22 replies to this topic

[Sanosuke1221]

Firstly, I have noticed that there is only one mech with a fixed weapon in the game, the Adder with a flamer. What if there where more mechs with fixed weapons? Could you balance some mechs by using fixed weapons?

Example: one mech I think is unbalanced is the Firestarter with 8 energy slots, now what if the Firesarter had a fixed flamer in each arm? I think this could balance it, it would only have 6 energy slots which would reduce the firepower which is too high for a light mech and at the same time it would force you to use flamers more, which is a weapon that I think needs a little love.

I know what some of you are thinking; "Oh no! don't nerf my favorite mech!", but this does not mean I want to nerf those mech, its simply a balacing change. In the case of the Firestarter (which is very popular) the change would only limit you to 6 energy weapon slots, but you will still have 8 weapons, 2 flamers and whatever 6 other weapons you want. I also think the Firestarter should have fixed flamers because that is what it was designed for. What is the point of naming a mech Firestarter if it does not have flamers? they should all have at least 2 fixed flamers.

But there is another problem, most players think flamers suck, which takes me to my second point, flamers suck! Its pretty simple: a little more damage, range and heat effect, thats all it needs to be viable!

Do you think this is a good idea? What other mechs do you think could benefit and/or be balanced by having fixed weapons?

[Strum Wealh]

Sanosuke1221, on 02 May 2015 - 04:31 PM, said:

Firstly, I have noticed that there is only one mech with a fixed weapon in the game, the Adder with a flamer. What if there where more mechs with fixed weapons? Could you balance some mechs by using fixed weapons?

Example: one mech I think is unbalanced is the Firestarter with 8 energy slots, now what if the Firesarter had a fixed flamer in each arm? I think this could balance it, it would only have 6 energy slots which would reduce the firepower which is too high for a light mech and at the same time it would force you to use flamers more, which is a weapon that I think needs a little love.

I know what some of you are thinking; "Oh no! don't nerf my favorite mech!", but this does not mean I want to nerf those mech, its simply a balacing change. In the case of the Firestarter (which is very popular) the change would only limit you to 6 energy weapon slots, but you will still have 8 weapons, 2 flamers and whatever 6 other weapons you want. I also think the Firestarter should have fixed flamers because that is what it was designed for. What is the point of naming a mech Firestarter if it does not have flamers? they should all have at least 2 fixed flamers.

But there is another problem, most players think flamers suck, which takes me to my second point, flamers suck! Its pretty simple: a little more damage, range and heat effect, thats all it needs to be viable!

Do you think this is a good idea? What other mechs do you think could benefit and/or be balanced by having fixed weapons?

The Puma is simply the only OmniMech yet implemented with a fixed weapon; other, as-yet-unimplemented examples do exist (such as the IS-built Avatar, with its dual CT-fixed Medium Lasers).

Even then, it is arguably more common to see fixed non-weapon equipment (Active Probes, ECM suites, MASC, Jump Jets, etc) than it is to see fixed weapon systems.

That being said, I partially agree with your point about the Firestarter; instead of locking the Flamers in as fixed weapons, what I'd personally like to see done with them first is to remove their generic laser-focused quirks and replace them with Flamer-focused quirks (e.g. the FS9-A would lose its "Small Pulse Laser Range" quirk and gain a "Flamer Range" quirk, the FS9-H would lose its "Medium Laser Range" quirk and gain a "Flamer Range" quirk, the FS9-S would lose its "Medium Pulse Laser Range" quirk and gain a "Flamer Range" quirk, and the Ember would lose its "Laser Duration" quirks and gain Flamer-related quirks (Flamer Heat Generation?)). The FS9-K, being built around a Large Laser, would have its generic "Laser Duration" quirk removed, and replaced with a "Large Laser Duration" quirk.
At that point, PGI could then introduce the FS9-M variant, which "debuted in 2893 and converts [the Firestarter] from an incendiary 'Mech to a frontline 'Mech by removing the Flamers and adding in their place two Small Lasers and three tons of armor" (e.g. it would have 4E/2B in terms of hardpoints, with some structural and armor quirks & some quirks specific to Small Lasers & Medium Lasers (rather than generic laser quirks)).

Edited by Strum Wealh, 02 May 2015 - 06:51 PM.

[FupDup]

There are two reasons not to hardwire equipment on IS mechs right now:

1. To differentiate their construction from Clan Omnimechs.

2. To avoid making them useless.


Flamers are useless, we don't need more mechs that can't remove them.

[Vassago Rain]

One mech with a hardwired flamer is one mech too many.

[Dukat281]

Hardwired equipment?

Edited by Dukat281, 02 May 2015 - 07:29 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Welcome to the forum, Sanosuke! It's cool that you're writing your first post now after being a member since 2012.

With that being said, the fixed flamer on the Adder is probably the most hated fixed component on any mech in the game, so I do find it a bit amusing that you're suggesting more mechs should have fixed flamers

The quirks are to blame for making Firestarters OP, I think. And PGI has decided they don't want flamers to be good weapons, which I think has to do with technical issues, because there's no rational explanation for including a weapon in the game and then making it worthless. But if PGI changed their mind, I would love to see the Firestarter laser quirks replaced flamer quirks

[Lord0fHats]

While I would never curse any mech to the horrid fate of having a fixed Flammer (that's just trolling seriously), I do wonder why I have yet to see an 8 Flamer firestarter even as a joke mech. Maybe I just don't drop pub que enough

[Glaive-]

Vassago Rain, on 02 May 2015 - 06:38 PM, said:

One mech with a hardwired flamer is one mech too many.

