48 replies to this topic

[GrizzlyViking]

While solving the attack/defend issue for Tukayyid PGI has unintentionally caused a more far reaching problem for day-to-day regular CW. The new alternating attack/defense modes have effectively doubled the amount of time it takes to ghost drop on a planet. If you have 2 very committed 12-mans who have nothing to do for 2.5 hours (MINIMUM), then you could take an enemy planet by ghost drop. However, that is not the point really. The real point here is that any faction that decides to ignore enemy attacks can let things go for 2.5 or more hours depending on how dedicated the attackers are to their cause. If there is only one company attacking, then you can add another hour to make it 3.5 hours. In reality we may as well round up to make it 3-4 hours of ghost drops for only the most diligent groups of attackers. Everybody who plays CW on a regular basis knows that no unit/12-man group is going to spend much time ghost dropping for little to no reward, especially when it takes hours just to top the 50% mark. I predict that no defense will be the new popular defense mode until PGI changes things again.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 01 May 2015 - 01:11 PM.

[Richter Kerensky]

No planets changed hands yesterday, something that almost never happened in phase 1. How hard is this? Win a match, get a node. Lose a match, lose a node. Randomly select the map and decouple them from what node you're currently fighting on. Game can also choose between "attack/counter-attack" and "defense/hold territory" at random just for variety's sake even though they wouldn't affect how planet nodes change hands.

Someone explain to me how this wouldn't solve the majority of problems in CW. It'd even encourage people to queue up on defense because you have more to gain by winning a defense.

[sdsnowbum]

I doubt non-defense is an actively used tactic. Simply because it would take more organization and sacrifice than any faction can manage.

Call-to-arms, the fact that anyone can go do defend on a clan/IS border, the fact that many people just want to fight CW and don't care about a planet enough to not fight if they are risking 'losing' the planet.

It might look this is happening to an attacking faction, but I guarantee if nobody is defending your attacks it's likely because one of the following:

1) you are not attacking across a clan/IS border thus only one faction's defenders can come to fight you,
2) there are not enough defenders for all the attacks going on at the moment, or not enough defenders period (CW population too low).

[Chagatay]

The issue is that CW is just not as popular as it could be. I say this as avid supporter of CW. BoT proved that at least in the short term bribery works, but for the long haul there needs to be massive changes and perhaps overhaul of the entire system*.

*He's dead Jim

[Molossian Dog]

Chagatay, on 01 May 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

...BoT proved that at least in the short term bribery works, but for the long haul there needs to be massive changes and perhaps overhaul of the entire system*....

You are absolutely correct. But...that would require content.

Content as in "something to do" instead of"new Mechs".

Edited by Molossian Dog, 01 May 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[Deathlike]

I've already predicted this weeks ago, before the implementation. So, gg me.

The way to solve this indirectly is to reduce the # of pieces to take... say 6 pieces (of 11 pieces total) instead of 8 (of 15 pieces total).

In other words (with the current system), the only actual action will require a weekend to even get enough people (4 12-mans) together over 4 hours to attack just ONE planet.

It takes too much of an effort otherwise to attack multiple planets in multiple areas as currently constituted.

With the playerbase on major burnout after the Tukayyid event, CW will be far more barren than before to getting planets moved.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 May 2015 - 03:01 PM.

[GrizzlyViking]

Odins Fist, on 01 May 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Wait a "F"ing minute...... You're mad cause you can't Ghost Drop as fast and cherry pick a slot on a planet..

"F" that... Earn it or GTFO... "SLAP"

This is the part where I remind the partial post readers to read the entire post.

[SuomiWarder]

too many planets in play at any given time,. Get the few CW players concentrated on a smaller number of available planets.

[Odins Fist]

GrizzlyViking, on 01 May 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

This is the part where I remind the partial post readers to read the entire post.

And after that line... NOBODY NEEDS TO READ FURTHER..

Thanks for trying... BUH BYE

[Tarogato]

Odins Fist, on 01 May 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

... posts...

I don't think you understand the issue at hand.

The old way: a 12-man ghost drops on a planet and wins 2-3 nodes. The opposing faction begins to realise "this is fast becoming a problem, we should probably deal with it lest they keep coming". Bam, live matches start happening.

