62 replies to this topic

[Pahrias]

as awesome and cool looking as the currant drop mechanic is, it does leave the game very open to spawn camping. thankfully most units ive played against dont use this cowardly tactic, but those that do, i feel, ruin the game for those who would rather play honourably or at least sports manly.

a couple of possible solutions have come to mind, one being make the drop zones inaccessable to the opposing team. the down side to that is they can still camp out side of it, and it would create no go areas on some maps that could b exploited.

I think a better solution, would b to have 1-3 hrothgar dropships in both drop zones stationary and fully loaded to smack any attackers getting too close. the ranges of the weapons would probably need to be reduced to say 300m for most maps, just so they arent too involved in the actual fight. they could even b a secondary objective, like bonus points for killing them, and when they are dead (assuming there are still players left to spawn) it could revert to the small drop ships.

ive mentioned this a few times in game and been met with an emphatic YES! so i thought id make a post n see what the community at large thinks.

[Creag]

Spawn camping is a viable Tactic it has been used in real wars for centuries, so I don't see how it can a cowardly act.

[Paigan]

For me, the simplest solution to spawn camping has always been:

Make 3 drop sites lying apart. If one is being camped, the drop ships use on of the other sites (more precisely: the one with the least enemy mechs in it, usually 0).
If all three are camped equally, it can be only 4 mechs, so the newly dropped mechs with help from the Dropship(s) should be able to make it a costly thing to do for the campers.

Simple logic, virtually solves the problem without any "magic".
It's also a very realistic thing to do: DS pilots would see a drop site being camped and evade to another one.
Our current DS "pilots" (drop logic) are pretty idiotic, stoicly dumping their buddies, even if 12 mechs are waiting for them.


A stationary DS might work as well, but has MUCH more problems:
- need to gimp its weapons
- why doesn't it release all its anyway contained 48 mechs all at once and roflstomp the enemy?
- Would have to be invincible despite being a permanent combatant. Kind of crazy.

I'd prefer the simple and elegant solution, tbh.

Creag, on 04 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

Spawn camping is a viable Tactic it has been used in real wars for centuries, so I don't see how it can a cowardly act.

You are only half right.
Camping supply sites is viable, yes.
The problem is the idiotic DS pilots (bad drop logic) and rigid map design.

Edited by Paigan, 04 May 2015 - 03:33 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Creag, on 04 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

Spawn camping is a viable Tactic it has been used in real wars for centuries, so I don't see how it can a cowardly act.

Armies have been camping mternity wards? Or do you mean that they went even further back and cockblocked their opponents in bed?

[White Bear 84]

If the dropships are being camped, automatically bring in Aerospace support.

[Darwins Dog]

Spawn camping: perhaps the oldest debate in online shooters. I agree with both camps (no pun intended) on the matter.

If you are getting camped then you already lost the match. Camping is just a win more tactic.

I also see how it ruins the fun of the campees. Sure, they need to git gud, but you have to actually play the game to do that. Dying within seconds of spawning teaches you nothing.

If you think about it, dropships had pooploads of weapons for a reason. They had to clear out the landing zones for the mechs coming in. I say let them off the chain to do just that. Change their flight path to not interfere with the rest of the match, but allow them to punish anyone near the drop zone.

It also won't work to limit the weapons to 300m. You can still camp from 310m.

[Pahrias]

alternate drop sites would work tho i imagine there would still b a few groups who would try it, it would b much less effective as a tactic.

with the hrothgars, they would need to b gimped a bit, yes. but they wouldnt need to be invincible. as i said destroying them could b a secondary objective, which would then revert the team back to the currant drop ship thing. and the currant dropship have already been gimped havent they? reduced range on the LLasers?

tho i geuss then we would get defending teams just sitting at the hrothgars... but that wouldnt be too bad, if they were destructible.

[CyclonerM]

Paigan, on 04 May 2015 - 03:30 AM, said:

You are only half right.
Camping supply sites is viable, yes.
The problem is the idiotic DS pilots (bad drop logic) and rigid map design.

Give this man a medal and a cookie (or a cookie shaped as a medal!)

[Paigan]

CyclonerM, on 04 May 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

Give this man a medal and a cookie (or a cookie shaped as a medal!)

Cookies, yay!
(and thanks!)

[Pahrias]

yeah i see ur point darwins dog. and i do feel there are many solutions that could work or at least b tried. geuss we will just have to wait to see what PGI decides to do about it. mostly i just wanted to see what everyone else thinks

[Molossian Dog]

First things first:

If PGI places the spawns between the gates and the objectives it is not the attackers fault when they spawn camp. Nobody likes to be attacked from the rear.
Map design philosophy is just complete crap in this game.

