I found it very disappointing and significantly discouraging me from buying this pack. I'd be sad if the only way to get one that actually looks canine is to buy the special resistance version.

Alex, if you have any of the older concept art of the different versions you experimented with, would you mind posting it if you're allowed to? I really wouldn't mind seeing that.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 01 May 2015 - 09:37 AM.

[Zoberraz]

It's fantastic to have you here, Alex. Thanks for chiming in.

I was looking at your art earlier, trying to see the picture from another point of view than mine. Design-wise, I had suspected that head proportions with the rest of the body, or wanting to have a more serious look, might have justified the preference of one design basis over the other.

So, the approach for the ears/back of the head will look similar to this?


Well, the least I wanted was for the thematic look to be tried, and it looks like this was already considered. Thanks a lot for the behind-the-scene peek at how you approached this, Alex. I'll look forward to more wolfdoggy from the extra geo (meaning, your reassurances on the process had me take the plunge and make the purchase).

Like I said before, it doesn't have to be the very same Wolfhound - just be convincingly wolfdoggy. It seems you're already in touch with that, so... I'll looking forward to more wolfdoggy.

Edited by Zoberraz, 01 May 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[Alex Iglesias]

The cockpit glass will stay in the mouth area, but yeah, some pointy ears in the back, plus some other stuff on the head n body.

[Zoberraz]

Again, thanks a lot, Alex.

If you ever look back here again, MuonNeutrino did make a request too.

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Alex, if you have any of the older concept art of the different versions you experimented with, would you mind posting it if you're allowed to? I really wouldn't mind seeing that.

I'll admit I'm curious too... though mostly just because I like geeking out over your concept art - I liked seeing the iteration processes you showed in the past (the Atlas' head, for example).

[InRev]

Alex, you really are the shining gem in PGI's crown.

I hope you are well compensated for your efforts

[Kristov Kerensky]

I figured the more canine head would be on either the special Resistance version or perhaps come later as an actual Hero Mech, since the Wolfhound that Phelan used in the novel that you quoted had a customized head, it was not the stock version. And that head was later modified by Clan Wolf Techs to be even more canine when they rebuilt Grinner as the Wolfhound IIC.

Otherwise, the Wolfhound typically had the head like the one Alex put on it for MWO. Remember, sometimes the name of the Mech is just a name, it doesn't actually indicate HOW the Mech looks.

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 01 May 2015 - 11:30 AM.

[Glaive-]

Alex Iglesias, on 01 May 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

Just gonna chime in.

I did initially experiment with the different head designs. I first started with the head with the canopy on top of the snout, before trying out more of a visor, wasn't quite feelin' it, before finally giving the older wedge head style a try, and finding i liked it.

The outright anubis head was a little too cartoony for my tastes, that and having a snout and two eyes would've looked weird as heck in first person.

That being said, though it's not really visible due to current low perspective, my intent is to have a bit of an indentation on the back of the head, just behind the antenna, to imply ears on the standard version. For the resistance version I was planning on having some geo added to the head area to evoke more obvious wolfdoggy features.

Okay that does it.
I am at minimum going to preorder the Wolfhound.
TY very much Alex for the info!

And personally, I am very glad that you went with the wedge-shaped head, rather then the wolf head with the snout. Your Wolfhound is easily my favorite rendition of the mech.

Edited by armyunit, 01 May 2015 - 11:45 AM.

[Malleus011]

If the 'Special Geometry' head has a more pronounced wolfs-head look, I'll be much more likely to buy one.

Can we possibly have a preview of the Wolfhound special head geo, at least?

[AlexEss]

was challanged in anoteh thread after an.... fairly rude remark from my side to come up with a design... Seems that i was sort of on the same track as Alex (even if i went for a more "ears" kind of design as that was what i was commenting on)

This is what i came up with. (it is kind of rough because i did not have all that much time.)

Edited by AlexEss, 01 May 2015 - 12:55 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Alex Iglesias, on 01 May 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

That being said, though it's not really visible due to current low perspective, my intent is to have a bit of an indentation on the back of the head, just behind the antenna, to imply ears on the standard version. For the resistance version I was planning on having some geo added to the head area to evoke more obvious wolfdoggy features.

Thanks a lot for the reply, I'm a big fan of your work!

If we could see the concept art for the Resistance version when it's finished, that would be great

Spoiler

Edited by Alistair Winter, 01 May 2015 - 01:12 PM.