How it is now: a 12-man ghost drops on a planet, wins one node, and gets a ghost-defense for their next two drops. 30+ minutes invested for no gain. That's over 6 man-hours. The opposing faction sees one taken node on the planet, "they only have one node in the past 30 minutes, as long as we don't drop against them, they'll eventually leave in frustration." Bam, everything is ghost drops and nobody ever gets to play against an opposing team. Best defense is now "don't defend."

[Odins Fist]

Tarogato, on 01 May 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

I don't think you understand the issue at hand.

Oh No I do, and it mostly deals with one side mad that it couldn't do this or that during an event, when previously it did this or that and was all puffed up in the chest with it's results.

No, I understand just fine, this event was a test.. Nothing more.

GD man, do you NOT know what's going on with MWO..??

GHOST DROPS SHOULD "NEVER" BE COUNTED.

Only stanking little babies would consider a Ghost Drop a "WIN".

Those kind of peopla are weak little POS children that are obviously part of the participation Trophy Generation.

Tell me again who has had the LION's Share of Ghost Drops..??
I think we know... TO DATE before this last event..??

OH... that's right...

Edited by Odins Fist, 01 May 2015 - 07:04 PM.

[Tarogato]

Odins Fist, on 01 May 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Oh No I do, and it mostly deals with one side mad that it couldn't do this or that during an event, when previously it did this or that and was all puffed up in the chest with it's results
...salty post follows...

Glad to see your gut reaction to just about anybody replying to you is to get as abrasive as possible.

You're trying to make it sound like IS is whining because they couldn't ghost drop during the event and now they can't ghost drop outside of the event because 50% of their ghost drops don't earn a new territory and are a complete waste of time. The point of having ghost drops is to create an incentive for the opposing force to come and STOP it. The issue is that not even playing the game at all has become a tactical advantage. That probably sounds boring and broken. That's because it is.

I can now wait twice as long before even bothering to defend against ghost drops, and maybe even the attackers that are ghost dropping will give up and leave. Me not playing = better for my faction. Do you not see the problem in this?

[Chef Kerensky]

Odins Fist, on 01 May 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Oh No I do, and it mostly deals with one side mad that it couldn't do this or that during an event, when previously it did this or that and was all puffed up in the chest with it's results.

No, I understand just fine, this event was a test.. Nothing more.

GD man, do you NOT know what's going on with MWO..??

GHOST DROPS SHOULD "NEVER" BE COUNTED.

Only stanking little babies would consider a Ghost Drop a "WIN".

Those kind of peopla are weak little POS children that are obviously part of the participation Trophy Generation.

Tell me again who has had the LION's Share of Ghost Drops..??
I think we know... TO DATE before this last event..??

OH... that's right...

Nobody in this game wants to ghost cap a planet to victory. Ghost capping is ******* boring. The point is that ghost capping should be enough of a threat that defenders should have to say "uh oh, we'd better step in and put a stop to this" so that real, live games can start occurring. As it is now, there is no reason to bother defending because leaving a planet undefended is an effective deterrent and doesn't cost you any nodes.

We've proffered this solution so many times it's not funny anymore: one win, one node. Done. CW is fixed, every drop is meaningful, numbers no longer force anybody into meaningless victories, everyone is happy.

[Grynos]

Odins Fist, on 01 May 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Oh No I do, and it mostly deals with one side mad that it couldn't do this or that during an event, when previously it did this or that and was all puffed up in the chest with it's results.

No, I understand just fine, this event was a test.. Nothing more.

GD man, do you NOT know what's going on with MWO..??

GHOST DROPS SHOULD "NEVER" BE COUNTED.

Only stanking little babies would consider a Ghost Drop a "WIN".

Those kind of peopla are weak little POS children that are obviously part of the participation Trophy Generation.

Tell me again who has had the LION's Share of Ghost Drops..??
I think we know... TO DATE before this last event..??

OH... that's right...

Congrats on your event win there buddy.. Now instead of it taking four months to get where you before the reset it will take ten months to a year........ The other people who have posted bring up a valid point. One that clearly went over your head because at no point was anything stated about Clans vs IS.

