21 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Juodas Varnas, on 02 May 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

I see what you're saying, but i don't see how having multiple small launchers decreases your alphastriking ability, because it really doesn't.

Heat penalties. If you fire 4xLRM10 instead of 2xLRM20, you get 21.38 ghost heat.
If you fire 4xLRM5 instead of 1xLRM20, you get 9.68 ghost heat.
If you fire 6xSRM4 you get 22.05 ghost heat, when you fire 4xSRM6 you get 17.2 ghost heat

Not taking ghost heat into account:
4xLRM5 produces 8 heat, while 1xLRM20 produces 6 heat.
4xLRM10 gives 16 heat, 2xLRM20 produces 12 heat.
6xSRM4 gives 18 heat, 4xSRM6 gives 16 heat
3xSRM2 gives 6 heat, 1xSRM6 gives 4 heat.

You're not sacrificing alpha strike ability, you're sacrificing heat capacity. If you keep alpha striking with multiple small launchers, you're going to overheat. This reinforces the idea that people have to choose between DPS and alpha strike, because missile boats with bigger launchers will be able to alpha strike repeatedly much better than missile boats with smaller launchers.

That's the idea, anyway. Then you have quirks that potentially mess with this idea, by reducing LRM5 heat to the point where you can spam alpha strikes repeatedly, for example.

Juodas Varnas, on 02 May 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

Tell me, when was the last time you saw someone running a single LRM20 launcher or an LRM15, instead of 3-6 LRM5s? (Unless the guy was running a stock mech or the mech is quirked for them, i don't really see it happening)

I totally agree that this is a concern, but this is not unique to LRMs. Boating is king in this game, and this problem has escalated after PGI introduced quirks which diminish or negate the effect of ghost heat. Suddenly Thunderbolts, Stalkers, Banshees and Battlemasters have dropped all missiles and ballistics (you sometimes see the 3xAC5 Banshee and Misery with Gauss, but that's pretty much it) and started boating lasers.

How often do you see a Battlemaster with a single PPC? How often do you see a Thunderbolt with 2MGs? How often do you see a Banshee with a single AC10? It's the same for single SRM launchers and single LRM launchers. Single weapons are not effective in this game, and quirks make them even less effective. Quirks encourage brain-dead boating builds, when they should be encouraging complex builds.

IMO, the Banshee 3S with 1 missile hardpoint (SRM6 stock) and 1 ballistic hardpoint (AC10 stock) should have some serious missile and ballistic quirks, to encourage people using those weapons. Instead, it has great medum laser quirks and lots of energy hardpoints, which leads to boating. Only a single ballistic quirk, 10% cooldown, which is pretty much meaningless in the current meta.

[Juodas Varnas]

Alistair Winter, on 02 May 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

Heat penalties. If you fire 4xLRM10 instead of 2xLRM20, you get 21.38 ghost heat.
If you fire 4xLRM5 instead of 1xLRM20, you get 9.68 ghost heat.
If you fire 6xSRM4 you get 22.05 ghost heat, when you fire 4xSRM6 you get 17.2 ghost heat

Not taking ghost heat into account:
4xLRM5 produces 8 heat, while 1xLRM20 produces 6 heat.
4xLRM10 gives 16 heat, 2xLRM20 produces 12 heat.
6xSRM4 gives 18 heat, 4xSRM6 gives 16 heat
3xSRM2 gives 6 heat, 1xSRM6 gives 4 heat.

You're not sacrificing alpha strike ability, you're sacrificing heat capacity. If you keep alpha striking with multiple small launchers, you're going to overheat. This reinforces the idea that people have to choose between DPS and alpha strike, because missile boats with bigger launchers will be able to alpha strike repeatedly much better than missile boats with smaller launchers.

That's the idea, anyway. Then you have quirks that potentially mess with this idea, by reducing LRM5 heat to the point where you can spam alpha strikes repeatedly, for example.


I totally agree that this is a concern, but this is not unique to LRMs. Boating is king in this game, and this problem has escalated after PGI introduced quirks which diminish or negate the effect of ghost heat. Suddenly Thunderbolts, Stalkers, Banshees and Battlemasters have dropped all missiles and ballistics (you sometimes see the 3xAC5 Banshee and Misery with Gauss, but that's pretty much it) and started boating lasers.

How often do you see a Battlemaster with a single PPC? How often do you see a Thunderbolt with 2MGs? How often do you see a Banshee with a single AC10? It's the same for single SRM launchers and single LRM launchers. Single weapons are not effective in this game, and quirks make them even less effective. Quirks encourage brain-dead boating builds, when they should be encouraging complex builds.

IMO, the Banshee 3S with 1 missile hardpoint (SRM6 stock) and 1 ballistic hardpoint (AC10 stock) should have some serious missile and ballistic quirks, to encourage people using those weapons. Instead, it has great medum laser quirks and lots of energy hardpoints, which leads to boating. Only a single ballistic quirk, 10% cooldown, which is pretty much meaningless in the current meta.

LRM5 isn't subject to ghost heat, from what i know.

Though you're right, i didn't take ghost heat into account when making this post.
Now, i do know that smaller launchers end up generating more heat than a single big one, however, in general the smaller launchers also weigh less and take up less space allowing you to put in more heatsinks to counteract the heat increase.

Also, about the "how often do you see thunderbolts with 2MGs", well i see one every day, since i run almost a stock TDR-5S, it's one of my favorite mechs and i do well in it in solo queue.
But yeah, i agree with the whole quirks dictating boats and other builds like the 7MPL TDR 5SS etc. and i really wish we didn't have quirks, because they very much limit the builds people use which leads to the game being boring

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 02 May 2015 - 12:30 PM.