74 replies to this topic

[Serpieri]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 01 May 2015 - 12:04 PM, said:

I cant wait till clan battlemechs make the Omnis obsolete

I can't wait for IS Omni's - quite a few of them have single heatsinks.

[SaltBeef]

Wrong! MW3 and 4 all had multiplayer and I played them a lot until weapons boating got too much 6 ER LL madcats , Gladiator guass and Large pulses got repetitive. Operation Iraqi freedom happened MWLL came alive with out a strong mech lab.

Edited by SaltBeef, 01 May 2015 - 11:02 PM.

[anonymous161]

how about complaining about something that effects your wallot...like the price of the clans vs is.

[Ragtag soldier]

Mcgral18, on 01 May 2015 - 10:58 PM, said:

Remember when I said no to Blanket Buffs?

this is why you're stupid. you don't get to say "some omnis can have this and some can't". it doesn't work that way. if you want to open upgrades for omnimechs, you have to do it for ALL omnimechs. you can't pick and choose to have every little thing your way by trying to micromanage it all, it's not balanced or reasonable. it's just selfish.

[aniviron]

Mcgral18, on 01 May 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

Without hardwired equipment, and the XL375, Mr Gargles could be the fastest Dual Gauss chassis, with 37 free tons moving 83.5 Kph. As it stands, he a joke of a Assault mech, using Medium mech loadouts, at a sub 200M niche...that the Nova does better.

When the Nova does something better than another mech, you know that other mech has some BIG problems. At least the GAR's problems aren't... massive-sized anymore. ;]

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 01 May 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

this is why you're stupid. you don't get to say "some omnis can have this and some can't". it doesn't work that way. if you want to open upgrades for omnimechs, you have to do it for ALL omnimechs. you can't pick and choose to have every little thing your way by trying to micromanage it all, it's not balanced or reasonable. it's just selfish.

But quirks are fine?

Really, when the hell are you going to make a consistent argument? You keep flip flopping.



Please, make a rational argument.

[Lily from animove]

The way for omnis went realyl abd the moment they gave CT's different quirks, because now they are technically no omnimches anymore since the exact same loadout on 2 mechs actsdifferent now, and those choices are actually also not even that nice.
This means often one or 2 CT's out of 4 are flat out superior. and with the fact that the rest cna swap the harpoints the rest of the Omnivariants are dead.

I really want PGI to change this bakc and give any Omnimech chassis' that have the exact same CT, also getting the exact same quirks. Otherwise this destroys the omnimech idea.

[Brody319]

Or they made a mistake. They listed the wrong dates for other packages. I think you are looking a bit too deep into a typo.

[Ragtag soldier]

Lily from animove, on 02 May 2015 - 12:23 AM, said:

The way for omnis went realyl abd the moment they gave CT's different quirks, because now they are technically no omnimches anymore since the exact same loadout on 2 mechs actsdifferent now, and those choices are actually also not even that nice.
This means often one or 2 CT's out of 4 are flat out superior. and with the fact that the rest cna swap the harpoints the rest of the Omnivariants are dead.

I really want PGI to change this bakc and give any Omnimech chassis' that have the exact same CT, also getting the exact same quirks. Otherwise this destroys the omnimech idea.

1:i can barely understand what you're trying to say
2:chassis quirks are leftover from the 'mech skill tables, and the different quirks are to make people not complain that they're forced to bu the exact same mech three times to unlock it's skill tree. which isn't much of a complaint, but clan players have complained about everything possible so they're probably desperate enough to do it anyways.

i'd honestly just unlock the CT omnipod and have perdominant pod model determine the XP distribution, but they probably wouldn't know how to do that.

Mcgral18, on 01 May 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

But quirks are fine?

keep moving that goalpost, slomo. your constant change of tactics only makes you look stupider. omnimech rules are balanced, and you not being able to overcheese how you like is not a sign of any problem

Edited by Ragtag soldier, 02 May 2015 - 07:05 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Ragtag soldier, on 02 May 2015 - 07:02 AM, said:

keep moving that goalpost, slomo. your constant change of tactics only makes you look stupider. omnimech rules are balanced, and you not being able to overcheese how you like is not a sign of any problem

And another worthless poster put on ignore.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Fate 6, on 01 May 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

PS - yes, if you think Clans do not have superior mechs I am calling you a bad player. It's not an insult, it's just a fact. Some players just aren't good at this game, it's nothing to get mad about.

If you believe in the fallacy that the mech makes the pilot, that's your opinion then, not fact. You have it ass backwards. There are pilots who can make IS mechs dance circles of death around Clan mechs without breaking a sweat. If you're a good player then you should know at least more than a handful of them. Then, you can take the same pilot, put them into Clan mechs and they can do the same. A good pilot is just a good pilot. A bad pilot is just a bad pilot, and thinks they're entitled to be compensated for their lack of ability.