If flamers were somehow made viable would you still say that?

Edited by armyunit, 02 May 2015 - 08:43 PM.

[stjobe]

I dream of a game where every IS 'mech has everything (weapons, equipment, engine, heat sinks, everything) fixed, Clan 'mechs have actual OmniPods that can be switched, and where we use the Field Repair and Refit Rules to customize our 'mechs instead of the BattleMech Construction Rules.

Customization != Construction. Customization = Refit.

[Ragtag soldier]

this thread's funny when you remember that the omni-firestarter has two fixed weapons, and both of them are flamers. in the center torso.

[Sanosuke1221]

I think that if they improve the flamers, it wont break the variants, it just adds to their versatility. Also I dont think having Fixed flamers on the Firestarter would work unless they are improved first. Mostly I want flamers to be more viable and not just a novelty!

[Vassago Rain]

armyunit, on 02 May 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

If flamers were somehow made viable would you still say that?

Yes.

[RAM]

Stock is the simple solution...


RAM
ELH

[MauttyKoray]

FupDup, on 02 May 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Flamers are useless, we don't need more mechs that can't remove them.

What a great joke...oh wait you're being serious?

Can't tell you how many times I've blinded, overheated, or just simply killed enemies with a single flamer.
I do agree that they need to improve the flamers and make them viable to the masses again though. Also, the Firestarter should have 1-2 fixed flamers if they improve them...its a firestarter for ***** sake.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 02 May 2015 - 10:13 PM.

[stjobe]

MauttyKoray, on 02 May 2015 - 10:13 PM, said:

or just simply killed enemies with a single flamer.

I call shenanigans. "A single flamer" has a DPS of 0.7, meaning you'd need 34 seconds to burn your way through the immense CT armour of a stock LCT-1E.

Perhaps you meant "fired a single flamer at them while I killed them with weapons that aren't useless"?

[FupDup]

MauttyKoray, on 02 May 2015 - 10:13 PM, said:

What a great joke...oh wait you're being serious?

Can't tell you how many times I've blinded, overheated, or just simply killed enemies with a single flamer.
I do agree that they need to improve the flamers and make them viable to the masses again though. Also, the Firestarter should have 1-2 fixed flamers if they improve them...its a firestarter for ***** sake.

You can't even overheat people with Flamers, they stop at 90% of the threshold.

Killed people? Lol, they do less damage than an MG.

Blinding is mostly a troll effect.

[FupDup]

stjobe, on 02 May 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

I dream of a game where every IS 'mech has everything (weapons, equipment, engine, heat sinks, everything) fixed, Clan 'mechs have actual OmniPods that can be switched, and where we use the Field Repair and Refit Rules to customize our 'mechs instead of the BattleMech Construction Rules.

Customization != Construction. Customization = Refit.

Then why would anyone use a Battlemech over an Omnimech? Or heck, why would anyone use any of the legion of IS mechs that have SHS stock, or not having Endo, etc, when they can use a Clan mech that does?

The customization construction rules are partly here for a degree of equalization between the mechs and the factions. Stock mechs aren't even remotely created equal, so getting to mod them at least somewhat helps reduce the power gap in most cases (except really bad cases like the Spider 5V that is too hardpoint constrained, it can never be viable without superquirks).

[Troutmonkey]

Is this a buff flamers thread? Because it should be. Damn things are useless.

MG's could do with a slight buff too

[Aurawind]

FupDup, on 02 May 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

There are two reasons not to hardwire equipment on IS mechs right now:

1. To differentiate their construction from Clan Omnimechs.

2. To avoid making them useless.


Flamers are useless, we don't need more mechs that can't remove them.

Do you really think 2 hardwired flamers will really make the Firestarter useless? FFS it has 8 energy hardpoints, more than most assaults and heavies, and it has jump jets, and its also really fast. It makes other lights not worth using, just look at the Wolfhound, same tonnage, same max armor, same max engine, 5 or 6 energy hardpoints, but no jump jets, so why would players take a Wolfhound over a Firestarter?. Firestarter definitely needs to be toned down, but not crippled, 2 flamers will not kill it, its a Firestarter FFS! It's supposed to have flamers! Firestarters would then be able to cause some heat issues to other Mechs at the same time still be able to cause damage.

I do agree that the flamers need a boost, but even right now, Firestarters would be more balanced with the other lights with 2 fixed flamers.

Edited by Aurawind, 03 May 2015 - 07:39 AM.

[Sanosuke1221]

Troutmonkey, on 03 May 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

Is this a buff flamers thread? Because it should be. Damn things are useless.

MG's could do with a slight buff too!

^^Yes they realy need a buff, I would like to have an 8 flamer Firestarter!
Also a Banshee or Wolverine with a flamer(not fixed!) in the mouth would finaly be intimidating!

Edited by Sanosuke1221, 03 May 2015 - 08:07 AM.