Then:

Just let the players choose their spawn points. If you really manage to get all of your spawn points camped you are hopeless anyways and deserve to be camped like that. At least the seal clubbing will be over faster then.

[Willard Phule]

OR.....

Why just not change the coding so that the current ships will detour to another DZ if there are enemy mechs within X meters of the pre-designated DZ?

[Wildstreak]

Creag, on 04 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

Spawn camping is a viable Tactic it has been used in real wars for centuries, so I don't see how it can a cowardly act.

ROFLMAO!
Yes, the response deserves to be presented that way because spawn camping has not been used in real wars for centuries.

White Bear 84, on 04 May 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

If the dropships are being camped, automatically bring in Aerospace support.

An example of someone who 'get's it.'

[Molossian Dog]

Willard Phule, on 04 May 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

OR.....

Why just not change the coding so that the current ships will detour to another DZ if there are enemy mechs within X meters of the pre-designated DZ?

Because that can be exploited again, genius.

As soon as people get to know X = 500m they will camp 505m outside of the spawn.

And it would be a pain in the posterior to code it for each and every map. I am pretty sure some tard is gonna get the idea "oh the no-drop zone is pretty big, let´s just sit everywhere to block it and make the droppers not come at all, while the rest of my team gen rushes" or some other stupidity.

Besides the fact that there are several tactical decision you can make with manual spawn point choosing. Which are not code-able. Letting people make decisions and live with the consequences (or die) is good.

Code cannot think. People could.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 04 May 2015 - 04:56 AM.

[Kira Onime]

People play to win, not to make the enemy feel good about themselves.

[Dawnstealer]

1) Spawn camping is totally viable. A team that's organized will first realize that certain spawn points are vulnerable: if my team can wipe out 12 of your team's mechs one by one without sustaining heavy damage, why wouldn't we do that? It's a game. Whomever's being spawncamped needs to aggressively take the spawn point back or be at a horrific disadvantage; instead, they go off chasing that elusive Raven or Mist Lynx or shooting at that one Stalker or Crow on the other side of the map. And then they lose.

2) Bigger dropships, like Unions, Overlords, or even a Fortress, would be awesome.

3) It would be nice if the player could choose where they spawn, as in virtually every other game made since about '99.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 04 May 2015 - 05:09 AM.

[Lostdragon]

I don't have any fun when I am either camping or being camped. Most modern game designers have realized that camping is not good for their games and have created them in such a way that it is not an issue anymore. PGI should take a cue from that.

[Paigan]

Dawnstealer, on 04 May 2015 - 05:08 AM, said:

[...]Whomever's being spawncamped needs to aggressively take the spawn point back or be at a horrific disadvantage; [...]

You do understand that this is completely beside the point of spawn camping, right?
The problem with spawn camping is that you CANT take it back aggressively because every spawn is immediately killed by a superior force. They can't shoot back, they can't even run and regroup.
That is why the spawns MUST be dropped at some distance to the enemy mechs, like any real dropship would do.

Edited by Paigan, 04 May 2015 - 05:21 AM.

[White Bear 84]

Wildstreak, on 04 May 2015 - 04:21 AM, said:

An example of someone who 'get's it.'

Much obliged

Because lets face it, if your invading a planet you are not going to just let your dropped mechs get toasted as soon as they hit the ground.. ..and magic walls/bubbles on exist in fairy land so that is out the question..

Edit: No comments about the MWO magic invisible walls that exist around buildings and the geometry please.. ..unless you agree that MWO is a bit in fairy land. At least PGI are working on fixing this up

Edited by White Bear 84, 04 May 2015 - 05:51 AM.

[Apnu]

Creag, on 04 May 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

Spawn camping is a viable Tactic it has been used in real wars for centuries, so I don't see how it can a cowardly act.

Um you know that human beings don't spawn like that right?

Attacking an army's camp would be the closest thing to "spawn" camping, so also is attacking civilian populations. And its always been considered dirty pool. (See Sherman's "March to the Sea" and how many in the South still think the War of Northern Agression is still going on, see also WWII carpet bombing of industrial centers and towns) That doesn't stop human beings from doing it, they know its a scum tactic of no honor, they simply don't care. Usually the move results in a massacre, and it usually escalates hostilities and atrocities for both sides. Once IRL "spawn camping" starts, its a down hill slide.

Also this is a video game, its meant to be fun for everybody. Every FPS game in the history of FPS gaming has taken a dim view of spawn camping, its a troll tactic meant to annoy the other player into quitting the game.

Stop trying to pretty up what it is. At least have enough integrity to call a spade a spade.