I certainly agree with you that bad is just plain bad. But while quirks may help mechs to be more viable to use (which should be the core issue of balance), quirks will never fix stupid, no matter how one sided balancing gets.

[Wildstreak]

Fate 6, on 01 May 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Nova has no room for ES, Ice Ferret and lights already have it, Mad Dog doesn't need it nor does the Hellbringer. In fact there's only 3 mechs (Summoner, Gargoyle, Warhawk) that would remotely benefit from it and even then the Warhawk doesn't need tonnage as much as it needs crit slots.

The Warhawk is nerfed by the locked DHS especially in the LT. 5 DHS, 10 crits, 5 tons locked.
All Novas have 4 locked, 2 per side, but it does not harm them as badly.
Mist Lynx has 3, Fox, Adder and Dire have 2.

Ragtag soldier, on 01 May 2015 - 10:34 PM, said:

omnimechs don't need unlocked upgrades or engines on top of their omnipoints. you know why? because it's not going to make bad omnimechs more viable! it's going to make the better omnimechs even more overpowered and further make it pointless to take the low-tier ones!

Ragtag soldier, on 01 May 2015 - 11:15 PM, said:

you don't get to say "some omnis can have this and some can't". it doesn't work that way. if you want to open upgrades for omnimechs, you have to do it for ALL omnimechs. you can't pick and choose to have every little thing your way by trying to micromanage it all, it's not balanced or reasonable. it's just selfish.

It depends on what feature is unlocked. Let's say for discussion only locked DHS outside the engine gets unlocked, which Clan Mechs are effected? I listed them above.
Warhawk, Nova, Myst Lynx, Kit Fox, Adder, Dire Wolf. Only one of these is cinsidered a top Clan Mech and all it gets is 2 tons and 4 crits as the Fox & Adder would. Warhawk benefits the most.
So how would that make the Stormcrow and Timber Wolf better? Not one bit. Is 2 tons and 4 crits on a Dire Wolf a big deal? It may well get negative Ballistic quirks anyhow.
Just an example.

Edited by Wildstreak, 02 May 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[Ragtag soldier]

Wildstreak, on 02 May 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

It depends on what feature is unlocked. Let's say for discussion only-

it really doesn't if you don't have an argument why we can unlock one thing and not the others. otherwise, all unlocking one thing will do is make people howl more for unlocking everything else. it's not technically fair to simply target one thing to give a buff to, and technical fairness is pretty much all they care about if it means the the people that don't care about balance can get what they want.

[DoctorZuber]

You do know that in battletech the clan did have non-omnimechs. I hope in time they will be added to the game here. They were considered to be second line mechs.

Ironically, here they would quickly become first line mechs, because with the current system, they would be more configurable than omnimechs. They would lose the more flexible hardpoint options true, but they would gain the ability to change the engine size, jump jets, upgrades, and internal slots. In many peoples eyes, this would make them better than omni-mechs.

[Chuanhao]

Play to the mech to a fashion. Not adjust every mech to one's own preference.

Mr Gargles role is niche, unique and difficult to play. That is the inherent challenge. If u start giving it the option to do that, the option to do this? Then it simply becomes Mr Gargles in name only.

If quirks are the balance mechanism in this game, lets keep it that way. Adding something as big a deal as allowing ES/FF/engine change/DHS removal will further complicate how balanced is achieved. Clan mechs will now have the cake and eat it, with frosting.

Play to the mech. Dont be lazy.

[Mcgral18]

Chuanhao, on 02 May 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

Play to the mech to a fashion. Not adjust every mech to one's own preference.

Mr Gargles role is niche, unique and difficult to play. That is the inherent challenge. If u start giving it the option to do that, the option to do this? Then it simply becomes Mr Gargles in name only.

If quirks are the balance mechanism in this game, lets keep it that way. Adding something as big a deal as allowing ES/FF/engine change/DHS removal will further complicate how balanced is achieved. Clan mechs will now have the cake and eat it, with frosting.

Play to the mech. Dont be lazy.

Purposely gimping the mech from 1.5 tons is pretty lazy, now that you mention it.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Chuanhao, on 02 May 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

Adding something as big a deal as allowing ES/FF/engine change/DHS removal will further complicate how balanced is achieved.

Truth. IS mechs in a nutshell, and exactly why there isn't "balance", only new metas.

[Golden Vulf]

Ragtag soldier, on 02 May 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

it really doesn't if you don't have an argument why we can unlock one thing and not the others. otherwise, all unlocking one thing will do is make people howl more for unlocking everything else. it's not technically fair to simply target one thing to give a buff to, and technical fairness is pretty much all they care about if it means the the people that don't care about balance can get what they want.