Now that's done, Richter I posted the same idea numerous times on this forum. It only makes sense to make a win on defense actually mean something.

Last but not least, the current system is broken the other way as well for attacking. If on defense if every other match is a counter attack /defense all the attacking team would have to do is get the planet to 100% and win the next counter defense.

[Lord0fHats]

This is a fix for more than just population imbalance; It's also a fix for rushing a planet in the last 1 1/2 hours of an attack phase to swipe it before defenders can respond to prevent it. It is no longer possible to ensure that you can rush down a planet in the last bit of the attack phase meaning a longer period of activity is required to ensure planet capture.

[Grynos]

Lord0fHats, on 01 May 2015 - 10:50 PM, said:

This is a fix for more than just population imbalance; It's also a fix for rushing a planet in the last 1 1/2 hours of an attack phase to swipe it before defenders can respond to prevent it. It is no longer possible to ensure that you can rush down a planet in the last bit of the attack phase meaning a longer period of activity is required to ensure planet capture.

But that was already in place before hand.... The 10 min wait timer on Ghost drop slowed it up enough. I would also argue the idea on a win taking a section of planet would actually mean that a 12 man that was defending and winning would actually negate the ghost drop altogether. You have to understand that also means that if the planet you are defending is at 86%with 2 hours to go then the attacking team doesn't even have to attack anymore because half of your drops do nothing.

[Lord0fHats]

Grynos, on 01 May 2015 - 11:10 PM, said:

But that was already in place before hand.... The 10 min wait timer on Ghost drop slowed it up enough. I would also argue the idea on a win taking a section of planet would actually mean that a 12 man that was defending and winning would actually negate the ghost drop altogether. You have to understand that also means that if the planet you are defending is at 86%with 2 hours to go then the attacking team doesn't even have to attack anymore because half of your drops do nothing.

The Ghost drop timer was not a fix to the issue. A single 12 man can make 4-5 ghost drops in an hour (because it only takes 2-3 min to finish a ghost drop). 2 or 3 12 mans, like we often see in large coordinated attacks, can blow through a planet in an hour and capture it even without ghost drops.

This is an improvement over the previous status quo (though I'd still prefer something better, like a score board to decide capture).

Edited by Lord0fHats, 01 May 2015 - 11:28 PM.

[anonymous161]

Odins Fist, on 01 May 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Wait a "F"ing minute...... You're mad cause you can't Ghost Drop as fast and cherry pick a slot on a planet..

"F" that... Earn it or GTFO... "SLAP"

"SLAP" OOWOWWWWWWW!!!

[GrizzlyViking]

Odins Fist, on 01 May 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

And after that line... NOBODY NEEDS TO READ FURTHER..

Thanks for trying... BUH BYE

And now comes the part where I remind everyone that you can't help people who don't want help.

[Monkey Lover]

GrizzlyViking, on 01 May 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

While solving the attack/defend issue for Tukayyid PGI has unintentionally caused a more far reaching problem for day-to-day regular CW. The new alternating attack/defense modes have effectively doubled the amount of time it takes to ghost drop on a planet. If you have 2 very committed 12-mans who have nothing to do for 2.5 hours (MINIMUM), then you could take an enemy planet by ghost drop. However, that is not the point really. The real point here is that any faction that decides to ignore enemy attacks can let things go for 2.5 or more hours depending on how dedicated the attackers are to their cause. If there is only one company attacking, then you can add another hour to make it 3.5 hours. In reality we may as well round up to make it 3-4 hours of ghost drops for only the most diligent groups of attackers. Everybody who plays CW on a regular basis knows that no unit/12-man group is going to spend much time ghost dropping for little to no reward, especially when it takes hours just to top the 50% mark. I predict that no defense will be the new popular defense mode until PGI changes things again.

I hated how easy it was to ghost drop a planet before. There was lots of time we fought all night with 3-4, 12mans + pug groups to win a planet just to get it ghost dropped the next morning.
There has to be something we can do to make people fight and keep from ghost dropping.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 May 2015 - 10:08 AM.