You do realize they unlocked armor on clan mechs, right? Normally you can't edit the amount on an omnimech after the chasis has been locked outside of customization (what only IS mechs have access to in this game).

They realized that if clan mechs had their armor locked, many of them would be destroyed in seconds. So it is the one thing they decided to unlock.

In the tabletop rules, Omnimechs, just like standard Battlemechs, can be fully customized. They do not stop being omnimechs when customized in a facility. That only happens if you try to do a field refit. They decided to not use the standard tabletop rules in this game and made up their own omnimech rules.

The end result is clan players DO NOT NEED unlocked customization options for any clan mechs. Because we already have the Timberwolf and Stormcrow.

If you are pilotting anything else, it's either just for fun or to bring ECM, and those are both FINE reasons. IS players don't want clan unlocks, because they want to play against ONLY Timberwolves and Stormcrows.

Timberwolf and Stormcrow are in the game, we don't need Summoners with 3.5 extra tons, we don't need Gargoyles to have 4 extra heat sinks. They got Timberwolf and Stormcrow right. Just keep playing those. They already have all the hard points we need. You can tell they already have optimal hard points because IS itch about it constantly.

Just load up your drop decks, you can fit 2 Timberwolves, 1 Hellbringer, and a sniping Mist Lynx if you want to change it up, but 3 Crows and a Wolf works just fine. Really just forget about 8 of the clan mechs, we don't have the mechs we deserve, we have the mechs we need.

* I do like running 2 Hellbringers, Warhawk, and Mist Lynx too sometimes, when I used to drop with a unit. I've been spending my time playing games I have fun with though. I almost came back for the new Resistance 2, but decided not to purchase or get back in to the game since I have too many mastered clan mechs that collect virtual dust. I just lurk on the forums since I like battletech, and still play tabletop, so I like to see the new concept arts.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 04 May 2015 - 03:24 AM.

[Midax]

There is no value to Omni mechs in MWO. PGI decided that the IS would get the equivalent to Omni mechs by allowing full editing of mechs in the mech lab.

Omni mech follow the TT rules more closely and are worthless in MWO because of this. In the world of MWO the clan second line mechs will be more powerful than the first line mechs because they are not Omni.

TT gave us rules for creating our own mechs so we could create brand new mechs or mech variants for a house or large organization. These same rules could be used to create Omni mechs too.

Omni mechs were powerful in TT if you ran campaigns. The whole point of them was the quick repair and refitting to fit the mission you were running. We don't have a campaign system in MWO to take advantage of that.

IS should really be limited to changing between similar weapons. Going from PPC to ERPPC, AC10 to LBX10. Not changing to endosteel or XL engines. Right now MWO lets IS players basically create a new mech line from scratch with some arbitrary weapon hard point restriction. Clans don't get to design their own mechs and have to use Omnis as they are intended on TT. Sadly I don't see PGI ever going back and locking down the mech editor.

[Vandul]

Lightfoot, on 01 May 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Just for about 15 minutes yesterday the Black Knight and Mauler were listed as Omnimechs. What was quickly apparent to everyone was that this would turn the two mechs into junk with fixed ST Internals and Engines and likely Heat Sinks. A Mauler going 48 kph without 2xAC20's is not going to last too long came to mind and I thought is that why it's an Omnimech in MWO? To block the 2xAC20 load-out? Because the Mauler is pre-Omnimech.

Then the web page was edited for corrections and the Mauler became the super-uber standard mech that magically switches Endo and Engine and any Equipment for just the price of the parts in just a few seconds. Saved from MWO's growing omnimech trash heap. MWO's Omnimech Curse.

You can see where I am going here is that MWO's Omnimechs are so cursed with fixed equipment while the ancient tech standard mechs are so blessed and completely modifiable in seconds in Mechlab that no one would ever have bothered to make Omnimechs. The balancing becomes the complete inverse of the Battle Tech technology advances.

And it's not just Clan since Inner Sphere is getting close to some early Omnimechs which may well look like the Mauler omnimech from the typo.

So to reach some sort of balance which addresses the logical progress of Battlemech technologies in Battle Tech some of the Omnimech Equipment must also be modifiable and not just allowed on the ancient Inner Sphere mechs. Otherwise players will shun the new tech Omnimechs for the old and lower quality ancient Mech tech. There's an oxymoron, over-powered with low quality.

I suggest unfixing Omnimech Internal Structures, Armor Type, and some Jump-Jets and Heat Sinks. The Engine sizes should stay fixed since this prevents the Clan Frankenmechs from being made.

Something like this really has to be done to actually make Omnimechs a desirable advancement over standard mechs. Otherwise the mechs become the opposite of the lore and you get a Battle Tech where old, worn out tech is much better than the new latest tech.

When your mechs start blowing up when taking a single side torso critical, you will get my empathy. Until then...